Re: [RAS_Prime] Digest for rasprime@googlegroups.com - 10 updates in 1 topic

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Warner Springs has many instructors that own and regularly fly long XC flights. 

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On Sep 10, 2025, at 3:00 PM, rasp...@googlegroups.com wrote:



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• CFIG's with Silver Badges - 10 Updates

CFIG's with Silver Badges

Jeffrey N Banks <j...@mtaonline.net>: Sep 09 02:03PM -0800 Ryszard,   Thanks   I have not heard the term Master Instructor in the US. Is that a qualification from the SSA?   Sincerely Jeff Banks

Glenn Betzoldt <disc...@gmail.com>: Sep 09 04:22PM -0700 Yes SSA. Shawn Knickerbockers set up the program.   On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 5:03:57 PM UTC-5 Jeffrey N Banks wrote:

Cliff Hilty <cliff...@gmail.com>: Sep 09 04:41PM -0700 Rysard, mentioned 80% do not have xc experience. I dont think that is true. Of all of the instructors that I have met in my 35 years of flying its more like 80% DO have the experience of at least silver badge equivelent. It would be interesting to see the actual numbers though.   Cliff CFIG with 1000k diplome 😉

Charles Mampe <charli...@gmail.com>: Sep 09 07:43PM -0700 Jeff, no US FAA XC requirement for a CFIG.   In our club of about 80 members, we have 5 current or lapsed CFIG's.   Active 1- 3 diamond, 1000K, Nationals winner, many times regional winner, WGC pilot. 1- silver C, couple nationals, a number of regionals (won once). 1- some XC, not sure if silver C earned yet.   Inactive 1- gold C, 2 diamonds (distance), multiple nationals and regionals. 1- silver C? and XC miles   Our club may be an outlier, not sure. I do know of sites where even having a CFIG that goes XC can be rare.

Rex Mayes <r...@williamssoaring.com>: Sep 09 03:22PM -0700 Yikes Jeff!   Don't get me started!   I am astonished that the system we have in the US actually works as well as it does.   There are certainly examples of terrible outcomes of poor instruction.   Judging a “bad”, “good” or “Great” is absolutely subjective.   When some one says that one is a good or great instructor, they are likely just saying “ I like / respect that person.. not really judging how the person actually is able to do a good job as an instructor.   I have met many pilots holding instruction priveleges that in my opinion should not be teaching people how to fly.   Very nice folks but do not really show me that they truly “get” aviation.   I can go on but….   See you got me started!   Rex   Sent from my iPhone   On Sep 9, 2025, at 3:03 PM, Jeffrey N Banks <j...@mtaonline.net> wrote:    Ryszard,   Thanks   I have not heard the term Master Instructor in the US. Is that a qualification from the SSA?   Sincerely   Jeff Banks   On Sep 9, 2025, at 1:23 PM, Ryszard Krolikowski <ryszard.k...@gmail.com> wrote:   Jeff,   Many countries require triangle 300km or 4 pts zigzag 500km for instructor licence.   Point is, any instructor should be capable to lead the club operations.   He needs some expierience before letting kids go into bad weather or deadly terrain.   General thinking is : FAA sailplane instructor is most competent person on the field.   Reality in US is that only Master Instructors can fill those shoes.   Some states like UK have 3 tiers for instructor, I think ground school, pattern school, and cross-country school.   Almost 80% of US FAA certified instructors are good only with ground and pattern, because FAA mandates only basics.   This creates huge danger for them( im certified, OMG Im so good, but clueless), and for club less experienced cross country pilots , mostly new pilots with a sick sometimes advice.   Ryszard   On Tue, Sep 9, 2025, 9:40 PM Jeffrey Banks <j...@mtaonline.net> wrote:   Hi all,   To be a US glider instructor there is no requirement for cross country qualification.   I wonder how many of our selfless volunteer CFIG's do not have a Silver Badge and would like to make that achievement?   Would that be a good goal for next year? Put in on the list.   Sincerely   Jeff Banks   --   Thanks for using RAS_Prime!   ---   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com.   To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/8202beda-7def-4f2c-8b6e-558daaaa1365n%40googlegroups.com.   --   Thanks for using RAS_Prime!   ---   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com.   To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CALDP%2BBcnpagRNPF4aNK25P-F1Lxh2kcu1u69FxgYuMyqtg%2BrUQ%40mail.gmail.com.   --   Thanks for using RAS_Prime!   ---   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com.   To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/204F4A99-1A01-43B8-A45D-EE793F01A5AF%40mtaonline.net.

