gear warning ( or not)

[john firth]

greetings to all.

for the last 50 years I have had a gear warning system, and it has saved damage and embarrassment several times even though my normal practice is to lower the gear BEFORE entering the circuit.

S.A.C.  CLUB DOWNWIND STANDARD CHECKS;  SWAFTS

If you are startled by  gear warning as you are about to flare, then you have been negligent in doing downwind checks.  You missed

TWO items!

S  straps  probably OK
W  Wheel  = gear  lowered and locked
A airspeed
F   Flap setting for approach ( Landing setting on final)
T  Traffic  air and ground.
S  spoilers;  if you get a warning , then you forgot W!

You  can check the warning system  in the air by opening  the spoilers,

gear up.

I shall keep my gear warning system!

John Firth  ( old , no longer bold pilot)

[John DeRosa]

Gear warning systems are, to me, critically important.

For those that currently don't have a gear warning system 

here is some information to get you going.

https://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations/#gearwarning

John (OHM)

[jcl2vbl]

FWIT, My last 3 ships had gear warning horns that sounded all the time the spoilers were deployed if the gear was retracted. Standard stuff. The horn went silent when the gear was extended. But even with the gear extended (in my case usually on down wind) my gear warning would beep two or three times. I'm guessing it was built that way so as to have you, the pilot, double check your gear before getting too far into the landing sequence. It bothered me the first few times it happened and now I appreciate the reminder to double check. As a pilot who "has" I don't mine the second heads up.

John Lincoln

[John DeRosa]

John Lincoln,

 Sounds like you had micro switches (rather than magnetic switches)

in your gear warning system which can trigger due to turbulence (switch bounce).

But better safe than sorry!

John (OHM)

[Hank Nixon]

I use a simple "switch the clip" method to remind me if I have not put the gear down.

The clip I use is from a surplus battery charger cable.

It starts on the gear handle after I have put the gear down at assembly.

After takeoff and release I move the clip to the spoiler handle and retract the gear.
 I reverse this when I put the gear down before landing.

If I forget I know I will feel the clip on the spoiler handle and be reminded to do the gear.

No switches, no magnets, no hard adjustments, no dead batteries, no screaming alarm if there is a failure.

And it's cheap.

This non tech solution has worked well for me.

FWIW

UH

[Cliff Hilty]

Yes Hank, we used a big hair clip on our club cirrus. Never had an incident! 🪮

Cliff

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[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

Although the fault was clearly mine, this method was a contributing
factor in my one an only gear up landing. It was a ridge day with low
clouds and I had to use near constant spoilers, with the clip, to keep
out of the clouds. After a while, holding the spoiler with the clip was
so normal that when it came time to land..... I suspect that a
constantly sounding buzzer would have prompted me to lower the gear in
this situation.

Ya gotta love landing on grass as there was zero damage but oh,
afterwards hearing the phrase "there are two kinds of pilots ...." got
to be just a little annoying 🙂.

Tony

[Cliff Hilty]

Ive seen (and Heard) several gear up landings with gear warnings and without, but my close call was a change in routine. Coming in to land in my Ventus B at Turf Soaring on a Friday after a long day and t-storms all around. Being the only pilot flying that day and winds were switching and strong out of the NE so decide to land across the open middle of  the three runways and end up right in the tie down area. John at the desk answered my call for what I was going to do with a "affirmitive I'll grab a golf cart and meet you on the other side and help you tie down". As I set up on short final, wind was blowing around 40. So I was hovering down and at about 50 ' I saw John travelling across the runways to meet me. I could see him pick up a handheld and as I was less the 10' he calmly said "CH check gear!" Well needless to say I had just enough time to push the gear lever forward as I touched down! I bought John a steak dinner!🤑

CH

Cliff

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[Eric Greenwell]

Did you consider extending the gear? That would maintain your normal procedure, and also help you stay low.

Eric

[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

I did not. In hindsight, that would have been the thing to do.

T.

