Using a Sam Hillborne as a "go fast-ish" bike
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SeanMac
Mar 25, 2012, 7:13:21 PM3/25/12
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I'm considering pulling the trigger on one of the new blue Sam Hillborne's. They look like really wonderful bikes. Strong, versatile, attractive are words that come to mind when I think about this bike. These are qualities that I find attractive. However, I also like to go fastish. Can I do this with a Sam as well?
I'm pushing 45 years old. A few years ago I had a custom made go-fast bike built for me. That bike goes fast, but is limited in what it can do. I also have a Trek 520 Touring bike. This bike, obviously, is built for touring. Its not very fast, nor very lively. In short, my Trek isn't much fun to ride. I'm looking for a bike to fit in between these two bikes -- one that will be able to carry a few bags and ride on stone dust bike paths (such as the Erie Canal path), but one that will not feel sluggish to ride (like my Trek).
Most of the time, when I see photos of Sams, the bikes seem to be set up to be workhorses -- carrying a collection of bags and racks. I want to be able to do this with a bike (thus the attraction to the bike in the first place). However, I would like to use noodle bars and go on fast-ish club and recreational rides as well. In fact, the vast majority of rides will be 20 - 30 mile "out for fun and exercise" rides. Is the Sam well suited to this as well, or will it likely feel more like my Trek 520? Most likely I would set up a Sam with Noodle bars and tires such as Roly-Poly or Jack Browns.
I'm also considering having a custom built randonneur bike -- one that will be able to carry some load but also feel quick and lively to ride. However, if the Sam will meet my needs, it certainly would be a less expensive alternative. I don't think that my body has any proportions that would make me difficult to fit (5ft, 11 inches tall, PBH 87.5, arm length 35 inches) so I don't think that I need to go custom (though it sure is fun to do so!).
Any thoughts on whether a Sam would be a good choice would be appreciated.
Sean
I'm pushing 45 years old. A few years ago I had a custom made go-fast bike built for me. That bike goes fast, but is limited in what it can do. I also have a Trek 520 Touring bike. This bike, obviously, is built for touring. Its not very fast, nor very lively. In short, my Trek isn't much fun to ride. I'm looking for a bike to fit in between these two bikes -- one that will be able to carry a few bags and ride on stone dust bike paths (such as the Erie Canal path), but one that will not feel sluggish to ride (like my Trek).
Most of the time, when I see photos of Sams, the bikes seem to be set up to be workhorses -- carrying a collection of bags and racks. I want to be able to do this with a bike (thus the attraction to the bike in the first place). However, I would like to use noodle bars and go on fast-ish club and recreational rides as well. In fact, the vast majority of rides will be 20 - 30 mile "out for fun and exercise" rides. Is the Sam well suited to this as well, or will it likely feel more like my Trek 520? Most likely I would set up a Sam with Noodle bars and tires such as Roly-Poly or Jack Browns.
I'm also considering having a custom built randonneur bike -- one that will be able to carry some load but also feel quick and lively to ride. However, if the Sam will meet my needs, it certainly would be a less expensive alternative. I don't think that my body has any proportions that would make me difficult to fit (5ft, 11 inches tall, PBH 87.5, arm length 35 inches) so I don't think that I need to go custom (though it sure is fun to do so!).
Any thoughts on whether a Sam would be a good choice would be appreciated.
Sean
Brian Hanson
Mar 27, 2012, 2:30:49 AM3/27/12
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Sean - I'm the same size and age as you and have a 59cm A Homer Hilsen. I have ridden a 60cm Sam at Riv HQ, and it felt big, but it was set up with very high bars. I would go for a 56cm if you're doing a light go-fast config.
I think a Sam could be set up as a "go-fast", but it will depend on your wheel/component choice. My Homer has had a few different configurations that have ranged from a light-ish (24#) setup sans fenders/rack/lights to its current config as a randonneur. The beauty of the bike is that it has a wide range. You will always find a bike that may be better for one specific config. It sounds like you've found that out.
One of the things I love about my Riv (besides the innate beauty) is that I love modding it. It's a great platform bike that gets reborn about twice a year. I haven't found a purpose it didn't pull off well yet. I have fun building/rebuilding, though, and that's not for everyone.
My $.02...
Brian
Seattle, WA
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charlie
Mar 27, 2012, 2:51:31 AM3/27/12
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I'm in that same frame of mind and height etc. oddly.....I own a fully
decked out Surly Trucker and a Rivendell SimpleOne plus an old Raleigh
that I can rob parts from for a "Sam Hill" making it my go faster
geared bicycle. I enjoy the versatility of the Trucker but I thought
of selling it toward the Atlantis or the "Hunk" since I am 257 right
now but think the "Sam" unloaded might be okay ( I think...what say ye
Grant?) I like lugged steel frames and probably won't buy another
bicycle in my lifetime. So many choices......