Rex Mayes <r...@williamssoaring.com>: Sep 09 05:04PM -0700 I do have to say however I have seen more very good instructors who teach to high standards than I have “bad” instructors. Rex

Tony Smolder <ts1.s...@gmail.com>: Sep 10 02:56AM An instructor with ATP, CFi, CFIG asked if I would fly with him to teach him to thermal. We tried - he was 45 to 70 mph in a 30 degree 360. I Had to take the controls away to keep from getting sick. We encouraged him to stick to power   Tony   Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: rasp...@googlegroups.com <rasp...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Mayes <r...@williamssoaring.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2025 5:22:05 PM To: rasp...@googlegroups.com <rasp...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [RAS_Prime] CFIG's with Silver Badges   Yikes Jeff! Don’t get me started! I am astonished that the system we have in the US actually works as well as it does. There are certainly examples of terrible outcomes of poor instruction. Judging a “bad”, “good” or “Great” is absolutely subjective. When some one says that one is a good or great instructor, they are likely just saying “ I like / respect that person.. not really judging how the person actually is able to do a good job as an instructor. I have met many pilots holding instruction priveleges that in my opinion should not be teaching people how to fly. Very nice folks but do not really show me that they truly “get” aviation. I can go on but…. See you got me started! Rex Sent from my iPhone   On Sep 9, 2025, at 3:03 PM, Jeffrey N Banks <j...@mtaonline.net> wrote:   Ryszard,   Thanks   I have not heard the term Master Instructor in the US. Is that a qualification from the SSA?   Sincerely Jeff Banks     On Sep 9, 2025, at 1:23 PM, Ryszard Krolikowski <ryszard.k...@gmail.com<mailto:ryszard.krolikowski@gmail.com>> wrote:   Jeff, Many countries require triangle 300km or 4 pts zigzag 500km for instructor licence.   Point is, any instructor should be capable to lead the club operations. He needs some expierience before letting kids go into bad weather or deadly terrain. General thinking is : FAA sailplane instructor is most competent person on the field. Reality in US is that only Master Instructors can fill those shoes. Some states like UK have 3 tiers for instructor, I think ground school, pattern school, and cross-country school. Almost 80% of US FAA certified instructors are good only with ground and pattern, because FAA mandates only basics. This creates huge danger for them( im certified, OMG Im so good, but clueless), and for club less experienced cross country pilots , mostly new pilots with a sick sometimes advice.     Ryszard   On Tue, Sep 9, 2025, 9:40 PM Jeffrey Banks <j...@mtaonline.net<mailto:jnb@mtaonline.net>> wrote: Hi all,   To be a US glider instructor there is no requirement for cross country qualification. I wonder how many of our selfless volunteer CFIG's do not have a Silver Badge and would like to make that achievement? Would that be a good goal for next year? Put in on the list.   Sincerely Jeff Banks         -- Thanks for using RAS_Prime! --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rasprime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/8202beda-7def-4f2c-8b6e-558daaaa1365n%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/8202beda-7def-4f2c-8b6e-558daaaa1365n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.   -- Thanks for using RAS_Prime! --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rasprime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CALDP%2BBcnpagRNPF4aNK25P-F1Lxh2kcu1u69FxgYuMyqtg%2BrUQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CALDP%2BBcnpagRNPF4aNK25P-F1Lxh2kcu1u69FxgYuMyqtg%2BrUQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.     -- Thanks for using RAS_Prime! --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rasprime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/204F4A99-1A01-43B8-A45D-EE793F01A5AF%40mtaonline.net<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/204F4A99-1A01-43B8-A45D-EE793F01A5AF%40mtaonline.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.   -- Thanks for using RAS_Prime! --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rasprime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/C239B3D5-67C7-4A47-BA7B-0641A635DD4B%40williamssoaring.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/C239B3D5-67C7-4A47-BA7B-0641A635DD4B%40williamssoaring.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Jeffrey N Banks <j...@mtaonline.net>: Sep 09 08:23PM -0800 Rex,   You have a much larger sampling of what we have in the US. I love it when you stand on the soap box.   My point about Silver Badges for CFIG’s is a curiosity about our cross country training capabilities in the US.   The breaking of the tethering string from the home airport is something many aspiring glider pilots don’t do.   I think our CFIG’s might be key to that. Many often don’t get their own cross country training.   There are some very talented mentors that are not CFIG’s and they could be tapped to do that.   As a cross country affectionato, I wonder if getting more CFIG’s to Silver (or better yet Gold) badge would be a solution to more cross country flying for all.   Sincerely Jeff Banks   PS To get me started! Lets talk about the silliness of Daylight Saving Time : )