[Ian Molesworth]

Had a few discussions about a radio call on finals to a ship without the wheel down.

The general feeling appears to be that its quite a dangerous thing to do. Someone fiddling with the gear lever at 30' might actually be distracted enough to screw up what could actually have been almost a non-event.

My gear up event, with gear warning, was following a 'competition finish', pull up, start the turn to late downwind, drop the gear. Turn finals, over the fence, glance down, is the gear up? Did It drop it? Damn! No I didn't ...... cycle gear ....... what's that alarm? .... touchdown and slide along the summer grass runway.

A combination of a long days flying, possible minor dehydration, high workload ( 5' almost Vne pass ) and shortened circuit.

I now drop the gear the moment I have made the decision to land .... I am in landing mode. But also as I cross the fence there is a last, positive gear check which goes, gear down? Lever is forward! tab is showing!

I have an LX9050 in the panel with airbrake, water, flap and gear position sensors. I haven't had the 'check gear' alert in a long time, even when opening the brakes in wave or descending through cloud. I think the LX also filters the brakes/gear alert on height AGL.

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[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

Last year, a club member landed an ASW19b on the grass. I walked up and
the pilot said "it stops pretty quick in the tall clover". I remarked
"yes, especially when the gear is up". He had no clue up to that point.
Again, no damage. That glider needs a gear warning.

On 3/15/2025 3:42 PM, Ian Molesworth wrote:
>
> Had a few discussions about a radio call on finals to a ship without
> the wheel down.
>
> The general feeling appears to be that its quite a dangerous thing to
> do. Someone fiddling with the gear lever at 30' might actually be
> distracted enough to screw up what could actually have been almost a
> non-event.
>

Agreed.

T.

[*Eric Greenwell1*]

I know a number of pilots that were warned over the radio, successfully extended the gear, then landed without damage. Some were on final, some had already flared. Some landed without getting the gear extended, so they had damage, but no injuries. I can't recall any that suffered damage or injury because of a warning.

Obviously, that's not everyone's experience, leading to the "warnings are dangerous" concern. Are there any examples of injury/damage that would have been avoided without the warning?

Eric

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[Tom]

I personally saw a well meaning person radio a glider pilot pretty close to the ground (50'?) that their gear was up.  The glider pilot was unable to multitask in the moment and ended up stalling the glider into the ground with the gear partially extended breaking parts on the gear and snapping the tailwheel off.

Tom

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[Steve Koerner]

Here's something to consider to the extent that you rely on a landing checklist... Instead of  Gear Down, it is better that your checklist reads: Gear Handle Forward. My checklist also includes Water Knob Forward instead of something like Dump Water Ballast. Specifying the position of the control reduces the amount of brain energy required and eliminates a class of mistakes that can and do happen to pilots.

[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

That, of course, works if you fly only one glider. Too bad that the gear
lever position is not standard - the like stick and rudder.

T.

[David Joyce]

Mine is "Gear handle next to gear down placard"

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[jcl...@gmail.com]

Eventually someone is going to tie the gear warning to your altitude above the ground. I’m almost surprised it hasn’t already been done. (Or maybe it has and I’m just ignorant.)

JCL2

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[Ian Molesworth]

Lx9xxx series does that.

Preset altitude, asi below 125 kph, flat terrain and negative vario.

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[Bill Tisdale]

SeeYouMobile on the Oudie also can be set for GEAR CHECK with a loud horn. It only lasts a few seconds. Mine is set at 500ftAGL.

Bill

[Chip Bearden]

There was a pilot at one of the Caesar Creek Soaring Club contests many years ago who was warned, inaccurately, that his gear was still up just before he touched down. In his haste to actuate the gear lever, he apparently bumped the stick and hit hard with the gear partially down. It damaged the glider quite a bit and hurt his back. 

About that time, the standard radio call became "[Contest Number], check your gear". From the finish gate half a mile away, it apparently looked like his wheel was still up as he neared the ground headed at them with the dive brakes out and nose down. 

