Brevets on Rivs -- 2021 Dillon Beach 200k

[Bill Lindsay]

Yesterday was brevet day, and it was my 29th career 200k brevet, but my first on a "road bike".  From the start I've always had one or more "rando builds" from which to choose, and so I've always ridden one of those machines.  I always had mixed feelings towards those randos who strap a bunch of afterthought bags to their carbon road bikes.  Are they cheating on a race bike?  Will they be suffering because of their skinny tires?  This time, with the weather warm, the pavement decent, and the course not too hilly, I decided to give the whole road bike brevet thing a try.  

The field was tiny, allegedly 8 riders.  I only saw five of them at the start; the Escape From Alcatraz Race occupied the parking lot where we intended to start and the volunteer who takes the sign ins couldn't get there in his car.  The six of us were prepared to collect EPP (Electronic Proof of Passage) and started our GPS units and headed out.  Bless his heart the start control volunteer later found me on the route and took my signature there, explaining I wouldn't get credit without having signed the waiver.  

The weather was in the mid 50s and foggy at the start as we crossed the Golden Gate Bridge.  The cross winds that would continue all day were very light in the morning and would be far stronger in the afternoon, which was advantageous.  The course headed mainly into a headwind while the winds were weak and returned with a tailwind while the winds strengthened.  I did most of the ride solo, and I believe I was probably the second finisher.  One rider who went out fast on the first climb of the day, I passed buying mangoes at a fruitstand late in the afternoon.  One rider who blew past me was on a current A Homer Hilsen, and he cheerfully said "Nice Bike!" as his youthful strong legs propelled him down the road.  

My early vintage Roadeo did exceedingly well.  I had a slight panic when I realized that I did not pack gloves, so it was also my first barehanded 200k.  The only inconvenience that ended up causing was it give me another place to apply sunscreen, and with no gloves my slick sunscreened fingers were a little bit slippy on my shellacked bar tape and hoods.  Overall not a big problem.  

From a handling and comfort perspective, the bike was exceptional.  My back, arms and shoulders felt great all day.  Mechanically the bike was perfect.  I don't think I ever needed to use my lowest gear, despite some steep pitches.  I went out pretty fast in the first half but backed off a little on the wind-aided return when I noticed the smell of wildfire smoke in the air.  It was nowhere near the worst I've seen, and the consistent west to east crosswinds certainly helped clean things out for this coastal route.  I finished the 127 miles, 7300ft of climbing in 9:22 actual, 8:37 moving.  Anything under 10 hours is quick for me.  

As per usual, the only things I would change about a Roadeo to make it an even more perfect brevet bike would have been a tiny bit wider tires.  I'm running 700x32 Stampede Pass Extralights, and would have loved to enjoy 35s or 38s.  I still think a semi-custom Roadeo with cantilever brakes and a tiny bit wider clearances would be tremendous.  I'll test that theory by doing my next brevet on my Legolas with 700x35 Bon Jon Pass Extralights, in September.  With the skinny tires, I did notice the bumps, particularly at the end of the day, and my tush was definitely a bit sore with my firm Fizik Arione racing saddle.  It also made me think about those forgotten gloves...  

For a warm weathered, unfendered 200k setup without lighting, I used my Ruthworks Storm Series brevet bag and seat wedge, which provided ample capacity.  Highly recommended bags if you want to 'rando-up' a stripped down bike.  

For nutrition, I carried three Lara Bars and one Nature Valley granola bar.  I had the crunchy granola bar first for "breakfast".  On the course I bought a small cheese twist bread thing in Tomales when I was craving savory.  I emptied somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 large water bottles.  I started with homemade ACV Gatorade, and supplemented on the road with water, a pellegrino, a cold bottled coffee drink and an iced tea.  I finished with one Lara Bar uneaten, and had a salad and some nuts when I got home.  

It was a splendid day on the bike.  I posted a couple photos on instagram @bicyclebubba

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Adam]

Thanks for the report.

I'm curious to hear about your and others' nutrition strategies. I've not ridden a 200k yet but plan to soon. On rides longer than 100k or so, I find that I need eat way more than you describe. I totally over ate on a century a few months ago and got a bit sick post ride(no more pizza!) Since then I've not had time to do another century, but on 50-70 mile rides I've been trying to snack throughout the ride, esp early, and that works for me.

Any suggestions from folks when doing rides long enough to require a meal?