Hank Nixon <uncl...@earthlink.net>: Sep 10 04:49AM -0700 One does not have to be a regular XC pilot to train pilots to be safe and ready to progress to bigger things. That said, it is quite valuable to have, in the instructor group, at least one experienced XC pilot to help folks to move beyond local flight if they wish to. We are already short of people willing to dedicate their time to growing the sport. There are people who will progress to XC and ones that are happy flying locally. There is plenty of room for both. FWIW UH   On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 10:45:41 PM UTC-4 Rex Mayes wrote:

Bermuda High Soaring <soari...@mindspring.com>: Sep 10 11:06AM -0400 You don't have to have CFIGs to teach cross country to pilots. Good cross country pilots are a must. It needs to be organized. Task - research - weather - just like a contest.   We held cross country camps where top pilots shared their knowledge and mentor a small group. Everyone shared, everyone learned, everyone advanced.   That said, I did stand up at the breakfast at the SSA convention (I forgot what breakfast) but the point of my comment was; just what you are suggesting here Jeff; a good instructor should have knowledge of cross country and promote the SSA badge program.   The guys that help me out instructing are now flying for the airlines, flying corporate and one moved to Panama, and my last star instructor is about to get married, so I don't have any steady instructors at the moment.   It is great to have people on board who are truly interested in the sport and want to explore possibilities. That said, a good instructor doesn't need to have cross country skills to teach, just be a great instructor. The student can then learn from others in the club that fly cross country on a regular basis. Best to search out the ones that return to the field, not the out landing fellows.... ;)   Jayne Bermuda High Soaring       On 9 Sep 2025 at 20:23, Jeffrey N Banks wrote:

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[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Meant to say Warner Springs has many instructors that own their own sailplanes and regularly fly XC. We also have a FES Dou Discus XL for XC training. 

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On Sep 10, 2025, at 5:43 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud <jonatha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Warner Springs has many instructors that own and regularly fly long XC flights. 

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

Jonathan,

Honestly, how many instructors you have?

How many have Gold Badge, prove to yourself with a number of that badge?

Your field is known to have few top pilots.

Thera are many clubs we never heard of.

Who do you think created saying:

"I don't need no stinking badges"

Their real problem is the thermaling.

You would not fly away from the field if 3/4 of the clouds" don't work"

Thermal is ruling their glider.

Nose of the glider is dancing in waves over and under horizon  and sometimes even stops moving, regardless of the bank.

Maybe SAA creating a Master Instructor with Gold Badge as a minimum would encourage the progress.

Silver badge is required in most of the countries for the private glider license.

This was required in 1973 in Poland.

Cheers 

Ryszard Krolikowski

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[Ron Wallis]

Hi all,

I don’t think we need to require (but maybe lightly push) our CFIGs to fly cross country. There are many CFI-G's that have tons of experience but never flew cross country and have no plans to start now. Many came out of commercial or military flying, and they’ll be the first to tell you they don’t have the bladder for XC flights (as an excuse to politely ask you to stop asking?). They just want to fly and give back.

Also people join clubs for all kinds of reasons; some chasing ratings, some just wanting to get better stick and rudder, and some that want time in power towing. 

Not everyone cares about cross country.

And honestly a lot of clubs don’t have the right equipment for it anyway. Old 1-26’s that need a crew to take apart, trailers that aren’t in great shape, etc. It’s just not practical most of the time.

With that said, I personally believe that the future of any club is encouraging club members to fly cross country. At our club, we are seeing cross country interest growing again from the members that perhaps came to just get the rating. We plan tasks for members wanting to go for their silver badge, we have a whatsapp group just for cross country flyers where we discuss the weather and goals for the upcoming weekend or week day, etc.

Glider training gives a lot, and most of it isn’t about cross country. It’s the friendships, looking after the field and equipment, maintaining a Condor simulator, and helping others to try things they never thought they could do.  

And for me personally, I am inspired by the pilots in my club and elsewhere that push the bounds, flying long cross countries, entering contests, and adding another dimension to this sport that keeps our sport interesting.

Regards,

Ron

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