DESKTOP_SESSION environment variable

[chri...@surlykke.dk]

Hi 

Running lxde-qt as my desktop I ran into a small glitch: The script startlxde-qt runs:

lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE

The -e switch defines name of the desktop environment, and it is stored into the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP variable. 

Now, I'm on Arch, and use stock xdg-scripts. If I run

xdg-open some-file 

xdg-open decides, based on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE, to hand over some-file to pcmanfm, but that fails as I haven't got pcmanfm installed (I have pcmanfm-qt).

Bottom line: I cannot, for example, open a downloaded pdf-file from my browser.

 This patch on lxde-common fixes it for me:

diff --git a/startlxde-qt.in b/startlxde-qt.in

index 4a56d8d..8b1e7e3 100755

--- a/startlxde-qt.in

+++ b/startlxde-qt.in

@@ -34,4 +34,4 @@ fi

 export XDG_MENU_PREFIX="lxde-"

 

 # Start the LXDE session

-exec lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE

+exec lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE-Qt

So we get XDG_CURRENT_SESSION=LXDE-Qt instead. I hesitate to commit && push, though, as I'm not sure it won't break something else. Does anybody know if this will cause problems? 

(Maybe we should decide a name for this brand-new desktop :-) Soonish. There is a risk if we use LXDE-Qt that 3rd-party tools and apps will begin to depend on it.)

br. Chr.

br. Chr. 

[Julien Lavergne]

2013/11/19 chri...@surlykke.dk <chri...@surlykke.dk>

-e is supposed to set the XDG desktop environment you want to run (like LXDE, GNOME, KDE ....). It's also useful for the .desktop which will be displayed on the menu. So, as LXDE-Qt is not an environment on XDG, is probably not a good idea.

I think the proper short-term fix is to symlink pcmanfm-qt to pcmanfm. I think what ever pcmanfm can open, pcmanfm-qt will be able to do the same job.

Regards,

Julien Lavergne

[chri...@surlykke.dk]

2013/11/19 Julien Lavergne <julien....@gmail.com>

2013/11/19 chri...@surlykke.dk <chri...@surlykke.dk>

Hi 

Running lxde-qt as my desktop I ran into a small glitch: The script startlxde-qt runs:

lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE

The -e switch defines name of the desktop environment, and it is stored into the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP variable. 

Now, I'm on Arch, and use stock xdg-scripts. If I run

xdg-open some-file 

xdg-open decides, based on XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE, to hand over some-file to pcmanfm, but that fails as I haven't got pcmanfm installed (I have pcmanfm-qt).

Bottom line: I cannot, for example, open a downloaded pdf-file from my browser.

 This patch on lxde-common fixes it for me:

diff --git a/startlxde-qt.in b/startlxde-qt.in

index 4a56d8d..8b1e7e3 100755

--- a/startlxde-qt.in

+++ b/startlxde-qt.in

@@ -34,4 +34,4 @@ fi

 export XDG_MENU_PREFIX="lxde-"

 

 # Start the LXDE session

-exec lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE

+exec lxsession -s LXDE-Qt -e LXDE-Qt

So we get XDG_CURRENT_SESSION=LXDE-Qt instead. I hesitate to commit && push, though, as I'm not sure it won't break something else. Does anybody know if this will cause problems? 

(Maybe we should decide a name for this brand-new desktop :-) Soonish. There is a risk if we use LXDE-Qt that 3rd-party tools and apps will begin to depend on it.)

-e is supposed to set the XDG desktop environment you want to run (like LXDE, GNOME, KDE ....). It's also useful for the .desktop which will be displayed on the menu. So, as LXDE-Qt is not an environment on XDG, is probably not a good idea.

Not sure I agree here. If xdg-open doesn't know $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP, it falls back to default behavior, which is to use the desktop database to figure out which application to use. That's how it worked with Razor which didn't have any special handling in xdg-open (or other xdg scripts). I think this is the correct behavior if we want to adhere to standards.

 

I think the proper short-term fix is to symlink pcmanfm-qt to pcmanfm. I think what ever pcmanfm can open, pcmanfm-qt will be able to do the same job.

Well, it's a fix, yes. But I think it is wrong to hardwire the use of pcmanfm-qt. LXDE-Qt should be a modular desktop system, meaning if a user wants to use another file manager, things should still be able to work. That is best achieved (IMHO) by letting xdg scripts do their thing without lxde-qt components getting involved.

br. Chr. 

