Nikon D1X support may be?

[Maxim L.]

Is it still possible to add D1x support?
I feel we all will see the rise of old-school CCD cameras in a not for far future, so why not?

Maxim L.

[RPP]

It's already supported, for many years.

Most recent version is here:

https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip

[Maxim L.]

Thank you for the fast answer,

But i've just open D1x DNG and it opens in a native non-square pixel format (4024 x 1324 pixel image).

Is any setting for correct opening? Also D1x NEFs can be interpolated in a 10mpx output, is it possible too? 

пятница, 20 декабря 2024 г. в 12:38:57 UTC+3, RPP:

[RPP]

It is what the sensor is. You may shrink or expand it in one direction with any editor.

Regards,

Andrey

[Maxim L.]

Thank you, Andrey, 

I know D1x sensor has non-square physical pixels. 

I've started this topic because some years ago someone wrote 

"Hello,
I downloaded RPP and tried it, the D1X nef files can be opened, but
the geometry is completely wrong; I know that the D1X as a weird .NEF
format and that some software allow to open the file as 6MP or 10MP
Do you plan to add support for the D1X ? I am happy to supply a couple
of NEFs if that helps
Didier"

and your answer was:

"Hello Didier.

It has non-square pixels.
I've no plans to support it, sorry.
Regards,

Andrey"

So I thought 10mpx output could be available from RPP natively like in LR on Nikon software (option 5 or 10mpx output).

Thanks !

пятница, 20 декабря 2024 г. в 13:26:29 UTC+3, RPP:

[DP N/A]

use linear DNG

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[Maxim L.]

NEF -> (some software) -> linear DNG -> RPP right?
or did I misunderstand?

пятница, 20 декабря 2024 г. в 16:23:47 UTC+3, DP:

[iliah....@gmail.com]

> I know D1x sensor has non-square physical pixels

That's not physical pixels, pixels on the sensor are square. That's in-camera binning that results in non-square pixels.

> I feel we all will see the rise of old-school CCD cameras in a not for far future

Why?

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www.fastrawviewer.com

[Maxim Legenchenko]

20 дек. 2024 г., в 17:37, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):

> I know D1x sensor has non-square physical pixels

That's not physical pixels, pixels on the sensor are square. That's in-camera binning that results in non-square pixels.

Interesting discussion.

Like i understand, D1x CCD has double resolution in the horizontal direction only, no vertical, so RGRB layout is 4028x1324, 6:2 aspect ratio, but physically CCD has standard 3:2 aspect ratio, so “pixels” are rectangular. 

Incamera processing turns it to 3008x1960 resolution.

Due to line by line data reading from CCD, Nikon’s CPU did not have enough power (produce 3.3 fps) to work with “real” 5.3 sensor if it was, so Nikon created such “beautiful” solution. 

May be i’m wrong?

> I feel we all will see the rise of old-school CCD cameras in a not for far future

Why?

Young “discover” old stuff, like film consumer cameras, now i see growing interest for the digital consumer cameras, also “magic” CCD “colors” disturbs young imagination too. 

I like ancient CCD to, just like results from R-D1s and 646D w. RPP.

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[DP N/A]

yes, Adobe DNG converter ( or ACR or LR* ) shall do it ... certainly some of RPP pre-demosaick adjustments will not be available ( pre-demosaick pipeline-wise that is )... may be you can live w/ that

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/9c5ed27e-4260-486a-b07c-9008371e3fc4n%40googlegroups.com.

[DP N/A]

>  now i see growing interest for the digital consumer cameras, also “magic” CCD “colors” disturbs young imagination too. 

and people will tell you that it is due to CFA and mostly "camera profiles" and not due to CCD technology ... 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com.

[Maxim L.]

Пт, 20 дек. 2024 г. в 18:53, DP N/A <dp.m...@gmail.com>:

yes, Adobe DNG converter ( or ACR or LR* ) shall do it ... certainly some of RPP pre-demosaick adjustments will not be available ( pre-demosaick pipeline-wise that is )... may be you can live w/ that

Sure, thank you!

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[Maxim Legenchenko]

20 дек. 2024 г., в 18:56, DP N/A <dp.m...@gmail.com> написал(а):



>  now i see growing interest for the digital consumer cameras, also “magic” CCD “colors” disturbs young imagination too. 

and people will tell you that it is due to CFA and mostly "camera profiles" and not due to CCD technology ... 

and classic holy war begins…

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/CAAhqPDgdzNaSwivO_qh_%2B40R1Bqktc1xgDuOsB5Ef5Y0WJ9M7A%40mail.gmail.com.

[iliah....@gmail.com]

D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with
the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.

There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.

What's the mechanism behind CCD colours being different?

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[iliah....@gmail.com]

> classic holy war begins…

So, bringing up facts is what is considered to be a "holy war" :)))

If you don't have better arguments, just let it go.

