Re: Digest for ran-@topica.com, issue 1714
Antti Pietilä
ran...@topica.com kirjoitti 02.01.2006 kello 13:50:
> -- Topica Digest --
>
> Weight Training, Was The Art of the Brevet
> By Patk...@aol.com
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:37:12 EST
> From: Patk...@aol.com
> Subject: Weight Training, Was The Art of the Brevet
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------1136061432
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> It is certainly logical and intuitive to believe that weight
> training will
> improve endurance cycling in trained cyclists. I've read, or at least
> read
> of, studies that says weight training will improve performance in
> sprint
> cyclists. Can anyone point to a study that supports the
> proposition that
> lifting
> weights will improve performance in a trained endurance cyclist?
>
> I've found studies showing that runners, swimmers and cross country
> skiers
> have improved performance with weight training but nothing for
> cyclists. I
>
> wonder if the purely concentric nature of cycling is a factor, or
> have the
>
> exercise physiologists failed to design the proper study?
>
> Then again maybe squatting 800 pounds for 5 repetitions is simply not
> helpful to the 24 hour racer executing ~130,000 pedal strokes with each
> leg.
>
> Pat Kilroy
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/strengthening/a/aa123098a.htm
Gives some references to more or less scientific studies about the issue. Personally, the conclusion made souinds reasonable; for the elite level trained individuals, no use about weigths. For the less trained mortals, weight training gives advantage, but so would other training as well.
Antti
...................................................................
Luukku Plus paketilla pääset eroon tila- ja turvallisuusongelmista.
Hanki Luukku Plus ja helpotat elämääsi. http://www.mtv3.fi/luukku
Joel Voelz
I've used Perpetuem quite a bit for cycling from long training rides to The
Death Ride to Brevets, etc. It seems to work very well but it does have all
the drawbacks already listed: comes out of solution very easily so it
constantly needs to be shaken up, goes bad in warm weather, taste gets old
quickly (like most everything else), although it can be varied with
different concentrations.
I still use it for variety but have settled on using two other mixtures as
my main liquid fuel:
- Pure maltodextrin (one cup = 300 calories) with a scoop or two of
Gatorade powder, Tang, or Koolade powder for flavor. This dissolves
instantly, resists spoiling almost forever and the flavor can be varied for
variety.
- Powdered Ensure: This only comes in Vanilla - which already tasted great)
but I add some Ovaltine and love the chocolate or Malt flavor. It only
takes a 1/2 cup got get 300+ calories, dissolves very well and packs small
in a zip bag.
At 03:50 AM 1/2/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>-- Topica Digest --
>
> Weight Training, Was The Art of the Brevet
> By Patk...@aol.com
>
> perpetuem
> By elan...@hotmail.com
>
> Re: perpetuem
> By Cumu...@aol.com
>
> Re: perpetuem
> By bent...@gmail.com
>
> Re: perpetuem
> By M0rc...@comcast.net
>
> Re: perpetuem
> By mik...@patch.com
>
> RE: perpetuem
> By john-mc...@att.net
>
> Re: perpetuem
> By mik...@patch.com
>
> RE: perpetuem
> By john-mc...@att.net
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:37:12 EST
>From: Patk...@aol.com
>Subject: Weight Training, Was The Art of the Brevet
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------1136061432
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>It is certainly logical and intuitive to believe that weight training will
>improve endurance cycling in trained cyclists. I've read, or at least read
>of, studies that says weight training will improve performance in sprint
>cyclists. Can anyone point to a study that supports the proposition that
>lifting
>weights will improve performance in a trained endurance cyclist?
>
>I've found studies showing that runners, swimmers and cross country skiers
>have improved performance with weight training but nothing for cyclists. I
>wonder if the purely concentric nature of cycling is a factor, or have the
>exercise physiologists failed to design the proper study?
>
>Then again maybe squatting 800 pounds for 5 repetitions is simply not
>helpful to the 24 hour racer executing ~130,000 pedal strokes with
>each leg.
