Chain waxing for randonneurs

[cyclotou...@yahoo.com]

I’m pondering trying out immersion chain waxing for next season. Is this a misguided idea for brevet riding. I imagine I would need to carry a bottle of drip wax for longer distance rides.

David

[Greg Merritt]

I use traditional chain lubricants, and have re-applied mid-ride on 600km and longer brevets.

With multi-day brevets, especially with a bit of wetness / crud, that chain might really start to appreciate some attention, regardless of the lubricant choice, I think!

-Greg

[Andrew Adere]

The reason I haven't waxed is if I recall correctly waxing is purported to last only 200mi or so before needing reapplication and drip wax needs a long time to dry - Silca Super Secret says at least 12 hours. On a grand brevet I'm lucky to get 8ish hours off the bike each night.

That said having new waxed chains in drop bags is certainly an idea. Provided one lasts through a full 400km day or so. 

Would love to be shown to be wrong here.

Andrew

On Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 8:13 PM 'cyclotou...@yahoo.com' via randon <ran...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I’m pondering trying out immersion chain waxing for next season. Is this a misguided idea for brevet riding. I imagine I would need to carry a bottle of drip wax for longer distance rides.

David

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[ed bernasky]

I use either Silca immersion or Molten Speed Wax on my chains for brevets with an application of drip wax once on longer events.  On a long event like TCR or TABR, I would use a more traditional lube like Rock N Roll Gold since the carrier acts as a solvent and in effect, it cleans and lubes when following their directions.   I find that a waxed chain lasts much longer than oiled chain, maybe twice as long.

[Joel Voelz]

It's easy to carry a small bottle of lube along (if you use eye drops, you can use the small squeeze bottle when empty and  fill with lube -- about an oz) to re-lube your chain if the conditions ar nasty. At PBP 2007  -- with constant rain - I lubed my bike with Finish Line Wet Lube (or equivalent) and at some point the chain was squeaking like a tortured mouse. The only thing I could find at all resembling "lube" was a small can of WD40 at a control. Although not a lube (it's really a water displacement) periodic stops and sprays kept me going. 

However, since then I've used Chain-L. Nothing is perfect but this is an extremely good lube and marketed specifically for long-distance use, claiming a 1000 mile duration between applications. It's very viscous and has been extremely good for me. 

http://chain-l.com/ 

[Lin Osborne]

This has been a good discussion.  Hopefully, we'll get more comments.  I'd be interested in other observations/contributions.

I've been immersion waxing my road bike chains (note: plural) for about a year (also did this back in the 80s for a while) and have been favorably impressed with the performance.  I also get about 200 - 250 miles before needing to re-wax...so, about 300 - 400 km.  

jvoelz notes a rain storm will toast a wax job in short order.  Can confirm.  This said, I've come to prefer immersion wax for both efficiency & cleanliness.  I rotate three chains.  Once the wax on two chains is spent, I install my last clean chain, then get about the business of cleaning & re-waxing the two used chains to refresh the inventory.  I haven't ridden a "waxed chain system" for events exceeding 300 km, so I don't know how it would perform at the longer durations.  I plan to find out this season.

Oz Cycle has this vid on how to make a portable Parrafin drip from wax pot scrapings and Isopropyl alcohol.  I haven't made a drip bottle yet but have the supplies and will be tackling the task soon.  A portable drip could solve the longevity issue.  He has other vids related to immersion waxing that, if not endorsed by World Tour lab consultants, are at least interesting to watch.

https://youtu.be/-oyNX6-CCMw

While the commercial waxes probably are superior, my current pot consists of 500g of Gulf Wax (bought from my local grocer) with a teaspoon each of powdered Tungsten disulfide and PTFE (both .5 micron).  We'll never get full specs from the commercial brands but, from what I've read, sub-micron Tungsten disulfide appears to be the principal friction modifier in commercial waxes as well as mineral oil wet lubes (e.g., Silca Synergetic...which I run on a gravel bike...also good stuff, and long-lasting). 

