Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest?

[Bob the Wheelbuilder]

I didn't order the vest when I registered for PBP, because I ordered
the RUSA one instead along with some other supplies (order placed June
13th). The order just came and I've been refunded the vest price
because the vests are "sold out." Are there other good US sources for
either the official vest or another good substitute?

Thanks

[Kole Kantner]

Bob,

I have an extra SIR pbp certified vest size L, green, new in the bag. $30. Others probably have extras as well. 

Kole

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[Susan Otcenas]

I have a size MEDIUM for sale. It's the same as the official RUSA/PBP
vest, except is has the Seattle International Randonneurs logos on it.
$20 and it's yours.

Susan

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Thanks

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[Gmail]

What size are you looking for?

Steve Rice

[Bob the Wheelbuilder]

According to my measurements, a large.

[dave617]

I have a RUSA L size vest-- just arrived this week. I tried it on and turns out I need XL. I think there's sizing info at www.l2s-shop.com, label says height range for size L is 172-184, and chest is 92-108 (presumably mm). Anyone have XL?

[Thomas Durkin]

I have a SIR yellow vet that is too big for me. Used in Colorado last week. Swap?  -Tom

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:40 PM, dave617 <jdavid...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a RUSA L size vest-- just arrived this week. I tried it on and turns out I need XL. I think there's sizing info at www.l2s-shop.com, label says height range for size L is 172-184, and chest is 92-108 (presumably mm). Anyone have XL?

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[Bob the Wheelbuilder]

Thanks for everyone's quick responses. I'm buying Kole's as it is the
right size. Hopefully this thread will allow others to find a vest to
swap or buy as needed.

Bob

[Bill Gobie]

At least one SIR vest owner reported dye transfer to his clothes when
he wore his vest, new, in the rain. So washing before 1st use is
recommended.

I was riding at the same time and did not notice dye transfer, but my
vest is about the same color as my rain jacket, so maybe dye transfer
was not noticeable.

Today I put my vest in with some other garments I was treating with
Nikwax soft shell waterproofing. I don't know if another Nikwax
product would be more appropriate for this material. Testing in the
sink, water beads up and runs off the vest pretty well now. The
material eventually gets damp, but at least it isn't acting like a
sponge anymore. Beads of water go through the open weave, so it no way
becomes a waterproof layer.

Bill Gobie

[trosenbauer]

PA Randonneurs has about 10 L2S vests available in several sizes for
ordering or exchanges. These are all yellow and branded with the PA
Randonneurs logo. Additional details at:
http://pbpfaq.blogspot.com/

-Tom Rosenbauer
Eastern PA RBA

[Roadkill]

My suggestion, having done PBP twice, is get a compliant vest to show at inspection, then wear whatever you want on the road. Several riders could share the same "show" vest. No one is going to pull you off the course, or even notice what kind of tag your vest might have, once the ride begins.

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David Bundrick

 Fixed gear riders are shiftless bums.

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 08:46:12AM -0400, Roadkill wrote:
> My suggestion, having done PBP twice, is get a compliant vest to show at
> inspection, then wear whatever you want on the road. Several riders could
> share the same "show" vest. No one is going to pull you off the course, or
> even notice what kind of tag your vest might have, once the ride begins.

It's worth remembering that the organisers are only enforcing French
road rules (as I understand it)... don't be hard on them for requiring
the compliant vest.

Hamish

[sekhem313]

Greetings friends!

Some time ago the RUSA newsletter published an article about clothing guidlines at PBP.  In the spirit of the non-professional nature of the event, jerseys and other clothing can display logos and labels from your local cycling club, the 'official' PBP event jersey or otherwise be plain.  Normal clothing manufacturing label are are ok.  Otherwise, no other symbols or labeling suggesting sponsorship can be visible.

 

Here's my dilema: my favorite hot weather kit is bright yellow and is made of magic material that is oddly comfortable in extreme heat & humidity.  It is a Tour of California jersey with the event sponsor logo hotly splashed front and back.

 

So will this jersey  violate all rules of Haute Coutour?

best wishes all

 

[li...@jkassen.org]

> Here's my dilema: my favorite hot weather kit is bright yellow and is made
> of magic material that is oddly comfortable in extreme heat & humidity. It
> is a Tour of California jersey with the event sponsor logo hotly splashed
> front and back.

You can wear whatever you want so long as it isn't a pro team kit. So your tour of CA jersey is OK, but your HTC
Highroad team kit isn't. They just want it to be clear that PBP is an event for amateurs.

In 2007 a very young rider was wearing the team kit of a pro team which folder a mear week prior due to the number
of riders using EPO. Not exactly the clothing choice I'd make....

As a sidenote, Emily and I met a rider who was encouraging us to wear street cloths rather then cycling shorts as, "The
French think that's hardcore". We saw that same rider at the end wearing bibs under his shorts and his shorts were
stained with chammy cream. Not a pretty sight.

Jake

[LittleWheelsandBig]

At PBP99 (and at PBP03 from vague memory), the bike check folk were
putting a small mark on submitted reflective vest, so the same vest
couldn't be shared around. No bike check at PBP07 of course.