> 35 inches) so I don't think that I *need* to go custom (though it sure is
decked out Surly Trucker and a Rivendell SimpleOne plus an old Raleigh
that I can rob parts from for a "Sam Hill" making it my go faster
geared bicycle. I enjoy the versatility of the Trucker but I thought
of selling it toward the Atlantis or the "Hunk" since I am 257 right
now but think the "Sam" unloaded might be okay ( I think...what say ye
Grant?) I like lugged steel frames and probably won't buy another
bicycle in my lifetime. So many choices......
Jay in Tel Aviv
Mar 27, 2012, 5:54:13 AM3/27/12
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Sean,
I just turned 45 and commute on a 56cm Sam pretty much every day.
Commute is 15 miles RT, mostly flat in semi-urban traffic. I am 5'11"
and 165-170 lbs.
With Noodles, 32 mm Supremes and a large saddlebag I average about
18-20 mph on the longer flat sections of my commute, sometimes more or
less depending on wind and how long a day it has been. I typically run
60/80 psi front/rear, full fenders and a cheap/heavy rear rack.
I never had a "go fast" bike to compare with, but I am faster on the
Sam than I was on the Gary Fischer MTB it replaced, and most of the
commuters I see. Guys speeding along on road bike leave me in the dust
most of the time.
Jay
I just turned 45 and commute on a 56cm Sam pretty much every day.
Commute is 15 miles RT, mostly flat in semi-urban traffic. I am 5'11"
and 165-170 lbs.
With Noodles, 32 mm Supremes and a large saddlebag I average about
18-20 mph on the longer flat sections of my commute, sometimes more or
less depending on wind and how long a day it has been. I typically run
60/80 psi front/rear, full fenders and a cheap/heavy rear rack.
I never had a "go fast" bike to compare with, but I am faster on the
Sam than I was on the Gary Fischer MTB it replaced, and most of the
commuters I see. Guys speeding along on road bike leave me in the dust
most of the time.
Jay
Peter Pesce
Mar 27, 2012, 8:03:01 AM3/27/12
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I have a Sam that has been set up a few different ways. Like you, I use the Sam almost exclusively for 20-30 mile fun/exercise rides. I'm not capable of going "fast" by any measure, but my Sam is my "go fastest." bike.
Whether it will feel lively to you is another question. I think the SH is pretty stoutly built, especially with two top tubes. My single TT Sam feels pretty good under my 235 lbs. if you are a lightweight it might feel less so.
As for builds, as an experiment I tried a lightweight build on mine using parts I had around or could acquire cheaply. Using a WTB saddle (not an exotic one, just not a Brooks!) super light 28mm tires, and an older SRAM Rival drivettrain I was able to get the bike to 23 lbs. It still had 36 spoke Dyads with XT hubs on it, so there is still some weight to be saved on wheels if you wanted to.
I guess the point is you could make a go-fast Sam, but it's not really what the bike wants to be. Perhaps a Boulder rando frame or something like a Soma Stanyan would suit you better?
Whether it will feel lively to you is another question. I think the SH is pretty stoutly built, especially with two top tubes. My single TT Sam feels pretty good under my 235 lbs. if you are a lightweight it might feel less so.
As for builds, as an experiment I tried a lightweight build on mine using parts I had around or could acquire cheaply. Using a WTB saddle (not an exotic one, just not a Brooks!) super light 28mm tires, and an older SRAM Rival drivettrain I was able to get the bike to 23 lbs. It still had 36 spoke Dyads with XT hubs on it, so there is still some weight to be saved on wheels if you wanted to.
I guess the point is you could make a go-fast Sam, but it's not really what the bike wants to be. Perhaps a Boulder rando frame or something like a Soma Stanyan would suit you better?
Pete in CT
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Peter Morgano
Mar 27, 2012, 8:17:26 AM3/27/12
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How about the San Marcos, looks like it would suit your needs a bit better than the Sam in my opinion with its lighter weight tubeset and you would still have the option to rack and fender it if you wanted to at some point.
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Bruce Baker
Mar 27, 2012, 8:38:14 AM3/27/12
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Sean,
I have had a Sam Hillborne for a couple of years and 2000 miles or so. I have ridden alot of bikes but I wouldn't say the Sam is a go fastish bike. The Sam is smooth, comfortable and is the most comfortable riding bike I have ever had but not go fastish..
Bruce
I have had a Sam Hillborne for a couple of years and 2000 miles or so. I have ridden alot of bikes but I wouldn't say the Sam is a go fastish bike. The Sam is smooth, comfortable and is the most comfortable riding bike I have ever had but not go fastish..
Bruce
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Minh
Mar 27, 2012, 10:37:09 AM3/27/12
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I have to agree with others. It souns like a San Marcos is a better fit. I have a Sam and would never ride it with less then 35mm tires, it feels more like a country bike to me. Now I do go fast on my Sam but its usually downhill!