Like UH, I use a clip that I transfer back and forth from gear lever to dive brakes and back. It's worked so far!!! I didn't install a gear warning horn for a long time or use any reminder apart from a landing checklist because in an early contest in another glider, I landed with the gear warning horn going off in my ear. I knew I'd put the gear down and my mind basically ignored the noise (it was my first low pass and pull up, so I was focused on getting the glider down safely). I figured if I could ignore the horn once, what was the guarantee I'd pay any attention to it if it happened again? 

Bad decision. My gear-up landing occurred when I eased up the ridge at Elmira on a low finish to get just high enough to flop onto the end of the runway. Because I was below glidepath for 50+ miles and made up the deficit only in the last 1/2 mile after I hit the ridge, I never mentally shifted into landing mode. It would have been a non-event since I touched down on grass...except for the fact that I slid up over the end of the towplane runway and crunched the belly. UH got me flying the next day and we repaired it properly after the contest. I wrote about both of these events (and a host of other trials over the years) in my book,  "Goodbye, Papa Golf" (shameless commercial plug!). 

Checklists are great--I have one for every occasion--until you forget to use them.

Chip Bearden 

ASW 24 "JB"

[Hank Nixon]

My gear up, which led to the clip, was due to distraction.

I finished a task at Perry, pulled up, and announced UH downwind Perry landing east.

Immediately I heard "Name not mentioned" downwind Perry, landing east.

Nobody in sight, I'm about to get hit.

Now not in routine, I did not put the gear down.

I called no joy to the other pilot. No response.

Clear area, turn base, and call UH base Perry landing east.

"Name not mentioned" calls base Perry landing east.

WTF!!!!

I flew final landing short to try not to get hit.

Slide job. This was the 5th flight after I refinished the ship. 

Not pleased, especially when I saw "Name not mentioned" rolling out in the opposite direction.

After 10,000 non gear up landings, I went to the clip method.

Getting older probably does not help the odds.

FWIW

UH 

[Charles Mampe]

I, like others, use a big clip. I have still had a couple gear up, 1 gear collapse (not far in front of a landing UH!".

Overall, I have had good success with the clip, even worked when I landed with dead batteries.

[Roy Bourgeois]

I use a redundant system with an independent micro switched obnoxious alarm along with the LX9000 warning set to 600'  AGL. That's worked well so far. But 3 times I've finished a task and forgot to dump the water until I noticed the turn to final was a little sluggish . . .

ROY

[Chip Bearden]

Good point, Roy. We don't talk much about it, but landing heavy unintentionally is another risk, although not in the same category as gear up. As long as we're confessing as a public service, I've done it twice, both times after low, fast finishes and pull ups. The first time, I turned a high final (my usual preference) and slipped the ASW 24 to help get rid of the altitude. It flew just fine despite the partial ballast load shifting toward the down wing, and I didn't notice anything amiss until the rollout was longer than usual. Interestingly, the same non-issue regarding control was true when I landed with one wing empty and the other full in my LS3 way back when a defective ballast dump cable fitting pulled loose. I didn't realize anything was wrong until the wing went down hard near the end of the rollout but it might have been a different story if I'd had to land out. 

"Water ballast dumped" is another item on my checklist, which I always use...except for the very few times over 60 years that I've been distracted. I don't fly ballasted very much anymore or I might seriously consider a second clip on the dive brake handle for it.

Chip Bearden

ASW 24 "JB"

[Joe Gieseke]

Would someone please outline the use of the clip procedure, as a gear down reminder.
This is the first I've heard of it.

Joe G

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[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

On 3/18/2025 10:57 AM, Joe Gieseke wrote:
>
> Would someone please outline the use of the clip procedure, as a gear
> down reminder.
> This is the first I've heard of it.
>

After take off, when you raise the gear, take the clip from the gear
handle and place it on the spoiler handle.
When you lower the gear, take the clip from the spoiler handle and move
it to the gear handle.

