Slow tows etc...

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, June 8, 2026 at 5:00:38 PM UTC-4 Kirk Stant wrote:

...Slow tows when ballasted are definitely a problem...

Fighting thread drift on the tow-accident thread...

Hope this is helpful: Some notes on towing speed in here...

[Tango Eight]

I am -really- glad we won’t have a concurrent sports class at 18m nats. 

I’ve had two dangerously slow tows, in both cases at ballast allowed nationals contests with a concurrent dry sports regional contest.   In each case the tug pilot simply thought he had a sports class glider on. In one case, we sorted it out in the radio. In the second case there was a radio problem in the tug and I finally fell off the (by now) deep low tow, fortunately at a recoverable altitude. 

It’s not a terrible idea to confirm tow speed at hook up time. I do this routinely in club ops now. 

Evan 

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

T8

Maybe I'm wrong.

Releasing low and too slow makes loosing instantly 100lbs+ pull force and is extremely dangerous.

Zigzaking would increase 30% your glider travel  and get  the tow pilot attention. 

Ryszard Krolikowski 

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[Hank Nixon]

You are wrong.

A 1200 Lb glider with a 40:1(conservative) glide angle would have not much over 40 lb of rope tension in steady state tow.

The zig zag is more likely to cause the glider to depart controlled flight or upset the tug making it need your beloved TOST release.

Too slow is too slow.

The only small thing the glider can do is add flap. if equipped. to add a little lift and twist the wing if moved into landing flap.

And beg for speed.
UH 

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

I'm not arguing about 40 lbs  of rope pull at Okay speed and 100 lbs when you hang way down and think you are going to die.

Please Don't release!

Ryszard

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[Ryszard Krolikowski]

I know you had just fast response, and it's forgiven.

But!

But if you can launch 1200 lbs 40 to 1 glider with let say electric proposition or gasoline engine, with 40 lbs thrust I'm first to buy.

Ryszard

[Tango Eight]

You will release, one way or another, when the glider will no longer obey your commands. I think everyone in 100 miles heard me yelling on the radio, except the guy that needed to.  This happened on a practice day, of course.  The event was discussed briefly that evening with the CM&CTP, standard procedures tuned a bit, all good from there on.  

A good procedure in my view, especially if you are launching gliders of wide ranging requirements for any reason, it a crisp radio exchange, for instance "36Y, T8, 75 kts"  "T8, 36Y roger, 75 kts".

Evan / T8

On Wednesday, June 10, 2026 at 2:32:58 PM UTC-4 Ryszard Krolikowski wrote:

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

I fly JS3 jet , 52 to 1 in SA with a sustainer. This is not climbing Pawnee, and I barely can hold my altitude with 90 lbs thrust.

See specs below.

Ryszard Krolikowski

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

T8,

Never say a number, like 75, just 5 miles more.

Smooth incoming air for tow plane and crazy turbulent air for your air speed indicator are at min 5 kts wrong and at max 12 kts wrong , I think.

And maybe I'm wrong.

But your wings feel what I feel.

Ryszard Krolikowski

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[Tango Eight]

Ryszard:

This thread is about my experience of total communication -failure- and 15 knots too slow.  On the ground, at hook up time, it is appropriate to ask for a tow speed.  In flight, sure, we ask for increments, been doing that forever.  In the case of my not quite accident I was in fact asking for "15 kts, right now!"

T8

[Ryan Bluestein]

I have an easy solution... Fly older club class gliders :)

I've never had a Pawnee towing me too slow, but of course my max gross is probably pretty close to your guys' empty weight.

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[Ryszard Krolikowski]

Those guys released 4 yrs ago

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[Ryszard Krolikowski]

To keep kite flying on the beach with to weak breeze we use sideways kiting from side to side.

Maybe sideways glider kiting, 200ft zig zag, would keep glider afloat and get tow pilot attention?

No danger for the tow pilot.

Ryszard

On Wed, Jun 10, 2026, 10:21 PM Hank Nixon <uncl...@earthlink.net> wrote:

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[Andrzej Kobus]

In 2013 I was full of water in ASG29. I communicated with the tow pilot before launching, then he flew dangerously too slow. I yelled on the radio and nothing happened. I made it that day. The same month I bought my first self launcher to avoid situations like this. We have all kinds of tow pilots some are very disciplined others come tired or day dreaming or just fall into a routine. There is simply not enough continuous education on both sides of the rope. Inattentive glider pilots can kill tow pilots and inattentive tow pilots can kill glider pilots. These should be topics discussed daily in clubs, not once in a while. Flying demands professionalism and following procedures written in blood. 

On a happy note my new self launcher arrives today :)

Everyone stay safe, what we do is dangerous and it requires proper risk management every day we fly. Manage your risks and talk to others about managing their risks.

Andrzej

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[Tango Eight]

So I guess I can speak from experience.  What happens when you are much too slow is that you lose aileron control first.  Elevator works fine, rudder works a little, but compromised.  Roll control will decay to nonexistent, so you may well roll off the tow before you fall off the tow.  You will of course descend into  low tow, then very deep low tow, whether that was your plan or not.  All of this -should- and normally -will- get a tow pilot's attention.  But to the idea of maneuvering on tow to "fix" a slow tow?  Well, no, even if you could do that, which you cannot, the physics isn't sound.  The tow pilot either maintains enough speed for you to fly or he doesn't. If he doesn't then you fall off, drop about 200' into a  normal glide... or into some place you don't want to be.

These problems are (fortunately) rare, but potentially deadly serious.  The guys with the best procedures, training & practice will have better outcomes.
 

T8