Adam
Mar 27, 2012, 10:40:19 AM3/27/12
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When I have my Sam set up without racks and noodles it goes fastish. A
light wheel set makes all the difference in my mind. With that set up
I can keep up with my slower roadie friends.
It is a wonderfully versatile bike as I have also thrown racks on and
toured for weeks on end. That said you already have a dedicated tourer
in the 520 so that might not be such a selling point.
Going to ride my lightish setup in my first randonuer event at the San
Francisco populaire this weekend. I imagine it'll be plenty fast
enough.
Hope this is helpful somehow.
Good luck,
Adam
> 35 inches) so I don't think that I *need* to go custom (though it sure is
light wheel set makes all the difference in my mind. With that set up
I can keep up with my slower roadie friends.
It is a wonderfully versatile bike as I have also thrown racks on and
toured for weeks on end. That said you already have a dedicated tourer
in the 520 so that might not be such a selling point.
Going to ride my lightish setup in my first randonuer event at the San
Francisco populaire this weekend. I imagine it'll be plenty fast
enough.
Hope this is helpful somehow.
Good luck,
Adam
RJM
Mar 27, 2012, 11:07:43 AM3/27/12
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I did a ride last night on my Sam, 19 mph average for about 22 miles, fairly flat. I have it set up with bar end friction shifters, noodles, pari moto tires on 36 spoke, velocity dyad/phil rivy 7 speed hub wheels. I wouldn't say it is a go fast bike, but if you want to push it you certainly can on the Sam. I couldn't keep up with the fast group on the ride, but I did pull a small paceline at that speed. I don't really consider that fast though, and the Roadies generally go faster than that.
Frankly, I have been looking hard at a Roadeo for these kinds of rides. I really wonder what the speed difference would be.
PATRICK MOORE
Mar 27, 2012, 11:48:32 AM3/27/12
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I owned a single tt Sam, 56 cm, for a few months before I decided I
didn't like the way it handled (mostly with a load: I hated the way it
wandered all over the road when twiddling seated up a steep hill with
a rear load). But my taste in handling apart, it is a wonderfully
versatile bike good for commuting, errands, touring (tho' the tubing
is not as stout as that of a full-on touring bike) and firm dirt
roads. I also own two custom riv road bikes (and sold an earlier one
some years ago). and I must say that, in comparison, the Sam is not a
go fast bike. Of course, much depends on your wheels and tires, but
IMO (5'10", 175, 57) the tubing is just too stout for that light steel
tubing feel, and the top tube too long, at least for someone of my
height, to get the bars low enough for the kind of fast riding I like.
I imagine that, with a second tt, the frame might feel even less
"supple".
didn't like the way it handled (mostly with a load: I hated the way it
wandered all over the road when twiddling seated up a steep hill with
a rear load). But my taste in handling apart, it is a wonderfully
versatile bike good for commuting, errands, touring (tho' the tubing
is not as stout as that of a full-on touring bike) and firm dirt
roads. I also own two custom riv road bikes (and sold an earlier one
some years ago). and I must say that, in comparison, the Sam is not a
go fast bike. Of course, much depends on your wheels and tires, but
IMO (5'10", 175, 57) the tubing is just too stout for that light steel
tubing feel, and the top tube too long, at least for someone of my
height, to get the bars low enough for the kind of fast riding I like.
I imagine that, with a second tt, the frame might feel even less
"supple".
But if I had room and money and miles for another bike, I'd have kept
the Sam for a recreational, unloaded/light load pavement-cum-dirt
rambler.
Patrick "just enjoyed the gofast feel of my '99 Joe Starck custom 650C
fixie" Moore
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Burton
Mar 27, 2012, 9:27:04 PM3/27/12
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I think of my 650B Sam as a Volvo station wagon.
I don't really know for going fast, but as my commute bike I always
thought the Sam was relatively fast. I could squeeze out my 25 mile
commute in just a smudge under an hour and fifteen minutes, fully
loaded with laptop, tools, clothes, whatever. That's if I was
motivated to get home in time for dinner.
Then I rode a real go fast bike for the first time--a mid 80s custom
Bruce Gordon race bike. That thing felt like a Porsche 911 to my Sam
Volvo 240. Now, my favorite car ever was a 240, but I never thought of
it as fastish.
I don't really know for going fast, but as my commute bike I always
thought the Sam was relatively fast. I could squeeze out my 25 mile
commute in just a smudge under an hour and fifteen minutes, fully
loaded with laptop, tools, clothes, whatever. That's if I was
motivated to get home in time for dinner.
Then I rode a real go fast bike for the first time--a mid 80s custom
Bruce Gordon race bike. That thing felt like a Porsche 911 to my Sam
Volvo 240. Now, my favorite car ever was a 240, but I never thought of
it as fastish.
Darin G.