  

 

Regards,

Julien Lavergne

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[PCMan]

I support the idea.

If xdg-tools can fully support the standards, it does not matter whether it knows lxde-qt or not.

PCManFM and PCManFM-Qt both uses gio provided by glib which implements the xdg standards.

So, calling pcmanfm <file_path> has nearly the same effects as calling gvfs-open <file_path>

The only things pcmanfm does for you are opening folders in pcmanfm and open URLs by the specified browsers.

If these are fully supported by xdg-tools, there's no need to call pcmanfm.

Name of the desktop is another issue.

I agree that we need a new environment variable since the Qt desktop is different from the old gtk+ one.

Mixing the Qt and gtk+ components is not so elegant.

Maybe we can use LXQt or LXDEQt for now. The name is only used internally and is not visible to the user.

For the new merged project, a new name is also wanted, too.

Though previously we said that we can rename later, but I'm not against the idea of do the renaming now if someone can come up with a cool name. Do you have good proposals?

Personally I think LDE is also an acceptable option.

The alphabet 'L' is next to 'K'. :-)

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 3:23 AM, chri...@surlykke.dk <chri...@surlykke.dk> wrote:

2013/11/19 Stephan Sokolow <gmane.s...@spamgourmet.com>

On 13-11-19 01:10 PM, chri...@surlykke.dk wrote:
> Well, it's a fix, yes. But I think it is wrong to hardwire the use of
> pcmanfm-qt. LXDE-Qt should be a modular desktop system, meaning if a
> user wants to use another file manager, things should still be able to
> work. That is best achieved (IMHO) by letting xdg scripts do their thing
> without lxde-qt components getting involved.
>

That's actually one reason I suggested advocating for the LXDE special
case to be removed from xdg-open as soon as PCManFM on every
still-supported release uses mimeapps.list to store that setting.

When the LXDE support was added, xdg-open didn't have support for
falling back to the cross-desktop standard. Now that it does, it really
has no reason to be using a desktop-specific lookup on any desktop
that's spec-compliant.

I think we agree fully here. But it would be somewhat faster to change an environment variable, than to push a change and get a new release of xdg (these release does not seem to happen very often these days). Also it might make make sense for LXDE-Qt to set that environment variable to something different than what LXDE(-classic) does. They are different desktops after all. Changing the environment variable does not preclude pushing for a change of xdg-open.

br. Chr. 

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[Julien Lavergne]

2013/11/19 chri...@surlykke.dk <chri...@surlykke.dk>

Not sure I agree here. If xdg-open doesn't know $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP, it falls back to default behavior, which is to use the desktop database to figure out which application to use. That's how it worked with Razor which didn't have any special handling in xdg-open (or other xdg scripts). I think this is the correct behavior if we want to adhere to standards.

 

Ah, sorry, I was sure Razor has a special case for xdg-open. So, why not just use Razor as $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP ? As it's used for a Qt environment, it's probably a better choice than LXDE one, until we have a more permanent solution. This variable is still useful for showing or not .desktop files, so if we use an unknown one, we lose this functionality.

Regards,

Julien Lavergne

[Jerome Leclanche]

For the time being we can probably use razor.  We will have to discuss this at some point though.. With the xdg list as well.

--

[chri...@surlykke.dk]

Ok. RAZOR it is.

Br. Chr.

[Jerome Leclanche]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 3:16 AM, PCMan <pcma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For the new merged project, a new name is also wanted, too.
> Though previously we said that we can rename later, but I'm not against the
> idea of do the renaming now if someone can come up with a cool name. Do you
> have good proposals?
> Personally I think LDE is also an acceptable option.
> The alphabet 'L' is next to 'K'. :-)

After using it in the wild, I have to say LXQt works out quite well.
I'm in favour of keeping it.

J. Leclanche

[Andrej N. Gritsenko]

Hello!

Jerome Leclanche has written on Monday, 25 November, at 12:56:

It misses DE letters. :)
Well, if it's not completely DE then DT could be fine (Desktop Toolkit).
LXQt doesn't tell anything to user what it is really, just funny letters.
LDE looks very good for me but unfortunately it was used, isn't it?

>J. Leclanche

Cheers!
Andriy.

