[RavenDB] Pricing

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Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 2:23:03 PM5/17/10
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Before it goes live, thoughts?

Feature

Raven DB Community

Raven DB Commercial

Raven DB Enterprise

Licensing

License

Open source
(AGPLv3)

Commercial

Commercial

Can be used with closed source software

No

Yes

Yes

Functionality

High Performance Document Database

Yes

Yes

Yes

Full transaction support

Yes

Yes

Yes

Extensible by users

Yes

Yes

Yes

Full Text Search

Yes

Yes

Yes

Map/Reduce

Yes

Yes

Yes

Native .NET client API

Yes

Yes

Yes

Web based management console

Yes

Yes

Yes

REST API

Yes

Yes

Yes

Administration

Online backup

Yes

Yes

Yes

Online Import / Export

Yes

Yes

Yes

Hands off administration

Yes

Yes

Yes

High load & high availability

Intelligent sharding support

Yes

Yes

Yes

High availability instance failover

Yes

Yes

Replication

Yes

Yes

Online failover to warm spare

Yes

Yes

Extensions

Document versioning

Yes

Yes

Yes

Document level security

Yes

Yes

Replicate to RDBMS

Yes

Yes

Support & Services

Number of incidents per year

2

6

Response time

                      3d

24h

Communication channel

Email

Email

Subscription per month

Free

79 USD

799 USD

OEM / Perpetual:

Contact us

 

Carl Hörberg

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May 17, 2010, 2:59:38 PM5/17/10
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only subscription? 
is it per instance, machine, application, customer, or something else? 

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 3:00:56 PM5/17/10
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Per instance, and there is perpetual pricing available. 
The problem is that it depends on the mode you want to use it for.
If you just want to pay once, or want to deploy it as part of OEM package.

Tobi

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May 17, 2010, 3:46:25 PM5/17/10
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Ayende Rahien wrote:

> Per instance, and there is perpetual pricing available.
> The problem is that it depends on the mode you want to use it for.
> If you just want to pay once, or want to deploy it as part of OEM package.

For what I have in mind, I would like to use RavenDB as a local in-process
DB for an embedded system. A monthly subscription per instance would
definitely be a no-go.

Tobias

Emil Cardell

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May 17, 2010, 3:52:14 PM5/17/10
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I'm agreeing.
I think monthly subscription for a product that's going to be central in a solution on is normally a no-go. Impossible so tell to my clients. I think it's better to have a fixed price + monthly support/upgrade.

/Emil

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 3:59:04 PM5/17/10
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A perpetual license would have to cost quite a bit more, though.

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 4:24:11 PM5/17/10
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Let me try this again:
The essential parts are:

Subscription per month

Free

79 USD

449 USD

Perpetual:

Free 1 599 USD 8 599 USD

OEM:

Free Contact us Contact us

Now, here is where it gets interesting.
If you don't like it, what I would like you to do is to make me a counter offer

Emil Cardell

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May 17, 2010, 4:24:36 PM5/17/10
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These are my scenarios I'm living with right now where I like to use raven.

1. Open source - No problem here
2. On the side startup - We can't afford anything over 200€ but on the other hand we can live without support and any extra fluff until we make money off it.
3. I work as an consultant normally for customers running a cms product. Part of that product can be enhanced by ravendb, I'm meeting them discussing how they can open up interfaces for implementing your own storage. The thing is that it just a part of the system, and making them pay a monthly fee is a big apparatus with a lot of paper work. A one time fee would be great with option to buy early support subscription. The price that I can rationally sell to my clients today is about 2-5 days worth of work depending on client. 1600€ for a small client to 4000€ for a real big client.

Thats me.

/Emil

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 4:29:49 PM5/17/10
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How about something like startup offer for first instance for free?
Take a look at the next email with the perpetual pricing structure.

Emil Cardell

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May 17, 2010, 4:36:04 PM5/17/10
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The commercial perpetual license is in a good price range. Can probably sell to smaller clients.
The enterprise is ok as well.

Good start-up license.

Starting to looking like a good price list.

/Emil

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 4:39:02 PM5/17/10
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Great, I would like to get another pair of eyes or two on that before going live.

Aaron Weiker

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May 17, 2010, 4:54:01 PM5/17/10
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Throwing this out there as I know some people really like to have a phone number to call when the crap hits the fan. I'm not in a situation where I would want this now, but I have some people not even consider unless this is an option. Additionally this is where you can provide your professional services for a really nice price point.

