bar end shifter with enough range for SRAM 11 x-horizon

[Bob]

Hello all,

I'm hoping someone might have experience with this, I have setup a 1X system which works excellent with a friction shifter but find the range to come up short (even with SRAM's bar end shifter, which also does not allow for friction shifting - it's made for TRI, not for a CX derailleur).

For anyone not familiar with 1X shifting, this is a single ring up front (in my case, a 42) with a 10 x 42 cassette in the back.

I am looking at this http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sh1kit.htm but wonder if it has the range (I am going to contact them today about that).  Does anyone know of something to extend the range of a friction shifter?  I'm wondering if there's something like a jtek shiftmate that will do that.

Thanks,

Bob

[Bill Gobie]

A JTek Shiftmate will extend the shifter range, but not by a lot. You should contact JTek for the ratios, or work them out from the cable pulls the various derailleurs use. A Problem Solvers Travel Agent will double the cable pull, which has got to be enough. It might make the lever motion too small. There are two models of Travel Agents, one the that turns the cable 90 degrees, and one that leave the cable run straight. All these devices increase the length of the shift cable you need. With down tube shifters that won't matter. With bar ends a standard length cable might not quite reach, and you will need a tandem length shift cable.

Bill

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[Jon Doyle]

One trick I've read is to slide a short piece of flexible small diameter tubing over the shift cable where it meets the shifter pulley, in the groove. Something like heat-shrink tubing should work. Perhaps worth a try; it's an inexpensive experiment.

Jon

Watertown, MA

[Ingle, Bruce]

> Does anyone know of something to extend the range of a friction shifter?

In addition to Jon's suggestion of increasing the shifter's cable recess diameter, you might try Shimano's "Position B" alternate cable attachment at the rear derailleur:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/drivetrain-mixing.shtml#alternate

- Bruce

[Peter Mathews]

Maybe a dumb question, but how is the cluster size related to the shifter you use. I thought that all the shifter was worried about was the number of sprockets.

So I've dig myself into a hole, shoot me down gently. It's a genuine question.

PeterM

--

[Bob]

Not a dumb question.  There is a (indexed - Yuk!!) shifter that works with this cluster/derailleur combo.  It's for mountain bikes, a trigger shifter.  SRAM hasn't come around FULLY to realizing their 1X or 1XX MTB systems are being used in roadbikes (adventure bikes particularly), thus they do not make a good shifter for that market.  They  ARE making a 'brifter' - made for Cyclocross and adopted for road bike also.  BUT I'm not sure my derailleur is a cross derailleur, its MTB (thus, from bike shop pro mechanic) it's not guaranteed a cross brifter will work with my derailleur/cassette combo.  A friction shifting bar end shifter has no indexing issues of course - it will be perfect if it can just pull the entire range.

I did get a good answer from the JTEK folk.  IT was suggested to use the shiftmate "model 6" which offers the most pull ratio.  I'm going to go with that.

I probably don't need that much.  The silver shifters from Rivendell will accommodate 9 cogs.  It's a very wide cassette and the derailleur is EXCELLENT in shifting.  It was very very smooth set on index shifting for me.  The Rivendell guys agreed (they're also trying to work out a solution from my conversation with them).

Bob 

[littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi]

I thought all SRAM road and MT stuff was interchangeable? At least back when I ran my Fargo it was. And now I'm running an Apex 10 with an X9 10spd rear.

I have a friend who was going to use this for his 1x10:

http://www.paulcomp.com/sramshifteradaptor.html

Friction shifting 11spd! Can't imagine that.

[Peter Mathews]

Thanks Bob. You remind me of the subtle agonies we had with various Shimano shifters and derailleurs on Jane's old bike. I have never experienced such difficulties with SRAM bits which I have used on my recumbents.

Peter

[Lounging Longhorn]

No, there is SRAM with 1:1 actuation ratio and 2:1 actuation ratio.
Somewhere. there is a site that has a big chart of actuation ratios
for various Campy Shimano and SRAM drivetrains, but I can't seem to
find it at the moment.