On 12/20/24 11:25, Maxim Legenchenko wrote:
>
>
>> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 18:56, DP N/A <dp.m...@gmail.com> написал(а):
>>
>> 
>> > now i see growing interest for the digital consumer cameras, also “magic” CCD “colors” disturbs young imagination too.
>>
>> and people will tell you that it is due to CFA and mostly "camera profiles" and not due to CCD technology ...
>
> and classic holy war begins…
>
>>

>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 10:42 AM Maxim Legenchenko <mult...@gmail.com <mailto:mult...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 17:37, iliah....@gmail.com <mailto:iliah....@gmail.com> написал(а):

>>>>    On Friday, December 20, 2024 at 12:49:59 PM UTC+3 mult...@gmail.com <mailto:mult...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>        Thank you for the fast answer,
>>>>        But i've just open D1x DNG and it opens in a native non-square pixel format (4024 x 1324 pixel image).
>>>>        Is any setting for correct opening? Also D1x NEFs can be interpolated in a 10mpx output, is it possible too?
>>>>        пятница, 20 декабря 2024 г. в 12:38:57 UTC+3, RPP:
>>>>            It's already supported, for many years.
>>>>            Most recent version is here:
>>>> https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip
>>>> <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip>
>>>>            <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip
>>>> <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip>>

>>>>            On Friday, December 20, 2024 at 12:37:04 PM UTC+3 mult...@gmail.com <mailto:mult...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>                Is it still possible to add D1x support?
>>>>                I feel we all will see the rise of old-school CCD cameras in a not for far future, so why not?
>>>>                Maxim L.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Raw Photo Processor" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

>>>> raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com <mailto:raw-photo-processor%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> <mailto:raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com
>>>> <mailto:raw-photo-processor%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.

>>>> To view this discussion visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com>

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Iliah Borg
>>> LibRaw, LLC

>>> www.libraw.org <http://www.libraw.org>
>>> www.rawdigger.com <http://www.rawdigger.com>
>>> www.fastrawviewer.com <http://www.fastrawviewer.com>

>>>
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>>> To view this discussion visit

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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/06621846-8b10-4559-8aab-bfc8d4a511d5%40gmail.com>.

>>
>> --
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>>
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>
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[DP N/A]

>  There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.

do tell me if Canon's dual-pixel sub-sensels are not almost that

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/cecfb97a-4573-4f1a-b65c-2bc8c0c42b1f%40gmail.com.

[Maxim Legenchenko]

>
> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 19:29, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>
> D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.
If it the same sensor, why it has differ final picture resolution? Due to hardware limitations D1 produce 2.7mpx image from potential 10.2mpx?

> There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.

I understand it, but why d1x produce 6:2 aspect ration image and then interpolated it?

> What's the mechanism behind CCD colours being different?

No difference a t all, just two sensor production technology (ccd, cmos)

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/cecfb97a-4573-4f1a-b65c-2bc8c0c42b1f%40gmail.com.

[Maxim Legenchenko]

> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 19:32, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>
> 

>>
>> classic holy war begins…
>
> So, bringing up facts is what is considered to be a "holy war" :)))
>
> If you don't have better arguments, just let it go.

i don’t mean “holy war” here, i just like old cameras and there is no any difference between CCD and CMOS in “color”.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/9fbf2538-8762-473f-90d7-e31377855581%40gmail.com.

[Maxim Legenchenko]

20 дек. 2024 г., в 20:04, DP N/A <dp.m...@gmail.com> написал(а):



>  There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.

do tell me if Canon's dual-pixel sub-sensels are not almost that

have never heard before about Canon’s dual-pixel tech., sorry

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/CAAhqPDj%2BVF4r3uDKJMotc8QQZG6Jtes6MFBd%2BDNyGWk_UBJxMw%40mail.gmail.com.

[iliah....@gmail.com]

>> There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.
> do tell me if Canon's dual-pixel sub-sensels are not almost that

You know better than that, a pixel, even with two photosites, is still square. "almost", as in "close, but no cigar".

On 12/20/24 12:04, DP N/A wrote:
> > There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.
>
> do tell me if Canon's dual-pixel sub-sensels are not almost that
>

> On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 11:29 AM <iliah....@gmail.com <mailto:iliah....@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with
> the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.
>
> There is no industrial process to make physical sensor pixels with the aspect different from 1:1.
>
> What's the mechanism behind CCD colours being different?
>
> On 12/20/24 10:42, Maxim Legenchenko wrote:
> >
> >

> >> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 17:37, iliah....@gmail.com <mailto:iliah....@gmail.com> написал(а):

> >>>    On Friday, December 20, 2024 at 12:49:59 PM UTC+3 mult...@gmail.com <mailto:mult...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>        Thank you for the fast answer,
> >>>        But i've just open D1x DNG and it opens in a native non-square pixel format (4024 x 1324 pixel image).
> >>>        Is any setting for correct opening? Also D1x NEFs can be interpolated in a 10mpx output, is it possible too?
> >>>        пятница, 20 декабря 2024 г. в 12:38:57 UTC+3, RPP:
> >>>            It's already supported, for many years.
> >>>            Most recent version is here:
> >>> https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip
> <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip>
> >>>            <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip
> <https://www.raw-photo-processor.com/RPP/RPP64_1950Beta.zip>>

> >>>            On Friday, December 20, 2024 at 12:37:04 PM UTC+3 mult...@gmail.com <mailto:mult...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>                Is it still possible to add D1x support?
> >>>                I feel we all will see the rise of old-school CCD cameras in a not for far future, so why not?
> >>>                Maxim L.
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Raw Photo Processor" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

> >>> raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com <mailto:raw-photo-processor%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com <mailto:raw-photo-processor%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.