I read elsewhere that untreated paraffin achieves about 90% efficiency of the commercial blends, so there's something to be said for just using raw paraffin at $8.00 USD opposed to buying a commercial blend at more than $100 USD.  And if you want to blend in your own friction modifiers, powdered WS2, MoS2, and/or PTFE aren't very expensive...though this could be viewed as bro science (if charged, I plead guilty).

Hope this helps

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[ed bernasky]

I find Silca secret chain blend to last longer than MSW and both to be far, far superior in the rain than any lubricant that I have tried.  The test results in the following would seem to concur.

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/

[Eric Nichols]

Ah, chain lubes: one of those topics where you will find every imaginable opinion. I think it really depends on your riding conditions. 

I've tried the hot-melt commercial waxes from Silca and Molten, and found them to be good... if I rode less than 200k and never rode in the rain. I found that even when the wax is applied to a hyper-clean chain (essential for good wax adhesion), over time the wax will flake off in places, leaving bare metal.  Add a little moisture and road salt and *BAM* rust spots and squeaks will start appearing before the ride is over.  Topping off mid-ride requires a drip lube that is compatible with the wax. Silca's liquid top-off solution is water based, which requires 24 hours to dry, so it's not a viable solution for re-lubing a chain during a brevet.  

Properly refreshing the wax in the shop involves several steps to clean, flush, dry, then re-immerse the chain.  For me, the process was too frequent and too time-consuming for its purported benefits. 

I really wanted to like wax, but I think my rides are too frequently wet and dirty for wax to be an optimal solution.  Here in New England, many dirt roads tend to run through swamps and bogs, so riding dirt frequently involves encountering wetness.  Most of my rides here in New England involve some dirt and some wetness, so I've relegated the wax to the bike that sits on the indoor trainer.  If I rode in a dry arid place, I'd probably love hot-melt wax... at least until I got caught in the rain on a long ride ;) 

These days, my preferred lubes are Silca Synergetic on the rando bike and NFS on everything else. Each bike bag gets a tiny squeeze bottle for topping off during long rainy rides.  Both lubes last long enough that I don't usually need to re-lube on long dry rides. One less thing to think about!

As they say, your mileage may vary.

Tailwinds, 

Eric

     

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 12:56:37 PM UTC-5 lindley...@gmail.com wrote:

[Bill Gobie]

I waxed chains for a couple of seasons and gave it up. It was too labor intensive and longevity was poor. My chains did stay remarkably clean so I'll give it that plus.

My preference now is Boeshield T-9. It's a wax in a light petroleum carrier. Preferably you apply it to a degreased chain. But you can just put it on a chain with the factory grease. The carrier melts out the factory grease and you can wipe it off after riding. After a few repetitions the chain is pretty much degreased and stays clean. Boeshield is not as clean as pure waxes, but it's pretty close. It persists well in wet conditions. The petroleum base displaces water if you need to apply it to a wet chain. Ideally you let the solvent evaporate but it's not absolutely necessary.

Bill

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[Jacques Bilinski]

+1 on using Boeshield. And it's available in 1 gallon jugs at West Marine if you're feeling frugal. 

[Bill Gobie]

Frugality at West Marine is an oxymoron. :D

Bill

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[Jacques Bilinski]

Frugality at West Marine is an oxymoron. :D

You're probably right. Now that I googled it, it's a bit cheaper everywhere else. Anyways at my age I'm not sure if buying a gallon makes a lot of sense.     

 

[cyclotou...@yahoo.com]

Thank you all for your contributions to an interesting discussion. I’m guessing that I will find the full wax immersion process a bit too much. Thanks for the Boeshield suggestion. Perhaps I will give it a go.

David 

[Drew Carlson]

Like most of you, I've tried many, many chain lubes and techniques (but not wax immersion), and I've come to settle on Boeshield T-9 as well.  A well-known long distance cycle touring company uses it exclusively (though in spray form - I use drip bottle), which is where I learned of it.  I don't think it's the longest lasting (that might be Chain L), but it is almost as long lasting (at least 300 miles under optimum conditions).  What I like most about T-9 is how clean the chain remains once you've wiped of the excess after application.  