Mar 27, 2012, 10:51:18 PM3/27/12
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I own one of the original green Sams, 56. I'm very close to you in height and build. 5'10", PBH 87. I run Mavic A719s with Jack Brown Blue tires. This bike is a wonderful commuter, set up with Noodles and a small front rack and large rear. I have done two centuries on it. I also have a Romulus. The difference between the two bikes is not nuanced and the Rom is my definite go-to bike when I'm just on a ride and don't need to carry more than will fit in a small saddlebag (Carradice Barley).
Interestingly, when the Sam first came out Rivendell compared it to the Homer and suggested they were essentially the same, function-wise. Elsewhere Rivendell claimed the Homer was essentially the same as a Rambouillet (an upscale Romulus), ride-wise, with the only difference between the two being the Homer's ability to run wider tires. My experience with the Romulus and the Sam is that there is a lot more space between the two than you would be led to believe by their promotional material. Now, I haven't ridden a Homer, but if its biases lean towards the Ram/Rom end of the spectrum, that might be THE ONE.
The Sam is a wonderful bike, comfortable, steady, and true. I just wouldn't call it fastish, and if you have a true touring bike I think you'll find it very similar to what you already have.
D.G.
cyclotourist
Mar 27, 2012, 11:06:53 PM3/27/12
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There are Volvo station wagons, and then there are Volvo station wagons...Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA
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David
Redlands, CA
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charlie
Mar 27, 2012, 11:10:15 PM3/27/12
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This is odd....I own a mid 80's race bike Flandria built with Campy
parts and skinny 25mm tires. I think it tips the scale at around 22
pounds but the frame is way too light for me and the tires too narrow.
On smooth flat pavement its pretty fast but honestly I don't think any
faster than one of my heavier 26 ish pound 32-35mm tire width
machines. It seems most of any speed increase I've experienced is due
to position rather than weight. I can tell you that my recumbent is
fully 3-5 mph faster than any upright I've ever ridden now matter how
low the bars or how uncomfortable I am on it. I'm just not sure what
is actually meant by a "go fast bicycle". I would think that a 16
pound racer with low bars to be the cats meow in that department but
I'll almost bet a Roadeo with the bars at the same height is just as
fast until maybe you get to a steep climb. But honestly does five
pounds make that much difference? Are we talking a 1/2 mph gain on the
flats or only faster climbing or what? Has anyone done any real
testing over several years and many rides with several different
configured bicycles not to mention allowing for weather and energy
levels etc? I know Grant has written of some climbing time differences
using several bicycles but I wonder what a study of say 200 exact
rides over two years would tell us....?
parts and skinny 25mm tires. I think it tips the scale at around 22
pounds but the frame is way too light for me and the tires too narrow.
On smooth flat pavement its pretty fast but honestly I don't think any
faster than one of my heavier 26 ish pound 32-35mm tire width
machines. It seems most of any speed increase I've experienced is due
to position rather than weight. I can tell you that my recumbent is
fully 3-5 mph faster than any upright I've ever ridden now matter how
low the bars or how uncomfortable I am on it. I'm just not sure what
is actually meant by a "go fast bicycle". I would think that a 16
pound racer with low bars to be the cats meow in that department but
I'll almost bet a Roadeo with the bars at the same height is just as
fast until maybe you get to a steep climb. But honestly does five
pounds make that much difference? Are we talking a 1/2 mph gain on the
flats or only faster climbing or what? Has anyone done any real
testing over several years and many rides with several different
configured bicycles not to mention allowing for weather and energy
levels etc? I know Grant has written of some climbing time differences
using several bicycles but I wonder what a study of say 200 exact
rides over two years would tell us....?
PATRICK MOORE
Mar 27, 2012, 11:26:44 PM3/27/12
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charlie
Mar 28, 2012, 12:08:10 AM3/28/12
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Makes sense to me as well.....Being 257 I'd probably come in about 25
minutes slower in the climb the article mentioned. That settles it,
I'm losing my racing fantasies right now plus I'd probably break one
of those lightweight road bikes anyway.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
minutes slower in the climb the article mentioned. That settles it,
I'm losing my racing fantasies right now plus I'd probably break one
of those lightweight road bikes anyway.
Ablejack
Mar 28, 2012, 3:02:04 AM3/28/12
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I'd go with a (lugged) Boulder Bike Randonneur for a comfortable and speedy "off the rack" bike. But I just told a friend to look into the Sam (looking for an all-rounder/S24O bike) and BOOM, he ordered one!
Also the pretty blue Sam w/ cream headtube is currently at a pre-order discount (same price as the green). It will go up to new price when the first 45 or so are sold.
/Saluki rider. (48yo) Fast enough for me!
Joe Bernard
Mar 28, 2012, 4:38:04 AM3/28/12
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The Homer/Romulus comparison is accurate. I've owned both, and they felt practically identical.