When you activate your spoilers on landing, if the clip is still on the
spoiler handle, you have not lowered your gear.

T.

[Chip Bearden]

I've used a big plastic hair clip (worked great--the jaws were curved--but fragile), a metal spring clip (a little too much force to open), and (most recently), a plastic clip for closing half-empty bags of chips ("crisps" for my non-U.S. friends). The latter are also a little fragile (referring to the plastic bag clips, not the chips) but at 4 for a few bucks, I now have enough to last for a while. The clip has to be small enough not to get  in the way or knocked off or damaged by your leg as you climb into the cockpit (I leave mine on the gear handle) but large enough to notice if you grab the dive brakes and it's still there. Not a lot of technology involved but, as with anything else in soaring, different pilots have different solutions.

Back in the 60s, Steve DuPont proposed having a length of cord with loops on each end. One loop went over the gear handle and then the cord ran forward through a plastic housing, turned, and came back along the other side of the cockpit and looped over the dive brake handle. The idea was that if the gear lever was aft (retracted for many, though not all gliders), you wouldn't be able to pull the dive brake handle aft to open them; you'd have to lower the gear first. 

He admitted that could cause problems in certain situations and explained that having some slack in the cord would allow the pilot to flip the loop off either handle in an emergency. The idea had some appeal, but the possibility of being physically unable to use the dive brakes in certain situations was a little discouraging. I toyed with the idea of having a button and quick release on the dive brake lever instead of a loop, but eventually went with a gear warning horn for a few years, no device of any kind for many years, an eventual wheel-up landing, and then the clip (good so far!).

Chip Bearden

ASW 24 "JB"  

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[martypautz]

It's the same as the tennis ball technique. 

I have a hole cut in the tennis ball big enough to go over the gear  and spoiler handles. 

I start the take off with the ball on the gear handle.  When I retract the gear, I move the ball from the gear handle to the spoiler handle.

During my landing routine, I lower the gear and then move the ball back from the spoiler to the gear handle. ... all is good.

If I grab the spoiler and the ball is still on it, that means that I goofed and  I had not lower the gear!

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[verhulst.t...@gmail.com]

My "clip" was the cardboard tube from an empty toilet paper roll.

T.

[Joe Gieseke]

Thanks for the replies. 

Joe

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[Mark Mocho]

A clip may serve as a reminder, but in a stressful situation, moving the clip (or ball) may be just adding an extra step. It's entirely possible for your brain to register the act of moving the clip as actually lowering the gear.

I prefer an actual microswitch activated circuit on the spoiler and landing gear actuators. Note that the landing gear switch should ONLY come into play when the gear is fully down and locked. I have seen switches at the forward end of the actuator range, meaning that the system "thinks" the gear is down as soon as the handle is out of the detent. This is wrong! It should cut the circuit when the landing gear is in the "down" detent.

The electronic beepers many pilots use should be annoying enough that you pay attention to them, but after years of race cars and shooting, I have lost some of my hearing in almost exactly that frequency. I can barely hear the squealing of a piezoelectric horn. Also, with the assorted beeps and boops from flight computers and variometers, not to mention the aircraft radio, it is possible to filter out another unexpected noise in the cockpit. As a solution, I wired a couple of flashing red/blue LED bulbs into the circuit (along with a "test" button. There is NO mistaking flashing red/blue lights in your face. Since nothing else in the cockpit lights up or flashes, the visual impact of the LEDs can only mean ONE thing. Drop the gear!

And yes, I am a member of the "landed gear up club" as well as the "might do it again club."

[Nicholas Kennedy]

Bill Tisdale

How do you navigate to the screen on the Oudie to set the gear warning height?

Nick

A2

[Moshe Braner]

I wonder how it determines your height AGL?  Is it based on the airport database?  What if you're landing off-airport?  Then presumably it has some sort of "digital elevation model" in its map data.  How detailed is that?

[Charles Mampe]

I assume a topo database, this would also be the reference for the "glide amoeba " in a ClearNav (assume others are similar).