It seems to me there are many lubes for chains which do a good job under most conditions, and that the key to long chain life (my main objective) is to lube the chain regularly, and wipe it clean after lubing.   

[Andrew Adere]

I might've missed this in the conversation but does anyone have experience comparing Boeshield T-9 versus Silca Synergetic?

I've used Chain-L and Synergetic but never T-9.

Thanks,

Andrew

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[Banksie]

I use T9 quite often as well. 

I have used Chain-L for years and think it’s very good.

Two other lubes that are excellent are NixFrixShuns and Wendt. 

NFS is small batch made by an ex-racer on the East Coast and is as good as Chain - L imho. 

Wendt has a bit of a process “wax on, wax off” set of steps which takes too long for me. 

For serious seasonal bike cleaning, I tend to lube the chain, and let it sit for a minute. While it’s resting, I swab my leather saddle with a bit of leather proofer/conditioner. 

Then clean excess off both and go.

Deb Banks

Remember to show your leather saddle you care!

Sent from the Rivetress’ Phone

On Jan 16, 2023, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Adere <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[richar...@sbcglobal.net]

I have used several types of chain lube of the past decades and like a few others I have settled on Boeshield T-9. I few years ago I invested in a gallon. May end up being a lifetime supply.

A couple of points

• Clean the derailleur pulleys before applying
• Sometimes I take shop paper towel and clean chain after first coating
• Then apply next coat of lube .
• Allow to set overnight
• Or even better – use a heat gun (Harbor Freight usually has one for $10 with coupons)  to heat set the lube

 

I usually reapply after long brevets – probably best to recoat with a lube if first part of 600km heavy rain

 

I normally get good chain mileage

 

Richard McCaw

408-838-9863

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[blue...@gmail.com]

Nothing like a hot chain lubrication discussion to make the cold, dark winter days past while we dream of PBP!

I'm in the pacific northwest and I've been running Slica hot wax on two bikes since ~June last year - my daily commuting bike and my weekend rando bike.  I'm less picky with my commuting bike, deliberately to see how wax holds up in all sorts of conditions.  I put a 'fresh' chain on before brevets.  So far I have the following observations:

1) the ~300-400km distance as the point when the chain becomes noisy & annoying in heavy wet conditions seems about right.  I did a 600 km, 4 day tour in dry conditions (with ~50 km of gravel) with a freshly waxed chain and is was fine.

2) Leaving a wet chain on my commuter (overnight) without wiping it down will develop rust spots on chain and a few cogs (no duh I guess)

3) Wiping the chain then applying Silca drip wax is a good solution for enabling longer run time before hot treatment.  I have not done this during a long brevet yet, but intend to this spring.  (I know there is a recommended 12 hour drying time, but i'll live dangerously) 

4) Easy-peasy - take chain off, wipe down, put it in a small crock pot of molten wax, make a cappuccino, come back and take chain out, hang to cool/dry, done in 15 minutes, half of which is making the drink.  I like using a two chain rotation, so I put a 'fresh' chain on and can do the hot wax/drink process when convenient.  

5) Clean bike, clean hands, clean cogs, clean chainrings.  Small pieces of wax does flake off - but just wipe these way.  Wax just doesn't attract and hold dirt. 

6) Low(ish) friction is a nice benefit, maybe longer chain life might also be a plus, but I'm trying wax more for cleanliness and easy of process.

On 1000km plus events, I intend to have a eyedrop bottle of drip wax for application on the road and I'll put a 'fresh' chain in a drop bag for an easy swap.

YMMV - Kevin Smith

I'm influenced by the independent test of Zero Friction Cycling where new wax formulations repeatedly out perform oil/synthetics.   

 

[Lin Osborne]

+1 for Zero Friction Cycling

Chain lubricant comparison spreadsheet: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Website-chart-data-November-22.xlsx

Web: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/
YT:    https://www.youtube.com/@zerofrictioncycling992/about

ZFC evaluates chain lubes from efficiency, longevity, & drivetrain wear, and estimated cost-of-operation perspectives..  It doesn't look like he's tested Boeshield T-9 or Chain-L yet.  As mentioned, his results indicate wax outperforms all other formulas on the efficiency, wear/TCO scales, but not for durability.