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.
jtallman
Mar 27, 2012, 2:40:54 PM3/27/12
to RBW Owners Bunch
Sean,
I have a 56 Hillborne, single top tube, that I have had for nearly 3
years. For the first 2 years it was set up with a touring wheelset,
fenders, kickstand, front and rear nitto racks to hold small and large
trunksacks. Before buying the Hillborne, I test rode a Novara
Randonee and a Cannondale T1. Both rode like touring bikes, which is
what I expected. I decided to buy the Hillborne without ever riding
it, or seeing it. The Hillborne feels much sportier than either of
the touring models I tried.
Early last spring I made the mistake of weighing my Hillborne.
Without bags it weighed close to 30 pounds. I decided to try to make
it a slimmer, go faster bike. I removed the fenders, kickstand, and
racks. Mounted lighter 32 tires instead of the heavier 35s I had been
using. I think it dropped down to around 25 pounds, and maybe I felt
just a little faster. Within a few weeks I had reinstalled the
fenders and the kickstand.
The biggest change in speed was a change in wheelset. I moved the
touring wheelset to a Hunqapillar last May and got Ultegra hubs laced
to Open Pro rims for my Hillborne. This made a noticeable
difference. I also have since added 35 Marathon Supremes. My
Hillborne is my gofast bike, though the only racing I do is with my
shadow.
Based on the other bikes you have, it sounds like a Hilsen, or
possibly even a Roadeo, could be considered.
Good luck in your search.
Jon
I have a 56 Hillborne, single top tube, that I have had for nearly 3
years. For the first 2 years it was set up with a touring wheelset,
fenders, kickstand, front and rear nitto racks to hold small and large
trunksacks. Before buying the Hillborne, I test rode a Novara
Randonee and a Cannondale T1. Both rode like touring bikes, which is
what I expected. I decided to buy the Hillborne without ever riding
it, or seeing it. The Hillborne feels much sportier than either of
the touring models I tried.
Early last spring I made the mistake of weighing my Hillborne.
Without bags it weighed close to 30 pounds. I decided to try to make
it a slimmer, go faster bike. I removed the fenders, kickstand, and
racks. Mounted lighter 32 tires instead of the heavier 35s I had been
using. I think it dropped down to around 25 pounds, and maybe I felt
just a little faster. Within a few weeks I had reinstalled the
fenders and the kickstand.
The biggest change in speed was a change in wheelset. I moved the
touring wheelset to a Hunqapillar last May and got Ultegra hubs laced
to Open Pro rims for my Hillborne. This made a noticeable
difference. I also have since added 35 Marathon Supremes. My
Hillborne is my gofast bike, though the only racing I do is with my
shadow.
Based on the other bikes you have, it sounds like a Hilsen, or
possibly even a Roadeo, could be considered.
Good luck in your search.
Jon
danmc
Mar 27, 2012, 1:29:53 PM3/27/12
to RBW Owners Bunch
I had a 56 Sam STT and for me it was definitely more of a country
bike than a go fast-ish bike. Started with roly-polys and Noodles but
the tires just felt too narrow. Switched to Marathons then threw in
the towel. I ended up getting a Ram as the go fast-ish and saving the
pennies for the AHH as a country bike.
The San Marcos seems like a good option. It is not a touring bike but
can take racks and carry a small-ish load. Designed for 32-35mm tires.
Lighter tubing than the Sam or AHH so will probably feel more
responsive.
Good luck in the search.
Dan
> 35 inches) so I don't think that I *need* to go custom (though it sure is
bike than a go fast-ish bike. Started with roly-polys and Noodles but
the tires just felt too narrow. Switched to Marathons then threw in
the towel. I ended up getting a Ram as the go fast-ish and saving the
pennies for the AHH as a country bike.
The San Marcos seems like a good option. It is not a touring bike but
can take racks and carry a small-ish load. Designed for 32-35mm tires.
Lighter tubing than the Sam or AHH so will probably feel more
responsive.
Good luck in the search.
Dan
Darin G.
Mar 28, 2012, 12:20:49 PM3/28/12
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Joe,
Good to know. No plans to get one right now, but if I'm relieved to learn that if I am separated from the Rom by some misfortune or force majeure that there is a worthy replacement.
D.G.
SeanMac
Mar 28, 2012, 3:24:47 PM3/28/12
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com, Sean McAtee
I really do appreciate everyone for sharing their thoughts on this topic. It seems as though most people who have a Sam mostly use it for carrying a bag or two. However, if one desired, it is possible, given the proper wheels and tires, to make this bike a go-fastish bike, though this is probably not the ideal use of a Sam.
Since I already have a narrow tire (25 mm max) bike, I have not need for another bike like that. From what I have read, it seems that a Homer may tend toward the faster end of the spectrum, while a Sam is more on the slower/load carrying end of the spectrum. The San Marcos would be the budget choice that fits between the Homer and the Sam - with the faster feel of a Homer while a bit less load carrying ability than the Sam.
Does the Bleriot fit closer to a Sam or closer to a San Marcos? I like the single top tube of the Bleriot, but did the Bleriot only come in 650B wheel size?
