Shimano bar-end shifters & Albatross bars for commuting

[WETH]

Background (may be skipped as it may not be fully relevant to answering the question and is quite wordy):
I purchased albatross bars for a bike my son and I are repainting and building up for him.  While waiting for him to select a frame color, I mounted the albatross bars on my daily commuter (a Surly LHT with riv purchased racks and Rivendell sackville bags).  I was running trekking bars with grip shifters, which I liked well-enough for my 16 mile round trip commute, but I found them less comfortable on longer rides.  I really like the albatross bars and am considering making them permanent.  (I will have to purchase a 2nd pair from Rivendell for my son's bike!)  However, my most aggressive riding occurs while I am commuting; it is an urban commute on roads with buses, aggressive commuters and clueless pedestrians.  I shift gears excessively on the 7 speed cassette using the gripshifters.  I often am quickly index shifting through 6-7 gears as I rapidly approach a stoplight. (I stop at all red lights.)  I like to start up from the easiest gear and up/down shift through the gears as needed.  Often, I am quickly shifting to keep pace with the traffic.  Given the heavy vehicle traffic, I like to maintain as consistent/predictable a presence as possible, which usually requires both hands on the handlebars.  I am considering replacing the gripshifts on the albatross bars with Shimano bar-end shifters sold by Rivendell.  The grip shifters feel and look a bit strange on the Albatross bars--though they work fine.  However, I have never used bar-end shifters, only thumb (index), grip (index) and downtube (friction).   If you are patiently still reading, here is my question.

Question:  For those who use or have used  the Shimano bar-end shifters, especially on Albatross bars, how easy is it to index shift rapidly across several gears on the rear cassette?  Is it as easy as moving the lever up or down the needed number of clicks? (On my gripshift, index shifting, one click equals one sprocket change on the cassette.)  Are the Shimano bar-end shifters durable enough to take somewhat rough handling every day?  (I think I have read about a washer cracking easily.)  As I mentioned, I ride hard on my commute.  I do not mean to insinuate that the shifters are not of good quality, it is just that I am quite hard on my gear when commuting.  Hence, the Surly LHT with 26 x 2.35 tires.  Specifically I would be using the shifter set compatible with a 6-7-8 speed cassette. 

As always I appreciate and always benefit from the individual and collective wisdom of this group.  I apologize for the wordiness of this post.
Many thanks,
Erl

[rcnute]

The combination works great.

The plastic outer covers can crack but the shifters will continue to work just fine.

Ryan

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-03-27 at 15:41 -0700, WETH wrote:
>
> Question: For those who use or have used the Shimano bar-end
> shifters, especially on Albatross bars, how easy is it to index shift
> rapidly across several gears on the rear cassette? Is it as easy as
> moving the lever up or down the needed number of clicks?

Yes, exactly. You can sweep the entire block, if you like.

> (On my gripshift, index shifting, one click equals one sprocket change
> on the cassette.) Are the Shimano bar-end shifters durable enough to
> take somewhat rough handling every day?

What kind of "rough handling" could a bar end shifter get? Dropping the
bike on it? Beating it with a hammer? Ordinary shifting is in no way
"rough."

> I think I have read about a washer cracking easily.) As I mentioned,
> I ride hard on my commute. I do not mean to insinuate that the
> shifters are not of good quality, it is just that I am quite hard on
> my gear when commuting.

What do you mean by "hard on my gear"?

> Hence, the Surly LHT with 26 x 2.35 tires. Specifically I would be
> using the shifter set compatible with a 6-7-8 speed cassette.

There is no one shifter set compatible with 6, 7 and 8. I've never seen
an indexed 6 and I'm not sure they ever existed. Indexed 7 speed bar
ends definitely existed, but they're quite rare now. You can get new
stock (possibly new old stock) 8 speed indexed bar end shifters on ebay
quite easily.

[WETH]

Ryan and Steve, thank you for your responses.
Steve, the bike takes a tumble on a monthly basis (I am a teacher and park my bike in the classroom; at home the dogs and children manage to knock it over regularly). In regard to index shifting on a 6 and 7, here is the product write up from the rivendell site:"Shimano's best bar-end shifters,the Dura-Ace's are indexable only with 9-speed cassettes; the Ultegras index good enough with 6, 7, or 8 speed cassettes and both work with a friction mode, too----so if the "good enough" isn't good enough, throw it into friction, cowboy, and ride away. "
I will definitely have to make sure they are compatable with my 7 speed cassette. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Safe cycling,
Erl

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hey Erl,

If you're comfortable with friction (from your downtube shifting days), then you may want to go with friction for bar ends. You won't have to worry about setting up indexing, which could mean a little more tweaking to make it index properly. Also, you won't have to worry about getting compatible parts for indexing. You may even like it better than click-click-clicking.