Telephone Support /hr

n/a

329USD

279 USD





Adam

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May 17, 2010, 4:53:50 PM5/17/10
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Seems a little steep to me, don't get me wrong I'm loving the product but as a consultant selling it into organisations without replication for $1599 seems like a hard sell. If you had replication in the commercial version I think it'd be a lot easier to make the case ... add a Yes in the  commercial column for replication and I think you'd be golden. 

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 4:55:26 PM5/17/10
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Will do

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 4:56:06 PM5/17/10
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Adam,
Without replication, exactly what motivation _do_ you have to go to the enterprise version?
And the commercial version can do sharding

Adam

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May 17, 2010, 5:07:44 PM5/17/10
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Based on the feature table the enterprise features that would motivate me would be high availability instance failover, online failover to warm spare (I think maybe these are both provided by replication, whether you could or would want to restrict them I don't know), replicate to rdbms and support levels.
The document level security looks very interesting too. 
I must caveat that I'm very new to ravendb right now and basing my judgements on the feature table, I'm just aware that a lack of replication would terrify many of my clients.
Does that make sense?

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 5:16:04 PM5/17/10
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High availability instance fail over and warm spare are implemented on top of replication. They are natural consequences of having replication, as a matter of fact.

I am not sure if rdbms replication and document level security would be that attractive without replication.

Jason Slocomb

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May 17, 2010, 5:17:58 PM5/17/10
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I think counter offer is somewhat common. My boss is always negotiating with our 3rd party vendors! 

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Ayende Rahien <aye...@ayende.com> wrote:

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 5:22:15 PM5/17/10
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Except that unless he gets to do it really quickly, he may not get a chance to affect things.

Jason Slocomb

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May 17, 2010, 5:23:32 PM5/17/10
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Oh I see, perpetual as in forever, I read that as annually for some reason.

Carl Hörberg

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May 17, 2010, 5:46:57 PM5/17/10
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as i see it, document level security is very attractive without replication, eg. ajax access in a multi tender application. or am i misunderstanding the concept? 

Joel Lucsy

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May 17, 2010, 5:43:45 PM5/17/10
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I'd recommed sharding at the enterprise level and replication at the
commercial level. Seems more inline with what the these particular
types would want.

On Monday, May 17, 2010, Ayende Rahien <aye...@ayende.com> wrote:
> Adam,Without replication, exactly what motivation _do_ you have to go to the enterprise version?And the commercial version can do sharding
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Adam <myog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems a little steep to me, don't get me wrong I'm loving the product but as a consultant selling it into organisations without replication for $1599 seems like a hard sell. If you had replication in the commercial version I think it'd be a lot easier to make the case ... add a Yes in the  commercial column for replication and I think you'd be golden.
>
>
>
> On 17 May 2010, at 21:24, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> Let me try this again:The essential parts are:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Subscription per month
>
>
> Free
>
>
> 79 USD
>
>
> 449 USD
>
>
>
>
> Perpetual:
>
>
> Free
> 1 599 USD
>
> 8 599 USD
>
>
>
>
> OEM:
>
>
> Free
> Contact us <http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact>
>
> Contact us <http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact>
>
> Now, here is where it gets interesting.If you don't like it, what I would like you to do is to make me a counter offer
>
>
>
>

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 6:13:24 PM5/17/10
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Oh, I agree that this is a pretty compelling feature, I am just not sure that it is compelling enough. :-)

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 6:15:17 PM5/17/10
to ravendb
Hm... what about limiting replication in the commercial version? 
Something like, can replicate only to one machine, and can't have master/master relationaships?

Aaron Weiker

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May 17, 2010, 6:17:23 PM5/17/10
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That would handle a read-only scenario perfectly and also give them a taste for the power that is in the enterprise edition.

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 6:24:46 PM5/17/10
to ravendb
We seem to have reached an agreement, any more comments?

High availability instance failover

Yes

Yes

Master / Slave Replication

Yes, unlimited replicas Single replica only

Yes, unlimited replicas

Master / Slave Replication

Ys   Yes
Telephone support   379 USD / hour 279 USD / hour

Subscription per month

Free

79 USD

449 USD

Perpetual:

Free 1 599 USD 8 599 USD

Nick Aceves

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May 17, 2010, 6:44:43 PM5/17/10
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I am curious about how you're going to handle OEM pricing. I have a project in the works that will require that. By what's been said so-far it seems that you'll handle OEM stuff on a case-by-case basis, but it'd be nice know something general about that area.

Nick

Rob Ashton

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May 17, 2010, 6:45:55 PM5/17/10
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~Sorry I've been out all night and not had a chance to look at this.