Adam

[Austin B.]

@Bill,

My 2014 Roadeo takes 35mm Bon Jon EL's just fine (mounted to H Plus Son Archetype rims) and the ride is sublime. See photos of clearance below--maybe a different brakes would help? Or perhaps RBW adjusted the clearances at some point.

I've got 38mm Barlow's on my BMC Monstercross which I've been thinking about trying on the Roadeo to see if they fit (I'm due for new tires soon so I'm curious).

Austin

 

[Bill Lindsay]

Adam asked about nutrition:

My particular situation is that I have been a low-carb eater for several years.  I'm not overly zealous about it, but I do find that my body is good at fat burning, so "bonking" is not a thing for me on long rides.  Yesterday, with the three bars I ate (one granola bar and two Larabars) I didn't eat because I was hungry.  It was more like "I'm at 50k, so I probably should put a bar into my face".  I forgot I did also have an ice cream sandwich in Nicasio, when it was ~90 degrees, mainly to cool down a bit.  

On 200k and 300k brevets, if I stop for a meal, it's more to be social, or to stop at some particularly yummy place, or in response to weather.  

Bill

[Bill Lindsay]

I noted that I wished my 32s were 35s at the end of the ride.  Austin responded that his Roadeo takes 35s

I did not mean to suggest my Roadeo doesn't take 35s.  I have the same brakes you have (Velo Orange Gran Cru).  I only meant that's what I was wishing at the end of the ride.  I considered putting the 35s on pre-ride, and didn't.  Perhaps next time I will.  Please do show off if you can fit Barlow Passes into your Roadeo.  My Barlow Passes are sitting on another bike in another location, so I can't do that test.  My Barlow Passes are plump, more like a true 40mm - 41mm.  

My "dream Roadeo" would be a frame that has the light tubing of a Roadeo/Legolas, geometry of a Roadeo, but the clearances of my Hillborne which takes 38s plus fenders.  That's why I think cantilever brakes would be ideal.  The fact is that I have a Roadeo, and a Legolas, and a Hillborne, so it's kind of dumb for me to imagine the combination of all of them.  :)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[John G.]

Here in NJ, where the gravel is scarce but the roads are battered, I tend to grab my Roadeo for longer rides. Those have been scarce this year, what with a newborn, but the Roadeo really is a wonderful brevet bike. The handling is delightful, it climbs like a goat, and even on a slightly-too-small frame, I can ride it happily for hours. I think it's one of the most underrated frames out there--people don't always associate Rivendell with "sportif bikes with elegant handling."

Bill and I have the same ideas about a dream Roadeo. I really need to thin the heard so that I can fund one. I'd gladly pay full custom price for that bike.

[John G.]

Forgot to add: according to Rivendell, the Nobilette-built Roadeos can take a 32 and fender. A Petersen-design, Nobilette-built bike for $2800 is an incredible value in my book. If you're in the market for an exquisite road bike that you will actually ride, the Roadeo is completely worth it IMHO.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi Adam,

--Regarding longer ride nutrition, I like to use Hammer Perpetuem.  I currently make a homemade version, but it is maltodextrin with some soy protein and fat (lecithin).  I add a lot of scoops like 5-6 in one of my water bottles--it has a shake-like consistency-- and it will fuel me for 60-70 miles.  I bring extra packets in ziploc bags to refill, but depending upon heat and pace, I may not stomach them.  You'll need to learn what sounds and feels tasty to you on the later stages of a ride.  I love V8 drinks for the salt/potassium, soups, bread, nuts and fruit do well with me, but you'll need to find out what works for you.

--Bill, I'll probably see you on the Santa Cruz 200k in September.  I'll probably ride my Roadeo.  Maybe I'll see you on your Legolas!

Toshi

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[Touriste-Routier]

John G wrote, " Here in NJ, where the gravel is scarce but the roads are battered "

I'll agree with the 2nd part of the statement and disagree with the first.

You obviously missed my https://www.dirtyjerseyride.com/  No, it isn't L'Eroica or even Unbound, but 38% - 47% gravel (depending on the course) is pretty good for the most densely populated state in the US. 

Brian Ignatin

Pineville, PA 

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 4:08:27 PM UTC-4 John G. wrote:

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

Great report on the Roadeo and your nutrition on the 200K.  One question concerning the performance of the "light weight" Roadeo and your Norther-Lyon which I believe you have set up for and used in brevets.   Do you notice a difference in the 2 other than the high-low trail geometries???