[Bill Gobie]

Perhaps these are the actuation ratios you are looking for:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/components/transmission-gears/derailleur-gears/shimergo

Bill

[littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi]

http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-behind-the-magic/science-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/

[Bob]

I adopted (after much reading and some of my own comparison with my own drivetrain range - primarily using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/) a Shimano 1x10 system using a long-cage XT derailleur, SRAM 1x10 11-36 cassette and 42T wolf-tooth chainring.  I also use a bar-end index shifter for this, set on friction (although it works perfect in index mode).  I found this offered very good range for me for all brevets I did in 2015 including PBP (in fact, in PBP I rarely used the 36 tooth in the back, not as steep as I thought it would be).  There also is the advantage of simplicity - no front derailleur or shifter to have a problem.  I also never had the chain drop off, this is the nature of the "narrow-wide" front chainring - it's made to hold the chain better (but not made for shifting of course).

There WERE times on some of the local DC Randonneuring rides that I wished I'd had a lower gear.  Also, sometimes the cog range jumps on the cassette could have been better, I did more hunting than I'd like at times.  I think the 11-36 works better here with a double (or triple) up front.

THUS, I thought I'd give the SRAM 1x system a go.  I'd heard the spacing is perfect since it's made for 1X and the range is all anyone would probably want.  

The SRAM 1x stuff is relatively new and I've actually never seen it on another riders road or rando bike (although, I've seen several 1x systems on other rando's bikes).  It's fairly common in the MTB and CX arenas.  The SRAM 1x rear cassette is unique in that it offers a 10x42 range, but to get that your rear  hub has to be a XD freehub.  That's where it can get expensive which is one reason it's not so prevalent (I think).  What's nice with the SRAM system is the cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain and chainring is all made for each other and unique to 1X.  You are not suppose to mix 1X and 2X (especially in the rear derailleur).  I think there is some variation with this but I'll not delve into that.  The uniqueness of a "10" for the small cog with a "42" large cog was interesting for me - and everything I'd heard about 1X from some MTB friends really said it shifted excellently (must be one heckofa rear derailleur to handle that range smoothly).

I did setup my bike with this exact system and my only problem is with the shifter (which is why I started this thread of course!).   SRAM doesn't make a bar end shifter for this and in fact, even their 11-speed bar end shifter doesn't have the range for it either, plus it can't be converted to a friction shifter (it's made for TRI and road bike rear derailleur).  BUT, I was able to use it with a different friction shifter minus 3 cogs and it shifted excellently.  Much better in fact than the Shimano system I made as mentioned above.

If you look at the compatibility chart from SRAM it shows a little of what can and can't be used with 1X.  All the shifters they list are trigger or hand-grip shifters, and all are indexed of course.

http://tinyurl.com/pffca22

I haven't adopted my new fangled shifter with it (not gotten the shiftmate yet) but plan to.  Perhaps I'll follow up here once done.  :)

Bob

[Edward O'Brien]

The SRAM barcons for 11speed should work if your x-horizon rear derailleur is a Force CX-1 or (new) Rival and many older SRAM MTB derailleurs.  The key here is that your derailleur is SRAM Exact Actuation i.e it has a 1:1 pull ratio.  Currently not all newer SRAM MTB rear derailleurs are exact actuation. The usable derailleurs typically have 'Exact Actuation' printed on the pulley cage. I use Force CX-1 on my Cross bike and X9 type 2 on my everything bike.  I have had much more reliable shifting with the X9.  I use the short cage X9 with a 12-36 cassette.

Having said that I might add that the SRAM barcons are intended for Time Trials where the shifter is facing forward and is operated by pushing with the thumb and pulling with the middle and index finger. Mounting them like on traditional drop bars facing rearwards folks might find they require enough force to cause wrist pain with extended use.

Some people prefer Shimano.  Retroshift now has a brake mounted shifter that works with Shimano Dynasys MTB derailleurs. http://gevenalle.com/product/gx/

-Edward

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 8:24:31 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:

[Bob]

Thanks for your post Edward.   Your post helps (to me) cement the confusion around X1 and compatibility!  The CX1 can refer to either 10 or 11 speed systems.  "Exact Actuation" is important when considering the shifter you link with it, yes.  X9 as you mention, is a 10 speed system according to the compatibility chart (referenced earlier).  My MTB derailleur is not an exact actuation system.  I think it's a better derailleur though, it's got that extra pulley thing going on which smoothes out the shifts.

Yes, I know about the TT bar end shifters (not being compatible) but it's more because the indexing and pull are not at all meant for 1X MTB, I mentioned that in my prior post but thanks (and BTW, I learned that the hard way - an "expert" told me they were and he was wrong.  I bought them and tried them.).

I emailed the Gevenalle folks (thanks for the link) and was told they don't make a shifter for what I've got.

Bob