New Pawnee AD

[Mark Recht]

The new Pawnee AD2024-05-01 (attached) issued by the Argentinian Aviation Authority is causing quite a stir in the rest of the world.

Potentially any Pawnees over 40 years old will be grounded on September 18th unless an Eddy Current Inspection of the front spar is completed, but no details of the procedure have been provided !

It also requires the installation of 6 hatches in the underside of each wing to allow the screws holding the leading edge skin to the spar web to be removed so the spar web can be inspected for “extra” holes made during repairs.

Does anyone know if the FAA are aware of this AD and going to enforce it or allow any alternative means of compliance ?

Thanks

Mark R

[Bill Tisdale]

This supersedes another Argentine AD issued in 2023 that the FAA did not react to that I can find. Nothing in the AD directory, nothing in the NPRM directory and nothing in the Federal Register. A good awareness item, but until each country provides their own AD based on a foreign country notification, it does not apply to aircraft in that country. Aircraft is grounded only if cracks are found per the inspection in Section I.

LAVIA SA and the Argentine Civil Aviation Authorities will notify the FAA. Register with the FAA for NPRM and AD notification at public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USFAARGL/subscriber/new?pop-t

Bill T

[Roy Bourgeois]

It would be helpful if someone highly literate in Spanish read the original at: https://www.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/apda_2024-05-01_r0.pdf and us their thoughts. 

I'm not sure that this is the best translation.

ROY

[Ron Branham]

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2024, at 2:22 PM, Roy Bourgeois <ro...@bw.legal> wrote:

It would be helpful if someone highly literate in Spanish read the original at: https://www.argentina.gob.ar/sites/default/files/apda_2024-05-01_r0.pdf and us their thoughts. 

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[Mark Recht]

I downloaded the Spanish version of the AD and then google translated to English (attached) and it is subtly different from the Laviasa English version for Pawnees more than 40 years old.

"Comply with LAVIASA Service Bulletin 25-57-11 for cracks in the upper and lower flap area of the front spar, specifically in the fixation area of the leading edge and complement with an NDT Inspection method for eddy currents and identify the affected sector(s)" (my underline)

To my mind the "complement with" means doing the Eddy current inspection regardless of the outcome of the visual inspection.

Mark

[soa...@yahoo.com]

The FAA typically requires technical justification supporting the AD be submitted prior to issuing an equivalent AD in the US. 

[Mark Recht]

Here is an unofficial copy of the SB (also unofficially translated from Spanish).

Mark

On Mon, 19 Aug 2024, at 18:49, Bill Tisdale wrote:

I am having problems finding the SB 25-57-11 mentioned in the document. I do have 25-57-09.

This Argentine AD has no impact on aircraft currently under US registration. Individual owners can take it upon themselves to inspect IAW the factory SBs with the AD in mind. They might make a private note that an initial look at the aircraft was completed and what was found. But I would not be putting any reference to the Argentine AD into the official aircraft logbooks. They could make entries about SB compliance in the US aircraft logbook.

BT

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/d0d78cd0-509f-4a02-a5da-0c565229c79cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Tisdale]

thanx

[Michael Opitz]

Has anyone heard any more about this potential AD for the USA?

Mike Opitz

RO

[Bill Tisdale]

NO,

Word is there is a new English language copy of LAVIA SA SB 25-57-11. No words from FAA on any actions. Researched the FAA Web for any NPRM on the PA-25s. Nothing found.

SSA Rep Steve Northcraft would be the primary contact on this.

Bill

[Roy Bourgeois]

Mike:

I have been following it and have heard nothing.  I also note that this AD superseded a 2023 AD from Argentina that the US did not follow. The Argentine "problem" being addressed is based on improper repairs (and not any design or manufacturing fault) so I would not expect the US to follow it. There are many airplane wings made the same way and once you go down the rabbit hole of wondering if some have been improperly repaired,  there is no end to that inquiry.  