> *David Bundrick*

[Bruce...@gdc4s.com]

> Are there other good US sources for either the official vest

> or another good substitute?

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much...if it's a French legal requirement and not just a PBP one, you should be able to pick up one at Carrefour, Go Sport or Decathlon once you're there.  There should also be plenty of vendors at bike inspection in Guyancourt, and at least one should be selling them as well (although if you go there late, there may only be XS and XXL left). 

 

You actually may have the best luck finding something that fits in France, since you'll have a better chance of trying it on and selecting from multiple sources.  You're also more likely to find something more economical there, since a greater share of the population will be required to use them and you won't be paying shipping and handling charges.

 

- Bruce

[Lesli]

I have the XS version of the PBP/SIR vest if anyone needs it. I have
a theory that all these vests are essentially the same size. I'm
swimming in the XS.

LL

[Roger Peskett]

Amazon is still showing availability ("2 left in stock") for the Mavic
Vision Vest 2010 in Large, through the seller Real Cyclist. I recently
ordered and received a vest by this method. Mavic sizes differ for
"International" and US/UK. I ordered Large, and was sent International
Size L/G (which is "M" in US/UK sizing, according to the label). A
fabric label on the garment states "EN1150".

[Bob the Wheelbuilder]

They are actually out of stock even though they still list 2
available. I wrote them to see if the large was US or European and
was just informed of this.

[Jason Hansen]

http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/PLAQUETTE-GB.pdf

Riders must have an EN1150 (non-professional 

standard) or EN471 (professional standard) high 

visibility reflective vest. Alternatives like a reflective 

sash or belt are not acceptable as substitutes

With the Mavic vest apparently discontinued the only option is the vest sold through RUSA?

I don't see the L2S vests from 2011 for sale any longer.  Does anyone know if RUSA is going to import more of these? 

[Susan Otcenas]

Jason,

 

GORE Bike wear makes an EN1150 certified vest for both men and women.  Here at TeamEstrogen.com, we sell the women's version only.  http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodGB_VWVISL.html   You may find the men's version online elsewhere.    For reference, here is the European EN1150 certification of this vest:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/template-resources/images/te2/GB_VWVISL_CE.png

 

Hope this helps.

 

Susan

 

***********************************************

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Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Hansen
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 9:58 AM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Randon] Re: Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest? *2015*

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[Dan Driscoll]

Yea, and they do not require helmets, or ankle bands, which some may argue are more important. DD

[Rick Martyn]

If you live near an Ikea store (or know someone who does), you might be able to buy their $5 Patrull vest which is EN471 rated.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50200916/

Rick M.

[Chicken Sandwich]

I just bought one of the L2S vests and it arrived last week.  They have them.  You have to enter your RUSA number to see them.

http://www.rusa.org/cgi-bin/store_GF.pl

--

[Susan Otcenas]

Rick, thanks for mentioning that.  I'd forgotten about it.  http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50200916/

 

It's definitely an option, and a very inexpensive one at that.  I purchased one in the lead up to PBP in 2011 to see if it would work for me.  My conclusion:  If what you're after is just meeting the reflective requirements, this will work well.  But if you are after a usable cycling garment (ie. something that actually works like a vest, with wind/weather protection, pockets, a decent fit, etc., then it's not the best option.   Also, I found that the cheap scratchy fabric rubbed at the back of my neck when on th bike.  If someone opts for something like this, you might consider either sewing a soft "collar" of sorts over the edge to prevent chafing, OR cut down the back of the neck somewhat to eliminate contact at the neck entirely.

 

YMMV,

 

Susan

 

***********************************************

Susan Otcenas

Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Martyn
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 10:51 AM
To: Dan Driscoll
Cc: Jason Hansen; Randon
Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest? *2015*

[Ty Smith]

I have that one too and ended up using it for my commuting as well. I like it. Order big though!

(The French must be tiny...)

Ty

[Bill Gobie]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Ty Smith <tyj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have that one too and ended up using it for my commuting as well. I like it. Order big though!

Can you tell us which size you ordered and your chest measurement?

Bill 

[NuitsBlanches]

I imagine that the PBP requirement stems from French law, that requires cyclists (including stokers on a tandem) riding out of city limits at night or when visibility is poor, to wear a certified reflective vest. 

If you want to start practicing your French skills early :-)

"Le port d’un gilet rétroréfléchissant certifié est obligatoire pour tout cycliste (et son passager) circulant hors agglomération, la nuit, ou lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante."

http://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/conseils-pour-une-route-plus-sure/conseils-pratiques/circuler-a-velo/circuler-a-velo-roulez-en-toute-securite

No mention of h****t in the law.

[Ty Smith]

The advice I got from Jennifer Wise at the RUSA store was to go size bigger than I normally do.  I was "attempting" humor with my last comment. To my understanding, French sizes are smaller. This could be European in general, but that I don't know.

In any case, last time I checked my chest size, I was somewhere in the 42- 44" range, so I got a XXL.