>
>Pat Kilroy
>
>-------------------------------1136061432
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>It is certainly logical and intuitive to believe that weight training will
>improve endurance cycling in trained cyclists. I've read, or at least
>read of, studies that says weight training will improve performance in
>sprint cyclists. Can anyone point to a study that supports the
>proposition that lifting weights will improve performance in a trained
>endurance cyclist?
>
>I've found studies showing that runners, swimmers and cross country skiers
>have improved performance with weight training but nothing for
>cyclists. I wonder if the purely concentric nature of cycling is a
>factor, or have the exercise physiologists failed to design the proper study?
>
>Then again maybe squatting 800 pounds for 5 repetitions is simply not
>helpful to the 24 hour racer executing ~130,000 pedal strokes with each
>leg.
>
>Pat Kilroy
>
>-------------------------------1136061432--
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:12:08 +0000
>From: Bob Riggs <elan...@hotmail.com>
>Subject: perpetuem
>
>
>
>I've decided to give Perpetuem a try this season, and was wondering if
>anyone has any suggestions. I'm planning to try it half-strength on a
>century ride to make sure I can tolerate it, and then see how it works
>at full strength for our 200K on January 14. Any advice on preparation,
>logistics, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:08:03 EST
>From: Cumu...@aol.com
>Subject: Re: perpetuem
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------1136081283
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>
>My experience with Perpetuem is largely good, from the perspective of using
>it for running ultramarathons. It does come out of solution pretty easily
>(due
>to the slight content of fats I believe), though not so bad when running. On
>the bike with less jostling and shaking be sure to give the bottle a few
>quick shakes or flipovers to re-mix. I don't like it, like many other
>mixes, when
>it gets really warm though that may be a personal taste issue. This may be
>easily gotten around if controls have ice or cold water, or you can stop en
>route to mix with cold water if you carry the powder with you. You don't
>want to
>pre-mix a bunch and let it sit throughout the day without refrigeration as it
>will go rancid after several hours. I would, for the resuspending issue
>mentioned above, be hesitant to use this in a bladder also.
>
>I like the taste much better than the blandness of the Sustained Energy,
>though I will occasionally mix the Perpetuem with the SE. I've never
>tried it
>half-strength though and obviously that will depend on your individual
>calorie
>requirements. If you are attempting to go with strictly liquids, I have a
>feeling that a 1/2 mix may not cut it. But to augment with solid foods,
>gels, or
>other calorie sources you should be fine.
>
>Hammer does recommend against the use of their products with others
>containing simple sugars. I'm on the fence on this, though far from being
>an elite,
>I've not needed to pay so much attention to this. I do try to stick with the
>complex carbs with fats and protein or BCAAs for long rides/runs, but quite
>frankly a couple of bottles of this or Cytomax and Payday bars has seen me
>through
>several ultras and long rides. Good luck; the stuff works well.
>
>Tim Lofton
>Marysville, WA
>
>I've decided to give Perpetuem a try this season, and was wondering if
>anyone has any suggestions. I'm planning to try it half-strength on a
>century ride to make sure I can tolerate it, and then see how it works
>at full strength for our 200K on January 14. Any advice on preparation,
>logistics, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
>
>-------------------------------1136081283
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>My experience with Perpetuem is largely good, from the perspective of
>using it for running ultramarathons. It does come out of solution pretty
>easily (due to the slight content of fats I believe), though not so bad
>when running. On the bike with less jostling and shaking be sure to give
>the bottle a few quick shakes or flipovers to re-mix. I don't like it,
>like many other mixes, when it gets really warm though that may be a
>personal taste issue. This may be easily gotten around if controls have
>ice or cold water, or you can stop en route to mix with cold water if you
>carry the powder with you. You don't want to pre-mix a bunch and let it
>sit throughout the day without refrigeration as it will go rancid after
>several hours. I would, for the resuspending issue mentioned above, be
>hesitant to use this in a bladder also.