Since I can put together nearly an entire ready-to-ride bike (Sam or San Marcos) for the price of a custom frame alone, it seems like one of those bikes may be the budget conscious choice for me.
The other option, of course, is to jump on a great deal on a used bike. Truth be told, if there was cash on hand, that probably would already have been done! This is where I really appreciate the layaway option that Rivendell is currently providing. That plan makes it a bit easier to obtain a new frame from Riv World Headquarters.
Sean
Since I already have a narrow tire (25 mm max) bike, I have not need for another bike like that. From what I have read, it seems that a Homer may tend toward the faster end of the spectrum, while a Sam is more on the slower/load carrying end of the spectrum. The San Marcos would be the budget choice that fits between the Homer and the Sam - with the faster feel of a Homer while a bit less load carrying ability than the Sam.
Does the Bleriot fit closer to a Sam or closer to a San Marcos? I like the single top tube of the Bleriot, but did the Bleriot only come in 650B wheel size?
Since I can put together nearly an entire ready-to-ride bike (Sam or San Marcos) for the price of a custom frame alone, it seems like one of those bikes may be the budget conscious choice for me.
The other option, of course, is to jump on a great deal on a used bike. Truth be told, if there was cash on hand, that probably would already have been done! This is where I really appreciate the layaway option that Rivendell is currently providing. That plan makes it a bit easier to obtain a new frame from Riv World Headquarters.
Sean
qwerty
Mar 28, 2012, 9:56:56 PM3/28/12
to wrom...@optonline.net, rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Hi Will,
Your component discription is the only time I've heard of anyone
sucsessfully using clamp on downtube shifters on a Sam. Could you
please provide more information regarding this dt shifter setup? My
previous impression was that the vintage clamp bands wouldn't fit the
larger diameter downtube on the Sam.
The lack of down tube shifter brazeons on the Sam has been the
greatest drawback for me in considering this frame. It would be nice
to know of a workable solution for future possibilities..
Thanks,
Mike
On 3/27/12, Will <wrom...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Sean: I think a Sam would be a great choice for your needs. I'm of similar
> mind and size: 46 years, 6'1" with a 88 pbh. I ride a 60 Sam. Its a little
> tight when standing over it but i dont do that much. When I'm in the saddle
> its the most comfortable bike I've ever had. Right now I've got it set up
> pretty light and fast. No fenders or racks. Just my brand v saddle bag.
> Clamp on downtube shifters and Specialized Infinity 38 tires. Going with
> Kojaks (35s) when it gets more summery. I've had it built up heavy too. It's
> such a great platform. I love experimenting with it. There's so many ways to
> set it up. I'm so enthralled with my orange, single tt, canti braked version
> that I went ahead and signed on for the new bleu 2tt, side pull. I'm looking
> forward to the ease of use and set up of the side pull brakes and at my size
> the second top tube can't hurt. All that PLUS the fancy paint? I like the
> way Grant and Riv do things. It's a great deal. I would think that if you
> get one it will become your favorite. It can be your go fast and everything
> your other bikes do too!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Rksd7VXqV8sJ.
Message has been deleted
Way Rebb
Mar 29, 2012, 12:39:36 AM3/29/12
to RBW Owners Bunch
Hillborne is a complete dog going to work. It wants to head to the
hills, the creek, down random streets it's never been down before, the
ocean 40 miles away...anywhere but work! Takes all my bike whispering
skills to keep it pointed in the right direction. Now, going home is
a different story. The thing's a rocket! I hear shrieks from those
helium filled plastic bikes as Hillborne blurs by, fenders and all. I
can barely hang on. Whoosh...
hills, the creek, down random streets it's never been down before, the
ocean 40 miles away...anywhere but work! Takes all my bike whispering
skills to keep it pointed in the right direction. Now, going home is
a different story. The thing's a rocket! I hear shrieks from those
helium filled plastic bikes as Hillborne blurs by, fenders and all. I
can barely hang on. Whoosh...
Message has been deleted
Bill M.
Mar 30, 2012, 8:03:11 PM3/30/12
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
"Fastish club ride" around here pretty much means fit riders on racing frames with skinny tires and no more luggage than a spare tube and a CO2 cartridge, going hell-bent-for leather. I wouldn't use a Sam for that kind of riding, that's why Riv sells Roadeos, and why I keep a dedicated go-fast in the stable. It sounds to me like the Roadeo would fit your needs the best from the Riv line, and should be a fine combination randonneuse, sporty club bike and (on widish tires like the JB's) unpaved path runner. I wouldn't load it with more than a medium sized saddlebag and a smallish handlebar bag, though. I would treat most custom rando bikes similarly, the choice there is whether you want a French-style low-trail geometry for carrying more of a front load, or Riv's more traditional English-style geometry that would favor using a saddlebag for any significant load. Keep the Trek for carrying real touring / shopping loads.
If cost is a factor there are other options, but this is the Riv list so I won't plug them here.