   The L-N uses almost the thinnest standard size tubes (1" TT 7/4/7 & 1-1/8" DT 8/5/8) compared to the Roadeo's 1-1/8" T & 1-1/4" DT of unpublished tube       gauge.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 1:27:32 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

John Hawrylak asked about the difference between my Norther Lyon and my Roadeo.  Specifically, he asked:  "Do you notice a difference in the 2 other than the high-low trail geometries???"

Yes indeed I do.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Toshi

I will look for you.  I've got the Legolas in the stand right now to switch to Bon Jon Pass Extralights, but my perverse contrarian impulse is to leave the 700x38 knobby Steilacooms on there.  A road brevet on knobbies!  That's audacious!  They are even standard casing.  I already did two road brevets this year on 29er mountain bike race tires, despite the fact that people finger wagged at me that I would hate myself for the unnecessary suffering.  The other thing I like about fast knobbies is that it seems they are far more puncture resistant.  There are two reasons for this:

1. When I was a small boy, and my dad helped coach our youth soccer team, he used to call my soccer cleats "Ants got a chance" shoes.  Block knobbies like the Steilacoom seem to me that in order to pick up a piece of glass, you have to roll over it AND hit it with a knob.  Some glass you'll hit the glass with the gap between knobs and you won't pick it up.  

2. Even if you do pick up a piece of glass in a knob, it'll take a while to hammer it in.  The rubber at the knob is quite thick.  If the piece of glass is small, you'll never punch through.  If the piece of glass is big enough that it could punch through, you may hear the tick-tick and wipe it off with the palm of the glove.   

I'll probably put the road tires on, just to avoid the side-eye from the roadies.  :)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Adam]

Thanks for the thoughts on food/drink from everyone. No need to sidetrack the thread, but Bill's list of food made me curious what folks are doing.

I will incorporate more ice cream sandwiches

Adam

[John G.]

Brian I:

I've actually ridden some of those roads when NJ Randonneurs organized a "half-dirty" two years ago. It's absolutely lovely out there, and your official routes look great. Do I spy a pic of Hacklebarney on the event page? I'll be interested in riding it next year.

John H (and others interested in the Roadeo's "performance"): I am fortunate to own a whole stable of what I call "Regular Ass Road Bikes." Midreach rim brakes, chainstays longer than 415mm, HTA and STA under 74 degrees, steel. Most of them are standard diameter Reynolds 531, though I've owned a few OS ones, too. One of them is a Weigle (actually, that one is a mix of standard and OS, I think).

My data suggests I am faster on my Roadeo than all of my Regular Ass Road Bikes except the Weigle, where I tend to be a hair (.3 mph) faster on average. Anecdotally, I find the Roadeo to be the least tiring bike I own, even though it has a relatively aggressive fit. I don't want to get into planing, but for me, the Roadeo is as fast as anything I own. It handles better than the Weigle, FWIW. 

[Eamon Nordquist]

My idea of a dream semi-custom Roadeo would be pretty much the same - canti brakes and the fender/tire clearance of a Sam or Homer. Then it could always have 38mm tires, whether it had fenders on or not. Roadeos are already kind of a dream bike though… ;)

Eamon

Seattle 

[Miles]

Nice write up Bill,

Adam, like you, I find I also need a bit more fuel than what Bill was carrying. For me, electrolytes are crucial, I seem to get cramps pretty easily. I’ve been a big fan of Nuun hydration tabs. 

Food-wise, Clif or Ivan bars are always good, but sometimes I also like to bring a pb&j sandwich, or some other “real” food. I’m guilty of going full gas-station nutrition and eating beef sticks and peanut m&m’s, probably to my detriment. I think my ideal century has a proper lunch stop about halfway through. Maybe a good burrito or a sandwich, and a stretching session before getting back on the road. 

On Monday, August 16, 2021 at 8:48:38 AM UTC-7 Adam wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

I posted last month about doing a brevet on my Roadeo, and I teased about planning to do a September brevet on my Legolas.  Toshi hinted he'd look for me.