ROY  

[soa...@yahoo.com]

The following was posted on the SSA website (https://www.ssa.org/forums/topic/pa-25-anac-airworthiness-directive/) back in October:

"Several Members have inquired about the possibility of the FAA issuing an Airworthiness Directive (AD) for the PA-25 Pawnee. The SSA sent an inquiry on the subject to the FAA and received the following reply:

The FAA is currently gathering the appropriate data related to the Argentina AD and is evaluating the unsafe condition and proposed corrective actions. If the FAA takes action to issue a corresponding NPRM/AD, then these will be available on the regulations.gov website. At this time, the FAA is aware of some exemptions that have been granted by other aviation authorities. Since this is currently an ANAC AD, it’s not mandated for US operators.”

The Aviation authorities that issued the exemptions did so because (I believe) they have reciprocal agreements with ANAC, which the US does not.  As stated earlier, if the FAA determines that the "problem... is based on improper repairs" (probably not performed in an authorized repair facility either), I do not expect the FAA to take action.  But as I told the FAA 2 months ago, 'if you are going to do something do it now, not next May".

[soa...@yahoo.com]

The following was posted on the SSA website (https://www.ssa.org/forums/topic/pa-25-anac-airworthiness-directive/) back in October:

Several Members have inquired about the possibility of the FAA issuing an Airworthiness Directive (AD) for the PA-25 Pawnee. The SSA sent an inquiry on the subject to the FAA and received the following reply:

“The FAA is currently gathering the appropriate data related to the Argentina AD and is evaluating the unsafe condition and proposed corrective actions. If the FAA takes action to issue a corresponding NPRM/AD, then these will be available on the regulations.gov website. At this time, the FAA is aware of some exemptions that have been granted by other aviation authorities. Since this is currently an ANAC AD, it’s not mandated for US operators.”

The authorities granting the exemptions did so because (I believe) they have a reciprocal agreement with ANAC, which the US does not have.  As stated earlier, if the "problem... is based on improper repairs", and/or not performed in an approved facility, I would not expect the FAA to take further action. As I explained to the FAA 2 months ago, "if you are going to do something do it now, not next May."

On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 9:35:33 AM UTC-8 Roy Bourgeois wrote:

[soa...@yahoo.com]

The following was posted on the SSA website ( PA-25 ANAC Airworthiness Directive | Soaring Society of America  ) back in October:

Several Members have inquired about the possibility of the FAA issuing an Airworthiness Directive (AD) for the PA-25 Pawnee. The SSA sent an inquiry on the subject to the FAA and received the following reply:

“The FAA is currently gathering the appropriate data related to the Argentina AD and is evaluating the unsafe condition and proposed corrective actions. If the FAA takes action to issue a corresponding NPRM/AD, then these will be available on the regulations.gov website. At this time, the FAA is aware of some exemptions that have been granted by other aviation authorities. Since this is currently an ANAC AD, it’s not mandated for US operators.”

The authorities granting the exemptions did so because (I believe) they have reciprocal agreements with ANAC, which the FAA does not.  If as stated earlier, the FAA finds that the "problem... is based on improper repairs" (not performed in an approved facility?), I would not expect the FAA to take further action.  But as I explained to the FAA 2 months ago, "if you are going to do something do it now, not next May."

On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 9:35:33 AM UTC-8 Roy Bourgeois wrote:

[soa...@yahoo.com]

The following was posted on the SSA website back in October:

Several Members have inquired about the possibility of the FAA issuing an Airworthiness Directive (AD) for the PA-25 Pawnee. The SSA sent an inquiry on the subject to the FAA and received the following reply:

“The FAA is currently gathering the appropriate data related to the Argentina AD and is evaluating the unsafe condition and proposed corrective actions. If the FAA takes action to issue a corresponding NPRM/AD, then these will be available on the regulations.gov website. At this time, the FAA is aware of some exemptions that have been granted by other aviation authorities. Since this is currently an ANAC AD, it’s not mandated for US operators.”

On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 9:35:33 AM UTC-8 Roy Bourgeois wrote:

[soa...@yahoo.com]

test

On Tuesday, December 24, 2024 at 9:35:33 AM UTC-8 Roy Bourgeois wrote:

[Luis]

Here us a discussion from Australia including example pictures:
https://magazine.glidingaustralia.org/airworthiness/piper-pawnee-airworthiness