Bill
On Sunday, March 25, 2012 4:13:21 PM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
I'm considering pulling the trigger on one of the new blue Sam Hillborne's. They look like really wonderful bikes. Strong, versatile, attractive are words that come to mind when I think about this bike. These are qualities that I find attractive. However, I also like to go fastish. Can I do this with a Sam as well?
I'm pushing 45 years old. A few years ago I had a custom made go-fast bike built for me. That bike goes fast, but is limited in what it can do. I also have a Trek 520 Touring bike. This bike, obviously, is built for touring. Its not very fast, nor very lively. In short, my Trek isn't much fun to ride. I'm looking for a bike to fit in between these two bikes -- one that will be able to carry a few bags and ride on stone dust bike paths (such as the Erie Canal path), but one that will not feel sluggish to ride (like my Trek).
Most of the time, when I see photos of Sams, the bikes seem to be set up to be workhorses -- carrying a collection of bags and racks. I want to be able to do this with a bike (thus the attraction to the bike in the first place). However, I would like to use noodle bars and go on fast-ish club and recreational rides as well. In fact, the vast majority of rides will be 20 - 30 mile "out for fun and exercise" rides. Is the Sam well suited to this as well, or will it likely feel more like my Trek 520? Most likely I would set up a Sam with Noodle bars and tires such as Roly-Poly or Jack Browns.
I'm also considering having a custom built randonneur bike -- one that will be able to carry some load but also feel quick and lively to ride. However, if the Sam will meet my needs, it certainly would be a less expensive alternative. I don't think that my body has any proportions that would make me difficult to fit (5ft, 11 inches tall, PBH 87.5, arm length 35 inches) so I don't think that I need to go custom (though it sure is fun to do so!).
SeanMac
Mar 31, 2012, 11:28:03 PM3/31/12
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I have spent the last few days reading a lot about Sam Hillborne! It seems clear that people really do love this bike. Sam seems like a bike that can do many things, though perhaps it is best suited to being somewhat of a workhorse bike - taking people and their gear to work, around town, or out into the country for a leisurely ride. However, it does not seem made to be a fast bike; rather, a comfortable bike that can be set up to go "fast-ish," if one really wanted to do so.
As I try to really analyze what I need a bike to do I've tried to really think about the riding that I do and the bikes that I have. The majority of my riding is relatively fastish recreational / fitness riding. I do ride with some groups on occasion, but a typical ride is 1 to 3 hours. I hope to do more rides of the 50 mile plus variety, but typically I do this only a few times a year. For this purpose, my custom go fast bike (with maximum 25 mm tires) works pretty well.
I also have a 1993 Trek 520 touring bike. Set up with Honjo fenders, this bike currently cannot fit tires more than 28 mm. I had the bike out the other day and was somewhat surprised by the quality of ride. Once it go up to speed (which took some work) it felt pretty good, almost quick, in fact. This bike is designed to carry bags and gear for extended rides on the road. I use it for that purpose every few years, but typically it is a bike I ride on wet roads or early in the spring or fall when I want to keep my custom-built go fast bike clean.
So, I continue trying to figure out what bike would best fit between these two. I'm somewhat torn between a go fastish Rambo bike (which seems best suited for road riding), or a not so fast bike (Sam Hillborne) that has the advantage of being able to carry more weight than a rambo bike and also be able to handle a bit more rugged terrain, such as the stone dust found on my local bike trails (like the Erie Canal Pathway). The Sam also seems to be better suited for a riding around town and/or commute to work bike, both of which also are points in Sam's favor.
As you can probably tell, I really do seem to be leaning toward a Sam. I do like the new blue color (though I am not sold on the double top tube). I also like the the new Sam's use sidepull brakes, as I am not a huge fan of canti's.
Does my reasoning make sense? Now, if I can only decide which handlebar to try. I've never ridding on anything but traditional bars (noodles and the like), but the Sam does seem to call for something else. I'm really intrigued by moustache bars, but don't really know if I'm willing to go so far outside of my comfort zone (though a double top tube is already outside of that zone - perhaps its better to leap into new territory with this bike!) What is the consensus on the ideal handlebar for the Sam?
Thanks,
Sean
On Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:13:21 PM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
As I try to really analyze what I need a bike to do I've tried to really think about the riding that I do and the bikes that I have. The majority of my riding is relatively fastish recreational / fitness riding. I do ride with some groups on occasion, but a typical ride is 1 to 3 hours. I hope to do more rides of the 50 mile plus variety, but typically I do this only a few times a year. For this purpose, my custom go fast bike (with maximum 25 mm tires) works pretty well.
I also have a 1993 Trek 520 touring bike. Set up with Honjo fenders, this bike currently cannot fit tires more than 28 mm. I had the bike out the other day and was somewhat surprised by the quality of ride. Once it go up to speed (which took some work) it felt pretty good, almost quick, in fact. This bike is designed to carry bags and gear for extended rides on the road. I use it for that purpose every few years, but typically it is a bike I ride on wet roads or early in the spring or fall when I want to keep my custom-built go fast bike clean.