Today was brevet day and it all happened as planned.  I did the Santa Cruz Randonneurs Moss Beach 200k in honor of the Centenary of ACP.  I did it on my Legolas, and I did cross paths with Toshi.  I had a 25th Anniversary event to attend Saturday night and so I tried hard to get it done as quickly as possible.  While my Legolas was not the optimal brevet bike, it was very nearly my fastest ever 200k.  I finished in 8:21, but my best ever was 8:18.  It's always cool to do a SCR brevet because they always finish at Bill Bryant and Lois Stevenson's house, and they are RUSA #7 and #8, and are both former RUSA Presidents, so you are in the presence of freaking royalty.  

The Legolas was fast and light, which is good, and I ran 35mm tires, which was great.  The handling was a touch 'nervous' for a brevet, and I wish I had switched out the saddle to one of my known 'all day' models, but these things could have been predicted.  I did have a nice short visit with Toshi (on his Roadeo), which is always good.  

 I got a bad ass medal for finishing a brevet on Centenary Day.  

scene

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Good to see you Bill!  It was a beautiful day and the only issue I had with my small Roadeo is that there isn't much seat to tire clearance (compared to my 650b).  I usually ride with my Mark's wrap, but thought I might need extra space, so I swapped bags with the Banana Sack. I thought there was enough clearance, but things shifted in the bag a bit and with some up and down motion, it was rubbing on my rear wheel. I ended up cinching the bag up with an Irish Strap. Duct tape would have done the job too, but the Irish strap is much prettier!

Bill was speeding along and I got to talk with him because he was stopped in the road waiting for some tree trimmers to open up the lane.  He might have gotten his best time without that delay.  I had my best time on a 200k ever at 8:43.  The beautiful tail wind down the Pacific Coast Highway helped!  

Toshi in Oakland, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

I stopped for an espresso and lemon cake at the first control, and there was kind of a wait at the third control, so minutes were out there to be had.  

Strava had me riding 7 hours and 57 minutes, which included the couple miles at the beginning and end to my van, so I'm pretty happy with that.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Craig Montgomery]

My "dream Roadeo" would be a frame that has the light tubing of a Roadeo/Legolas, geometry of a Roadeo, but the clearances of my Hillborne which takes 38s plus fenders.  That's why I think cantilever brakes would be ideal.  The fact is that I have a Roadeo, and a Legolas, and a Hillborne, so it's kind of dumb for me to imagine the combination of all of them.  :)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

Not really dumb. You just yearn for an "ideal" and it just so happens you have three bikes with one or two characteristics of that "ideal".  I had similar criteria a long time ago. Road bike (not full on touring), reasonably light, fat tires for long distance comfort and making the transition from pavement to hardpack with aplomb. Such an animal didn't exist in the "new" market. So...being dirt poor, I approached the "problem" from a different angle: Vintage. Hence, a '68 Condor handbuilt by Vic Edwards. 531, medium trail (about 50mm),  room for 38's with fenders. What a gem and I saved a whole bunch of cash. When I found it,  Riv was still in Rambouillet mode (beautiful but not much in the meaty tire department). "Fat-tired" road bikes were either French or British handbuilts, usually 700x32/35 or 27x1 1/4 or 3/8.  here really was a lot of diversity in the road bike paradigm back in the 50's-70's. These bikes still exist but you need to immerse yourself in the vintage state of mind and be able to ask sellers the right questions to be sure of clearances. And they're not as cheap as they used to be. Think I paid about $150 for used custom steel back then.  Even then you have to accept that you're not going to get 100% of what you may have wanted. My '68 Volvo was very cool but you still had to keep those dual Strombergs in sync, live with single belt seat belts and no head rests.  

Craig in Tucson

[Ryan Stanis]

Bill,

Alway love to see rivs out on brevets! I have a similar set up to your Roadeo on a Circle A Cycles frame, 32s but with fenders, that is not my go-to rando bike, but I find it a nice change of pace sometimes. Little bit zippier feeling than my larger volume tired alternatives.  Longest i've done on the Circle A was 300k, but am currently improving the build on it to hopefully complete our local SR series again next spring. Have yet to complete a brevet on my Sam Hillborne, but will be taking it on a 100 mile dyno ride down to Cape May NJ, then another 50 miles up to Atlantic City later that day.  Not the best test as the biggest hill will be crossing the Benjamin Franklin Bridge over in to Camden, but will be a nice long time to spend with Sam regardless!

And second your shout out to Ruth Works! Ely makes some great bags, and he was hugely supportive of us as we got our new bike shop off the ground here in Philly!

-Ryan

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