>
>I like the taste much better than the blandness of the Sustained Energy,
>though I will occasionally mix the Perpetuem with the SE. I've never
>tried it half-strength though and obviously that will depend on your
>individual calorie requirements. If you are attempting to go with
>strictly liquids, I have a feeling that a 1/2 mix may not cut it. But to
>augment with solid foods, gels, or other calorie sources you should be fine.
>
>Hammer does recommend against the use of their products with others
>containing simple sugars. I'm on the fence on this, though far from being
>an elite, I've not needed to pay so much attention to this. I do try to
>stick with the complex carbs with fats and protein or BCAAs for long
>rides/runs, but quite frankly a couple of bottles of this or Cytomax and
>Payday bars has seen me through several ultras and long rides. Good luck;
>the stuff works well.
>
>Tim Lofton
>Marysville, WA
>
>I've decided to give Perpetuem a try this season, and was wondering if
>anyone has any suggestions. I'm planning to try it half-strength on a
>century ride to make sure I can tolerate it, and then see how it works
>at full strength for our 200K on January 14. Any advice on preparation,
>logistics, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>-------------------------------1136081283--
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:23:42 -0500
>From: Bent Pilot <bent...@gmail.com>
>Cc: ran...@topica.com
>Subject: Re: perpetuem
>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I did RAIN the last two years. It is 160 miles. This year, I used
>Perpetuem, HammerGel and CytoMax. I ate almost no solid food on the
>ride. The combo worked for me. The Perpetuem has a "pleasing orange
>vanilla flavor". There wasn't much pleasing about it. I ended up
>putting some CytoMax power in with it and it was tolerable. However,
>rgeardless of the taste, the combo approach worked well.
>
>At the end of 160 miles, I had energy and was not beat. In fact, for
>dinner after the ride I only had two pieces of pizza because I was
>not hungry. Overall, it worked so well for me I do plan on continuing
>using it on brevets this year. Hope that helps.
>
>Mark
>On Dec 31, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Bob Riggs wrote:
>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I've decided to give Perpetuem a try this season, and was wondering if
> > anyone has any suggestions. I'm planning to try it half-strength on a
> > century ride to make sure I can tolerate it, and then see how it works
> > at full strength for our 200K on January 14. Any advice on
> > preparation,
> > logistics, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:22:28 -0500
>From: Tom Marchand <M0rc...@comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: perpetuem
>
>
>
> From a logistics point of view, mixing it as paste works best for me.
>
>
>On Dec 31, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Bob Riggs wrote:
>
> > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
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> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I've decided to give Perpetuem a try this season, and was wondering if
> > anyone has any suggestions. I'm planning to try it half-strength on a
> > century ride to make sure I can tolerate it, and then see how it works
> > at full strength for our 200K on January 14. Any advice on
> > preparation,
> > logistics, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
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> > *** Replying to this message will reply to its original sender,
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>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 07:36:28 -0800
>From: mik...@patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
>Cc: Randoneering <ran...@topica.com>
>Subject: Re: perpetuem
>
>
>
>Tom Marchand wrote:
> > From a logistics point of view, mixing it as paste works best for me.
>
>How long does it keep without going bad in that form?
>
>--
> Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
> Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
> http://www.patch.com/words/
> The fortune cookie says:
>You're dead, Jim.
> -- McCoy, "The Tholian Web", stardate unknown
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:04:46 +0000
>From: John McClellan <john-mc...@att.net>
>Subject: RE: perpetuem
>
>
>
>I think the Hammer folks say it will keep 8-12 hours once mixed because
>the proteins will start to ferment, or some other bad process. I've
>certainly noticed that the stuff tastes funny at the end of a hot day.
>
>If you make a paste, be sure to use a screw top water bottle, not a flip
>top. The stuff is so thick that it will force off the flip top, and
>deposit the bulk of the bottle on the porch of the general store in
>Petersham. Which is a really embarrassing mess!
>
>I would also agree with the rec not to cut it to 50%. Try at full
>strength for shorter rides to determine the flavor / digestion works.