I think the pricing you've ended up at is reasonable, I saw start-up
mentioned, first instance being free - did I understand that
correctly?

Cos that would be a necessity, if I was to build a new product now and
set up a plebby from-home start-up, I'd probably not want to be paying
license fees immediately, but like MS Bizspark buying in early to the
software on the basis that once/if the startup becomes viable more
licenses will be needed and thus money for you.

On May 17, 11:24 pm, Ayende Rahien <aye...@ayende.com> wrote:
> We seem to have reached an agreement, any more comments?
>
>   Feature  Raven DB
> Community  Raven DB
> Commercial  Raven DB
> Enterprise   Licensing
>
> *License*
>
> Open source
> (AGPLv3)
>
> Commercial
>
> Commercial
>
> *Can be used with closed source software*
>
> No
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>    Functionality
>
> *High Performance Document Database*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Full transaction support*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Extensible by users*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Full Text Search*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Map/Reduce*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Native .NET client API*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Web based management console*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *REST API*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>    Administration
>
> *Online backup*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Online Import / Export*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Hands off administration*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>    High load & high availability
>
> *Intelligent sharding support*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *High availability instance failover*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Master / Slave Replication*
>  Yes, unlimited replicas Single replica only
>
> Yes, unlimited replicas
>
> *Master / Slave Replication*
>  Ys   Yes
>
> *Online failover to warm spare*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>    Extensions
>
> *Document versioning*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Document level security*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>
> *Replicate to RDBMS*
>
> Yes
>
> Yes
>    Support & Services
>
> *Number of incidents per year*
>
> 2
>
> 6
>
> *Response time*
>
> 3d
>
> 24h
>
> *Communication channel*
>
> Email
>
> Email
>   *Telephone support*   379 USD / hour 279 USD / hour   Subscription per
> month
>
> Free
>
> 79 USD
>
> 449 USD
>   Perpetual:  Free 1 599 USD 8 599 USD   OEM:  Free Contact
> us<http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact> Contact
> us <http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact>

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 6:48:37 PM5/17/10
to ravendb
Still working on the strategy, but it is probably going to be some form of per developer licensing.

Ayende Rahien

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May 17, 2010, 6:49:42 PM5/17/10
to ravendb
Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot to put that one in.

Brandon

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May 17, 2010, 6:49:25 PM5/17/10
to ravendb
Seconded.

And also, exactly what does OEM mean? Would that be good for my case,
where I would be deploying thousands of embedded db's? And I wouldn't
know how many thousand, just "many" thousand.

Brandon

On May 17, 5:44 pm, Nick Aceves <nickace...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am curious about how you're going to handle OEM pricing. I have a project
> in the works that will require that. By what's been said so-far it seems
> that you'll handle OEM stuff on a case-by-case basis, but it'd be nice know
> something general about that area.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Ayende Rahien <aye...@ayende.com> wrote:
> > We seem to have reached an agreement, any more comments?
>
> >   Feature  Raven DB
> > Community  Raven DB
> > Commercial  Raven DB
> > Enterprise   Licensing
>
> > *License*
>
> > Open source
> > (AGPLv3)
>
> > Commercial
>
> > Commercial
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
> >    High load & high availability
>
> > *Intelligent sharding support*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > *High availability instance failover*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > *Master / Slave Replication*
> >  Yes, unlimited replicas Single replica only
>
> > Yes, unlimited replicas
>
> > *Master / Slave Replication*
> >  Ys   Yes
>
> > *Online failover to warm spare*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
> >    Extensions
>
> > *Document versioning*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > *Document level security*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
>
> > *Replicate to RDBMS*
>
> > Yes
>
> > Yes
> >    Support & Services
>
> > *Number of incidents per year*
>
> > 2
>
> > 6
>
> > *Response time*
>
> > 3d
>
> > 24h
>
> > *Communication channel*
>
> > Email
>
> > Email
> >   *Telephone support*   379 USD / hour 279 USD / hour   Subscription per
> > month
>
> > Free
>
> > 79 USD
>
> > 449 USD
> >   Perpetual:  Free 1 599 USD 8 599 USD   OEM:  Free Contact us<http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact> Contact
> > us <http://hibernatingrhinos.com/contact>

Michael Davis

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May 17, 2010, 6:45:15 PM5/17/10
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Could you provide any details on what you might be thinking about for an OEM license?  In particular, is this what you'd need if you wanted to use it as an embedded database in a desktop application?

Like someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm interested in using Raven DB in that way, but per-machine licensing wouldn't allow that, and a subscription model also probably wouldn't be appropriate.