Good luck, sho

[Joe Bernard]

I've indexed 8-speed bar-ends with 7-speed cassttes easy peasy, but agree with Shoji that Silver Power Ratchets are the bee's knees for rifling up and down a 7-speed. You never quite know which cog you're going to stop at, but you almost always land right square on a good one. Try it for a while, then go back to indexing. You'll be surprised how clunky and archaic it will feel. In my opinion, of course...

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-03-27 at 17:45 -0700, WETH wrote:
> Ryan and Steve, thank you for your responses.

> Steve, the bike takes a tumble on a monthly basis (I am a teacher and
> park my bike in the classroom; at home the dogs and children manage to
> knock it over regularly).

In my experience, that's more likely to damage a handlebar than to
damage Shimano bar end shifters. It can, however, break one of the
Silver/Sun Tour Sprint shifters; happened to me.

> In regard to index shifting on a 6 and 7, here is the product write up
> from the rivendell site:"Shimano's best bar-end shifters,the
> Dura-Ace's are indexable only with 9-speed cassettes; the Ultegras
> index good enough with 6, 7, or 8 speed cassettes and both work with a
> friction mode, too----so if the "good enough" isn't good enough, throw
> it into friction, cowboy, and ride away. "

Grant's idea of "good enough" isn't mine, I'm afraid.

[WETH]

Dear Shoji and Joe, thanks for the response. I have a bike with stem mounted shifters (friction) that I ride on the weekends. I have commuted with it, but I did not like the uncertainty of which gear I dropped into nor the time I had to spend with only one hand on the bar while navigating busy urban roads. That in part could be solved by practice, but I am fairly set in my commuting ways. I do however enjoy friction shifting on my weekend rides. In response to another thread on bags, someone said (Jim from Hiawatha Cyclcery maybe?) paraphrasing here: fit, utility, looks- pick any two and be happy. Since the grip shifters function and fit how I ride when commuting, I suppose I should leave them. I can adjust more quickly to the new twisting motion on the grip shifts better than I could adjust to friction shifting. It's just those bar-end shifters look so nice!
Thanks for allowing me to think this through.
Erl

[Joe Bernard]

To clarify, I think you would like indexed bar-ends, and I've had no problem with 8-speed index shifters on a 7-speed cassette. Technically there may be a very small difference in spacing between 7- and 8-speed cogsets, but in practice it wasn't noticeable once the shifting was dialed so that the derailer pulleys were perfectly centered under the 4th (middle) position.

[Michael Rivers]

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjBBA4v5

This is exactly what you describe. These are the 8 speed Shimano from Riv, and the rear wheel is a Phil Rivvy hub with a 7 speed freewheel. I have no problem using the right shifter in index mode. I did use a newer rear der which I assume has a floating top pully wheel for indexed systems. I don't consider myself a fantastic wrench, but I built this up myself after the LBS put on the headset. Riv has a video on installing bar end shifters which was very helpful and I find this a very comfortable way to shift on these bars. BTW, these are the cork grips that are grooved from Riv. They are more comfortable than I thought, although when it is really hot my sweaty hands tend to slide on the shellac.

[Frank Brose]

I've used Shimano Bar ends alot and generally speaking I almost always flip them to friction mode. I cut my teeth on Suntour barcons and have just always prefered friction to index shiffting no matter how many cogs I have on the rear. If you're O.K. with friction only the Riv silver shifters are great and if you can find some Suntours they work great as well and are pretty beefy and will take alot of abuse.

Frank

[Matthew J]

> Given the heavy vehicle traffic, I like to maintain as consistent/predictable a presence as possible, which usually requires both hands

> on the handlebars.

To be fair it is all a matter of rider preference and style, but I am a daily Chicago commuter and for the life of me cannot figure out why this should be so.

[Peter Morgano]

When I commuted by bike I liked the stem mounted shifters. They let you stay upright the whole time as opposed to the ones on the down tube. This is of course before I discovered the joy of bar-ends. If your commute is so bad that you cant take your hands off the bars for a second to shift maybe you should think about a single speed bike. I didn't catch where you were from but for commuting through the Fallujah like hellscape you describe maybe just one speed would be safer.

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[Nick Payne]

On 28/03/13 09:59, Steve Palincsar wrote:
> I've never seen an indexed 6 and I'm not sure they ever existed.