Elevations are likely granular to reduce size, but good enough. If finer resolution is needed, you're already in trouble.

[David Kraus]

Properly installed gear warning saved me from gear collapse last year. I landing for first time new type of glider and get buzz at final, after opening breaks. Gear was down but not locked - new plane and I don't know how hard I have to push to lock gear. So from my perspective it can be very usefull.

[Moshe Braner]

It's not simple, in areas that are not flat.  What if you're over a ridge?  At our airfield the ground in the area where I would often put the gear down is 1000 feet higher than the airport, and I am only a few hundred feet above that ground.  Or I may be there but still trying to find lift - possibly just got off tow.  Similar issues arise in attempting to set a "floor" below which one is considered to have landed out, for scoring purposes.

[Mark Mocho]

You definitely don't want to get "used" to having your gear warning go off while over ridges or other high terrain. Pretty soon, you will learn to ignore it in these situations, which will lead to ignoring it when landing.

[Nicholas Kennedy]

Moshe

With the Oudie you set the field elevation at launch.

Then with the very good loaded maps it can give you AGL in one of the Nav Boxes.

It tends to be accurate .

Nick

A2

[*Eric Greenwell1*]

I agree with you, but Naviter says: 

" You’ll get a friendly “Check Gear” warning when flying sailplanes close to flat ground."

Apparently, Oudie will not alert you over ridges or mountains.

Eric

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[Chip Bearden]

Top Hat offers an infobox (which I added to my config) that provides altitude above the ground. It's very accurate, as far as I can tell, including over hills, up/down slopes, and ridges/mountains. Obviously it's only as good as the topo data in the map but I refer to it frequently and have never seen anything odd. I assume XCSoar, from which Top Hat was forked, has the same capability since it also uses the same map files. 

As with anything else in life, nothing is all good or bad. It can be disconcerting to see your altitude AGL suddenly shrink alarmingly as you cross a ridge, even though you have plenty of altitude over both easily reachable valleys. Likewise, a comfortable margin over the ground is meaningless if the only landable fields are up the valley at higher elevation. 

Chip Bearden

ASW 24 "JB"

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[SS]

On my flaps-only glider (no spoilers), a nylon string tied near the intrument panel at the forward end and looped over the flaps handle at the aft end allows the flaps to deploy up to +20°, enough for takeoff, thermaling, etc., but not enough for a normal landing.  The nylon loop is easily slipped off the handle during the before-landing check.  If forgotten, the string gives a gentle but firm reminder when the pilot tries to deloy landing flaps.

[SS]

I should have said, "If forgotten, the string gives a gentle but firm reminder to check the Undercarriage...".  The string is the gear-down reminder, even if it's attached to the flaps handle.

[*Eric Greenwell1*]

My Butterfly vario (aka "Air Glide Display S") warning is a distinctive female voice saying "Gear not extended)". It stands out from the beeps and boops the other devices make. Or make your own: search for "voice recording module" on Amazon, and you find this sort of thing: https://a.co/d/gmUC6mu

Don't be frightened by the link. It's what Amazon gives when you click the "Share" icon - - in the ad.

Eric

On 3/20/2025 9:44 PM, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:

https://www.amazon.com/3-Piece-Punching-Tabletop-Adults%EF%BC%9BStocking-Stuffers/dp/B0DM1ZFVXK/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1SKWAEVJKU7WE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.V7DJFHpKQ32jGziBuhJ5ahcZNXrXBEe0f0MgUgZmzJBHnUK7GMatH7M6GQ20c8GaZEEefqtc-twefIldfrCn7o6C1hOTNC29OqapA49tS1dOQhzipGbkryrSjx74rff4y7EjAOs4BFY2oaivABrvZvNasw97y_qs2ka-k70dj300fL9VXFiHq9EEbc65_jvESHBb97MotLDAH1-bKtP_xezqiCqY4el_84VFIkep8lY.tmxw3hDI_Bt2bBpwKHzy3fz54vzoswLFEtTr86qCQKg&dib_tag=se&keywords=boxing+glove+on+a+spring+gag+toy&qid=1742531714&sprefix=boxing+glove+on+a+spring+gag+toy%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-5

Gear Horns are often ignored in a high stress situation

Lights can bring on a Epileptic attack at the wrong time.