> >>> To view this discussion visit
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com>
> >>>

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/68dbf2e0-cbd4-4fd3-bfa5-b1077c6939d6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>
> >> --
> >> Best regards,
> >> Iliah Borg
> >> LibRaw, LLC

> >> www.libraw.org <http://www.libraw.org>
> >> www.rawdigger.com <http://www.rawdigger.com>
> >> www.fastrawviewer.com <http://www.fastrawviewer.com>
> >>

> >> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/06621846-8b10-4559-8aab-bfc8d4a511d5%40gmail.com>.

> >
> > --
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> <mailto:raw-photo-proce...@googlegroups.com <mailto:raw-photo-processor%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.

> > To view this discussion visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com>
> >

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/AC1B90A4-32D3-4234-A5E0-4354F700BFC1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
> Best regards,
> Iliah Borg
> LibRaw, LLC

> www.libraw.org <http://www.libraw.org>
> www.rawdigger.com <http://www.rawdigger.com>
> www.fastrawviewer.com <http://www.fastrawviewer.com>
>

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>
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[Maxim Legenchenko]

> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 19:29, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>
> D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.

D200 - Sony ICX483AQA
D1, D1h - Sony (model name unknown) (CCD)
D1x - Sony (model name unknown) (special ‘rectangular’ CCD)

What does it mean ‘rectangular’?

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/raw-photo-processor/cecfb97a-4573-4f1a-b65c-2bc8c0c42b1f%40gmail.com.

[iliah....@gmail.com]

> What does it mean ‘rectangular’?

As I said, use a microscope to see the sensor layout.

> I know D1x sensor has non-square physical pixels

Two adjacent physical pixels, each pixel being square, covered with the same-coloured 1:2 aspect filter - that doesn't
make for a physical non-square pixel.

Beginning with D1:
"I guess that it's now safe to reveal that the D1 image sensor, with specifications noting a pixel count of 2.7-million
pixels, actually had a pixel count of 10.8-million pixels. The technical reason for an actual pixel count four times
greater than that indicated publicly lies in the need to achieve high sensitivity and a good signal-to-noise ratio.
Unlike current cameras, for which final pixel counts account for individual pixels, we had to include multiple pixels in
each pixel unit with the D1."

http://web.archive.org/web/20120722023950/http://imaging.nikon.com/history/scenes/12/index.htm

http://www.naturfotograf.com/images/B030217207.jpg

On 12/20/24 12:43, Maxim Legenchenko wrote:
>
>> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 19:29, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>>
>> D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.
>
> D200 - Sony ICX483AQA
> D1, D1h - Sony (model name unknown) (CCD)
> D1x - Sony (model name unknown) (special ‘rectangular’ CCD)
>
> What does it mean ‘rectangular’?

[Maxim Legenchenko]

>
> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 21:07, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>
> 

>> What does it mean ‘rectangular’?
>
> As I said, use a microscope to see the sensor layout.
>
>> I know D1x sensor has non-square physical pixels
> Two adjacent physical pixels, each pixel being square, covered with the same-coloured 1:2 aspect filter - that doesn't make for a physical non-square pixel.
>
> Beginning with D1:
> "I guess that it's now safe to reveal that the D1 image sensor, with specifications noting a pixel count of 2.7-million pixels, actually had a pixel count of 10.8-million pixels. The technical reason for an actual pixel count four times greater than that indicated publicly lies in the need to achieve high sensitivity and a good signal-to-noise ratio. Unlike current cameras, for which final pixel counts account for individual pixels, we had to include multiple pixels in each pixel unit with the D1."
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20120722023950/http://imaging.nikon.com/history/scenes/12/index.htm
>
> http://www.naturfotograf.com/images/B030217207.jpg

Ok, understand, thank you!

> On 12/20/24 12:43, Maxim Legenchenko wrote:
>>>> 20 дек. 2024 г., в 19:29, iliah....@gmail.com написал(а):
>>>
>>> D1x physical CCD layout is the same as D1, D1h, and D200, a 10.2-megapixel one. If you have cameras you can see it with the help of a microscope ;) The sensor in the cameras is made by Sony.
>> D200 - Sony ICX483AQA
>> D1, D1h - Sony (model name unknown) (CCD)
>> D1x - Sony (model name unknown) (special ‘rectangular’ CCD)
>> What does it mean ‘rectangular’?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Iliah Borg
> LibRaw, LLC
> www.libraw.org
> www.rawdigger.com
> www.fastrawviewer.com
>

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