The original Dura-ace SIS was six speed. A friend still has his
mid-1980s Colnago with that component group on it.

And I still have a pair of Suntour Superbe Pro DT shifters that can
index either six or seven speed (you turn a tab on the outside of the
shifter mount to the setting you want).

Nick

[hangtownmatt]

Erl,

Based on your riding style I think you should stick with GripShifts.  I run Silver bar end shifters on Noodles, but have a different riding style.   I would not want to use them as you describe.  GripShift is probably perfect for your application.

Matt

On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:41:46 PM UTC-7, WETH wrote:

[Bryan]

Hi, Erl

It sounds to me that the grip shifters have formed a bit of a bad habit. I had a commuting friend a while back who also had grip shifters on his bike, and the guy was in a new gear like every two seconds, and this was on a flat commute. He'd quickly shift through all his gears between stop lights - up and down, up and down. You can get by with far fewer gears. Even one gear. I have a slightly hilly 7-mile commute, and on those days when I ride a geared bike (I mostly commute on a Quickbeam), I switch gears maybe two or three times during the entire commute, and this is in busy LA traffic with tons of stop signs, red lights, mammoth potholes, speed bumps and idiot texting drivers. Grant talks about over-shifting in Just Ride, I think. You can get a lot more out of each gear than you think.  

I would suggest switching to the bar-end shifters, or even a single speed bike, just to train you off the over-shifting thing. 

Bryan 

 

[Joe Bernard]

This is a good point. I only recently picked up my first singlespeed (that's built and actually being ridden), a Dahon folder, and I'm a little shocked how not-a big-deal it is to be in one gear over varied elevations. It's already transformed the way I ride my derailer bikes, which I had clearly been over-shifting.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Amen to this. I had a hardish day yesterday (hardly epic; I'm just weak) and, at the end of the day faced an 8.3 mile return commute involving a modest headwind and 5+ miles of climbing, of which 1 was steep, the rest rolling -- all in a 72" fixed gear on a bike weighing 28 lb with load.

 No spring chicken, but, by pacing myself, I made it home without undue travail. Moral: you don't need too many damned gears!

 

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[WETH]

Wow! Thanks for all the helpful and thoughtful replies; you have all given me much to consider.

Yes, I shift too much, an accurate diagnosis. I remember that chapter from Grant's book, though at the time I did not think it applied to me. Overshifting is a habit I come by honestly. (True for most bad habits?) I came to biking 20 years ago with bad knees that did not (still don't) allow me to run much. In an effort to minimize sore knees as I cycyled more, I developed a habit of frequent shifting to minize heavy effort on the pedals. This is especially true when commuting as I am in more of a hurry. My knees are much stronger now, though 20 miles on my old 10 speed with friction shifting gives me sore knees. Whereas 20 miles on the bike with grip shifting does not leave me with sore knees. This is a result of better gear ratios on the 27 speed bike with grip shifts, I think, and not a reflection on the
type of shifting.

My second confession is I never learned to ride a bike without my hands; I was an overcautious child. Even as adult, I am most comfortable with both hands on the bars. Therefore my preference to keep all my controls at my finger tips. I do not even like to pull my water bottle and drink while cycling, prefering to stop to drink. Boy, do I have issues. :)

Thanks to all who weighed in on using the bar-ends with the Albatross. This is a great group.

I will practice moderating my shifting and likely give the bar-ends a try. I came across this image of a set-up I might try: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27209537@N00/3454710706/

Many thanks again and safe cycling,
Erl

[Deacon Patrick]

Erl,

I ride Albatross bars with thumb shifters (which I recently shifted further up from the cork grips to give my hands more room, eliminated all the "bar" issues I was having). I debated long between them and the bar ends. I can't/won't ride no handed because of my vertigo. I've no doubt the bike would handle fine, but my brain needs the proprioceptive feedback. I haven't used bar end shifters, but I do love the thumb shifters. The only reason I would give bar end a try is if I needed cleaner bars. So if you want to shift to friction shifting, you may have two options.

With abandon,

Patrick

[WETH]

I wanted to provide an update after all the helpful responses.  I installed the bar end shifters on the Albatross bars, and the set-up has worked great.  The index shifting is both accurate as well as fast.  I have no trouble switching through several gears when I need to.  I also focussed on my over-shifting habit.  Thanks again for all the advice and insight.

Photos prove the set-up changed:

Before with trekking bars and grip shifts:

After with Albatross bars and bar end shifters:

More on the new set up here: http://erlhouston.smugmug.com/Portfolio/Cyling/Surly-LHT/28441200_bmjtbS

Thanks again for all the assistance.

Erl