[Jerome Leclanche]

For what it's worth, I think if we go for a name we should then use it
everywhere; not have references to LDE, LQDE, LXQt and LXDE-Qt all
over. I also don't think "DE" is a requirement; gnome uses "GNOME",
not GDE.
I think LXQt has a nice ring to it. It's very pronouncable (elixcute),
and it rings nicely with a bird mascot called Helix ;) It also nicely
"merges" LXDE and Razor-Qt. I'd honestly like to keep the LX letters
as they are since they represent the LXDE brand pretty well.

2c

>
>>J. Leclanche
>
> Cheers!
> Andriy.

[PICCORO McKAY Lenz]

LXQT   ++

gnome-puach dont follow any standar , kde either.. so then LXDE and QT merges produce LXQT naming...

Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO)

http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com

[Tolga Dalman]

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 4:16:49 AM UTC+1, PCMan wrote:

I support the idea.

Yes, I like that too.

 

For the new merged project, a new name is also wanted, too.

One should consider that changing a name could repel conservative users. However, since this is a major change, I absolutely agree that changing the project name as well is a good idea.

Furthermore, I believe, the transition phase could be eased and possible confusions about merged software components are reduced.

 

Though previously we said that we can rename later, but I'm not against the idea of do the renaming now if someone can come up with a cool name. Do you have good proposals?

Personally I think LDE is also an acceptable option.

The alphabet 'L' is next to 'K'. :-)

That's an intriguing proposal! Though, I like Razor or Razor-Qt as well. LXDE, LXQT, and whatnot sounds rather ... nerd'ish (IMHO)…

Thanks for the good work, btw.

 

[Jerome Leclanche]

Given that pretty much everyone contributing to the project has been
using LXQt in the wild and nobody really brought up good alternatives,
I think it's been implicitly agreed for a while that LXQt is the
project's name.
J. Leclanche

[Tolga Dalman]

On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:59:57 AM UTC+1, Jerome Leclanche wrote:

Given that pretty much everyone contributing to the project has been
using LXQt in the wild and nobody really brought up good alternatives,
I think it's been implicitly agreed for a while that LXQt is the
project's name.

Since no release has happened so far, you have still the chance to come up with a cool project name. What was the meaning of 'LXQt' again ??

I mean, 'LX' implies that you want to stick forever to X11 and Qt implies that this wonderful desktop environment is inherently bound to Qt's feature, which, in my opinion, is not the case! LXDE (using GTK+) is still a great piece of software!

 

[gary sheppard]

What about LDQt? Many people would mentally translate that into ---linux desktop Qt--- which would not be an overly bad thing... ;)

--

[ricardo silva]

LDE-Qt

[Cochise César]

I'm a little against "Qt" in the name. It's possible to make a toolkit shift in the future, like LXDE did. Razor itself only have the "-qt" suffix to make web searchs more easy.

Then, of all names here, LDE is the best for me, and describes the drop the "only for X11", as Wayland approaches, not only the toolkit change.

As, we decided to use a name similar to LXDE for branding and recall, another name, more subtantive, like Razor was, is not in the scope.

But, I'm a little against a pure [x]DE name, because

1 - It's not a word. I like words.

2 - It's a too little variation from KDE.

So, some vogal is a better solution, to preserve LXDE branding, make a pronunciable word and preserve a distnace from KDE branding.

Something like:

LiDE [Li]ghtweight [D]esktop [E]nviroment

LwDE [l]ight[w]eight [D]esktop [E]nviroment

Em sexta-feira, 3 de janeiro de 2014, ricardo silva escreveu:

LDE-Qt

[Mário]

Hi.

I'm new here and I don't have much to do with this, but i keep following the news on this forum and so i would also like to express my opinion. LXQt brings LXDE and QT togther but the X doesn't make sense anymore... I do like LDE, but i also agree it does not represent a strong name. As it was already said, some kind of word would be better. So I leave a few suggestions (which are not actually intended to be one, but instead a challange to try to get some kind of brainstorming to start)

LINQT - it could mean: LIght N QuTe / Light IN QT / LINux QT  and it has a Pronouciation near to: LINk To... / LINk Too

LytE - Light Enviroment

LytI - Light Interface

Lyqte - Light QT Enviroment

Lyqter - Light QT EnviRoment


Sorry for my intrusion...

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