To date, the highest ranking wet lube is Silca Synergetic.  I hadn't heard of Chain-L before this thread, but a quick read suggests a similar formulation.: one or more dry friction modifier(s) (WS2, MoS2, etc) suspended in high-quality mineral oil.  I run Synergetic on a gravel bike & have been favorably impressed.  It's relatively easy, long lasting, and clean when used as instructed.   

I used Boeshield T-9 on chains (and to rust-proof steel frames) years back and it worked fine for me.  I recall it as hard-wearing though I question if it ranks as high on the friction-reduction scale...though that likely isn't the most important characteristic for multi-day events. 

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[ed bernasky]

T-9 results are on the spreadsheet, it lost 47% of total chain life in the "Wet" block test whereas the three immersion waxed chains only lost 8-9%.  Some of the oil lubes lost over 100% of allowed chain wear meaning the chain is shot.   I get 5-10,000 mile from a chain and at least 25-30K+ on a cassette depending on level of abuse.   T-9 has the same wet block wear rating as Smoove that I use to touch up a chain on a 600K brevet but it looks like the solvent in T-9 might make it a better choice.   I'm going to give it a shot.   Once cleaned properly at the first immersion, I just throw the chain into the crockpot unless the chain was on a wet and muddy type ride, in which case cleaning would be necessary irrespective of the type of lube.  

Wipperman Connex 10 Sx and 11Sx chains resist rust due to inner stainless steel plates and nickel on the outside surface.  I've abused them in the rain and they did not rust as advertised.   I have not tried their 12 speed chain.   But a wet ride always requires a wipedown and lube at the minimum for any lube although some chains don't rust as much as others. 

None of it really matters.  Equipment is such trivial factor in whether one finishes or not.  But the estimated running costs are not so meaningless as zerofriction assessments show.  Who cares about a couple less watts from a chain or 10 watts from faster tires tubes, the extra effort is not noticeable.  Is it Spring yet?

[lj mangin]

I have used Fenwicks Professional and it works well.  It may take some time for it to arrive once ordered, but a bottle lasts for a long time.

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/fenwicks-professional-bike-chain-lube-57339.html

John M

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[Osvaldo]

+1 for Silca Synergetic, chains last 10000+ km with minimal maintenance (wipe the chain now and then and re-lube about every 1000 km as per the instructions). Added bonus chains remain quite clean.

I used Dumonde Tech Original Chain Lube before, chains lasted about 6000 km and were dirt magnets.

Only caveat is that it does not rain much where I ride so I don't know if these numbers hold under wet conditions.

I use Ultegra 11sp chains and measure wear with Parktool CC-4 chain checker.

[jinu...@gmail.com]

A few things:

I'd no longer support or even view any of Oz Cycles videos.   Youtuber Oz Cycle ( Google Steven John Leffanue) sentenced to Jail for two years for beating neighbours dog to death...such a shame. I liked his videos and he seemed like a nice man...guess it's hard to know people's true colours through the side they show you on social media and blogging etc. :( : cycling (reddit.com)

*  Steven John Leffanue jailed for beating neighbour's dog to death near Victor Harbor - ABC News

Second, my experience with waxing chains last season was very good.  I rotate between 3 chains and felt mostly fine even at the end of one of my 600ks.  I'm considering getting another chain to put Synergetic on for PBP and do a refresh after the return.  Seems like it runs about as clean as a waxed chain and as others have said, it stays clean with minimal maintenance.

[cyclotou...@yahoo.com]

Another option I've discovered which might be worth pursuing is the combination of UFO Clean and UFO drip wax from ZeroFrictionCycling. Sounds like their method of chain cleaning might be reasonably simple. The price for Clean and Lube combo is a bit shocking, but, or course, so is the price of new chains and cassettes. Here is a link to their cleaning instructions: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Chain-prep-Guide-Concise-v2.pdf

David