>I've used it as primary fuel for BMB for the last 2 years and have no
>reason to change.
>
>
>Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> >
> > Tom Marchand wrote:
> > > From a logistics point of view, mixing it as paste works best for me.
> >
> > How long does it keep without going bad in that form?
> >
> > --
> > Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
> > Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
> > http://www.patch.com/words/
> > The fortune cookie says:
> > You're dead, Jim.
> > -- McCoy, "The Tholian Web", stardate unknown
> >
>
>
>
>John McClellan
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 08:07:20 -0800
>From: mik...@patch.com (Michael Rasmussen)
>Cc: ran...@topica.com
>Subject: Re: perpetuem
>
>
>
>John McClellan wrote:
> > I think the Hammer folks say it will keep 8-12 hours once mixed because
> > the proteins will start to ferment, or some other bad process. I've
> > certainly noticed that the stuff tastes funny at the end of a hot day.
>
>But a paste won't ferment, or rot, at the same rate as a dilute
>solution. Wild yeasts and bacteria need water too.
>
>A side example of this is malt syrup sold to homebrewers. In syrup form
>it is shelf stable. Once it is diluted it can spontaneously ferment.
>
>--
> Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
> Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
> http://www.patch.com/words/
> The fortune cookie says:
>INSIDE, I have the same personality disorder as LUCY RICARDO!!
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:59:09 +0000
>From: John McClellan <john-mc...@att.net>
>Subject: RE: perpetuem
>
>
>
>The attached is copied from the e-caps sponsored endurance list. There
>are also threads specific to mixing HE and perpetuem as paste, and the
>recommendations aren't a whole lot different (but you do get some good
>Dr. Bill techno-talk!). Steve Born sells the stuff, and has certainly
>used it a whole lot more Perpetuem than I have, or ever will, so I'm
>trusting him.
>
>But clearly I need to do more home brewing!
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>The protein component in Sustained Energy and Perpetuem (or in any
>powdered drink mix that doesn't contain preservatives or additives)
>won't have a truly long "shelf life" once mixed; it starts to
>retrodegrade ("ferment") after several hours (less in the heat). This is
>why we have suggested that SE or Perpetuem be consumed within 4-8 hours
>after mixing for best results. The stability of the powder should not be
>affected at all if it's kept dry. However, if some moisture had been
>allowed to seep into the bags it could very much explain why you
>experienced the problems you unfortunately did.
>
>Whenever I carry additional SE or Perpetuem on a long workout I use a
>heavier duty "freezer" bag to carry the powder in (I also carry the
>scoop in the bag). In several years of doing this I've yet to have a
>problem with moisture seeping into the bag(s). Whatever I don't use
>during the workout gets put back into the original container for future
>use. You might want to try this if you haven't already.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Sincerely-
>
>Steve
>
>Steve Born
>Senior Technical Advisor
>Event Sponsorship Coordinator
>800-336-1977
>www.e-caps.com
>
>
>Michael Rasmussen wrote:
> >
> > John McClellan wrote:
> > > I think the Hammer folks say it will keep 8-12 hours once mixed because
> > > the proteins will start to ferment, or some other bad process. I've
> > > certainly noticed that the stuff tastes funny at the end of a hot day.
> >
> > But a paste won't ferment, or rot, at the same rate as a dilute
> > solution. Wild yeasts and bacteria need water too.
> >
> > A side example of this is malt syrup sold to homebrewers. In syrup form
> > it is shelf stable. Once it is diluted it can spontaneously ferment.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
> > Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
> > http://www.patch.com/words/
> > The fortune cookie says:
> > INSIDE, I have the same personality disorder as LUCY RICARDO!!
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>
>
>*** Replying to this message will reply to its original sender, reply or
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>
>End of ran...@topica.com digest, issue 1714
>
>
Joel Voelz
PBP Ancien 2003
Parental Jedi and Cyclist
'Lanterne Rouge' Extraordinaire
jvo...@pobox.com
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