So, I continue trying to figure out what bike would best fit between these two. I'm somewhat torn between a go fastish Rambo bike (which seems best suited for road riding), or a not so fast bike (Sam Hillborne) that has the advantage of being able to carry more weight than a rambo bike and also be able to handle a bit more rugged terrain, such as the stone dust found on my local bike trails (like the Erie Canal Pathway). The Sam also seems to be better suited for a riding around town and/or commute to work bike, both of which also are points in Sam's favor.
As you can probably tell, I really do seem to be leaning toward a Sam. I do like the new blue color (though I am not sold on the double top tube). I also like the the new Sam's use sidepull brakes, as I am not a huge fan of canti's.
Does my reasoning make sense? Now, if I can only decide which handlebar to try. I've never ridding on anything but traditional bars (noodles and the like), but the Sam does seem to call for something else. I'm really intrigued by moustache bars, but don't really know if I'm willing to go so far outside of my comfort zone (though a double top tube is already outside of that zone - perhaps its better to leap into new territory with this bike!) What is the consensus on the ideal handlebar for the Sam?
Thanks,
Sean
On Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:13:21 PM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
I'm considering pulling the trigger on one of the new blue Sam Hillborne's. They look like really wonderful bikes. Strong, versatile, attractive are words that come to mind when I think about this bike. These are qualities that I find attractive. However, I also like to go fastish. Can I do this with a Sam as well?
I'm pushing 45 years old. A few years ago I had a custom made go-fast bike built for me. That bike goes fast, but is limited in what it can do. I also have a Trek 520 Touring bike. This bike, obviously, is built for touring. Its not very fast, nor very lively. In short, my Trek isn't much fun to ride. I'm looking for a bike to fit in between these two bikes -- one that will be able to carry a few bags and ride on stone dust bike paths (such as the Erie Canal path), but one that will not feel sluggish to ride (like my Trek).
Most of the time, when I see photos of Sams, the bikes seem to be set up to be workhorses -- carrying a collection of bags and racks. I want to be able to do this with a bike (thus the attraction to the bike in the first place). However, I would like to use noodle bars and go on fast-ish club and recreational rides as well. In fact, the vast majority of rides will be 20 - 30 mile "out for fun and exercise" rides. Is the Sam well suited to this as well, or will it likely feel more like my Trek 520? Most likely I would set up a Sam with Noodle bars and tires such as Roly-Poly or Jack Browns.
I'm also considering having a custom built randonneur bike -- one that will be able to carry some load but also feel quick and lively to ride. However, if the Sam will meet my needs, it certainly would be a less expensive alternative. I don't think that my body has any proportions that would make me difficult to fit (5ft, 11 inches tall, PBH 87.5, arm length 35 inches) so I don't think that I need to go custom (though it sure is fun to do so!).
Any thoughts on whether a Sam would be a good choice would be appreciated.
Sean
Ablejack
Apr 1, 2012, 2:45:34 PM4/1/12
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I think at the end of a 50 mile day, you'd be happier on a Sam with 38mm tires than the "go-fast" bike with 25mm. You will find the bike plenty quick and the 38 (even forty) will serve to smooth out the roads rather than slow you down. It is argued that on most roads you will actually be more efficient (faster!) with the wider tires because there will be less vibration through your body. You will be able to produce more power than you do on a tight frame with rocks for wheels. Even Pros ride 29mm on the Paris-Roubaix to ride faster, not to be more "comfy". The argument for the AHH is that it is constructed with lighter tubing than the Sam and may you offer a "planing" feel where a little flexiness translates into speed as the frame loads up with static forces. But the Sam is not made from heavy (Atlantis, Bombadil) tubing either, it is an all-rounder, not really a "work-horse".
Besides, it is kind of fun to be the guy on a rando easily pacing with the group of racing bikes. People think you're a monster but there is no real handicap. Team Racers are stuck with high pressure skinny tires because that's what teams give them. Although it is being more recognized to have more volume these days.
Peter Pesce
Apr 1, 2012, 5:19:24 PM4/1/12
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I doubt there's an ideal bar for s Sam, as there is no "ideal" build for a Sam. The versatility is the virtue. If you want to sit up and watch the scenery, and Albatross or similar would be great. For fast-ish road riding it's hard to beat drops. Wide Noodles with interrupter levers feel especially nice riding around on the tops. Good for your towpath rides. Almost makes your bike seem like it has drops AND flat bars. In the middle would be Moustache and the like.
Sounds to me like it would help you to think a bit more about the line between when you'd ride the Sam and when you'd ride your custom roadie. Since you have the top end of the performance spectrum covered, I wouldn't push the Sam to be something it doesn't want to be. It can fill an awful lot of ground in the middle, but isn't the best choice for either of the extremes.
Pete in CT
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