Strings can get wrapped around your neck

Hair tie clips get picked up by the ever present crowd of women around.

All of the above have MAJOR PROBLEMS!

Alot of pilots have a extra instrument hole.

Put the boxing glove in there and wire that baby up to you gear alarm.

Hard to ignore a punch to the face!!

Nick

A2

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[Bud Shaw]

I came here today to learn more about the gear warning on my ASH-26e after having landed gear up on grass and thinking the gear must have self-retracted. Didn't cross my mind that I hadn't put it down, even when the smell of charing polyurethane filled my nostrils.  Ironically, during the flight of an hour or so, a woman kept nagging me to "check gear". The gear was up and locked, and the airbrakes were retracted and locked.  I made plans to look into why I was getting false alarms.  I wasn't planning to share my own story, but I've learned so much from this thread that I felt I should do so and not feel as much shame as I do.

At least half of my 55 years of flying powered aircraft involved retracting the gear, including a few hundred in amphibians reciting  "This is a WATER landing.  The gear is UP!" (or the reverse).  Never came close to landing gear up.  When I started flying gliders a few years ago, a guy with a Taurus to sell told me he was going to had a homemade gear warning to his ship and he'd include it in the sale.  I thought that was not a bad idea but was put off by "homemade".  I bought a different glider. 

I've since flown in 8 different models of gliders (three motorgliders) and only two have had gear warnings: two Grob 102 Astir CS (one a CS77) and my ASH-26e.  I have always appreciated the loud alarm when I test the spolilers in the Grob on entering the pattern at least 1,000' AGL.  After climbing out of my —26 last week and beating myself up over how utterly incompetent I am, I realized that I didn't recall hearing the gear warning at any point during the landging sequence.  I also, for the first time in decades, did not use the checklist because it was a flip chart that I'd need to flip down to go through and by then I was becoming increasingly distracted trying to communicate with two powered aircraft wanting to land at the same time (the two of them were completely confused about where they were in relationship to each other and to me), and a call from my ground crew asking me to land the opposite direction since mine was the "hangar" flight.  This was also only my fourth flight in this particular glider, but I was very comfortable flying it and think that even with lots more experience I might have still been distracted enough to forget critical steps.

My glider is in its trailer right now so I have an opportunity to test the function of the gear warning, starting with figuring out if my LX NAV 9000 is properly set up.  I'd love some advice on how best to do that!

[ka...@uplink.net]

Reminder gizmo: A round half inch section of foam rubber slid over the handle.

 

From: rasp...@googlegroups.com <rasp...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Bud Shaw
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2025 1:01 PM
To: RAS_Prime <rasp...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RAS_Prime] Re: gear warning ( or not)

 

I came here today to learn more about the gear warning on my ASH-26e after having landed gear up on grass and thinking the gear must have self-retracted. Didn't cross my mind that I hadn't put it down, even when the smell of charing polyurethane filled my nostrils.  Ironically, during the flight of an hour or so, a woman kept nagging me to "check gear". The gear was up and locked, and the airbrakes were retracted and locked.  I made plans to look into why I was getting false alarms.  I wasn't planning to share my own story, but I've learned so much from this thread that I felt I should do so and not feel as much shame as I do.

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[John DeRosa]

I am of the school of thought entitled "simplest is best as long as its electrical".  Electrical because with a contest ID of "OHM" I have no choice.   ;-)

Thus the gear warning system in my '27 is based on a shrill buzzer, two (magnetic) switches, and some wire - plus some battery power.

For a pulse pounding presentation, with animation, of all things gear warning please be sure to spend an quiet evening watching https://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations/#gearwarning. 

Thanks, John (OHM)