Normally,  I get XL in cycling jerseys' in general, L-XL in US tshirts depending on the cut and how much pie I have eaten in the previous few days...  I've NEVER gotten XXL in anything else, that's for sure!

Good luck!

Ty

--

[Chicken Sandwich]

I wear a 48" suit jacket and I ordered the XXXL, which is one size bigger than usually I get for jerseys and so forth.  That was a good choice for me.

--

[Bill Gobie]

Ty & Chicken -- thanks.

It's not that the French are small, it's that Americans are getting larger and clothing manufacturers are flattering us by making garments bigger without changing the tags. Look up vanity sizing. I used to buy L and XL shirts, now it's M and L, and I haven't lost weight.

Bill

[Lynne Fitz]

or, as a friend said about the sizing at the apparel company where he works... "I take the extra-medium"

On topic - I have the women's Gore Visibility Vest. My only wish is that the drop tail was a bit longer.

[WMdeR]

The L2S size medium I ordered from RUSA is a "club fit", i.e. a bit roomy/flappy in summer garb and my racing cape/rain jacket. I wouldn't have described it as small for its size. 

 

Me: 175cm (5'9"), 70Kg (150-155lb), 39" chest. 

 

Now, the Mavic vest was slim/heroin junkie/supermodel/pro cyclist skinny cut. I had to size up to the French/Japanese large (German/US medium, designed for folks 6" taller than I am) to fit my wallet into my jersey while wearing it. The DWR on the reflective bits has worn on that vest (it got used for the last two years as my regular wind vest), and it is no longer reflective in the rain once the stripes wet out.  I just need to lose ten pounds, then I can use that medium....

 

Best,

 

Will

William M. deRosset

[Simon Watt]

I believe, that for many years, French motorists have been required by law to carry reflective vests... that law migrated to cyclists before PBP 2011.

Cheers, Simon

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[Susan Otcenas]

>>The DWR on the reflective bits has worn on that vest (it got used for the last two years as my regular wind vest), and it is no longer reflective in the rain once the stripes wet out.  I just need to lose ten pounds, then I can use that medium....

 

I bought the Mavic vest in Summer 2011 (the women's Gore vest had not yet come out), had it altered to fit my hips (it was only made in men's, and I'm curvy) and have used it heavily since.   By this winter, the reflective stripes had definitely lost a lot of their luster, and were beginning to peel off the vest quite significantly.

 

So, I peeled it all off and purchased IRON ON reflective tape in bulk quantities like this:  http://www.identi-tape.com/iron-on.html  

 

The end result: 

https://www.facebook.com/susan.otcenas/posts/10152227180856133 

I think it's more visible than the original!

 

I did the same thing to my Gore waterproof jacket: http://tinyurl.com/qyykvfu

 

Susan

 

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Susan Otcenas

Team Estrogen, Inc.

www.TeamEstrogen.com

877-310-4592

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From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of WMdeR
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:41 PM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest? *2015*

--

[Jim House - Custom Computer Solutions]

Ty

 

The French are not tiny – we are fat.

But we keep changing the sizing in here in the USA a current XL was a M in 1955.

 

Jim House

Maumee, OH

 

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ty Smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 2:37 PM
To: Chicken Sandwich
Cc: Jason Hansen; randon
Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest? *2015*

 

I have that one too and ended up using it for my commuting as well. I like it. Order big though!

[roadijeff]

For PBP 2011 I bought an LS2 vest from some online source.  RUSA didn't have any at the time.  It was bright orange and a different color than what nearly every other rider was wearing.  I looked like a PBP official. During the PBP inspection the inspector told me that my vest color didn't comply with the rules.  I showed him the EN-1150 tag on it but he said it didn't matter.  He said it was in the rules regarding the color.

Fortunately, I had packed my old green Garmin vest.  I had to ride back to my hotel room and get that one before he would pass me.  I wore the more comfortable (and stylish) orange vest during the ride itself.

After I got back home I studied the official rules and there was nothing in it about the vests having to be a certain color.  I emailed the ACP officials and told them my story. They apologized and said that some of the inspectors are new and had not memorized all the rules. 

Anyway, if anyone gives you any problem with your vest color in 2015 ask them to show you where it says that in the rules.  I will be wearing my orange LS2 vest.

Jeff

[NickBull]

Might be a good idea to have a copy of the rules with you when going through inspection.  I also got a spurious interpretation of the rules thrown at me that took a few minutes to deal with.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

http://www.occunomix.com/products/ok-1/traffic-safety-wear/ok-1-dual-stripe-surveyor-vest-mesh-lime.html

This is the vest I use at night.  OK-1 SVL2M model.  Excellent.  Mesh.  Bright white plastic reflective stripes.  Bright yellow color.  Get the S/M size as its very large. 

[Chicken Sandwich]

I thought PBP would not accept a vest if it's not EN-1150 certified.  That vest looks like it might be OSHA certified, but I doubt it has any French or European certifications.  I suppose for domestic brevets, the RBA has discretion as to whether any reflective gear worn by a rider is acceptable or not.

On a side note, I also noted when I was looking at the rules for 3CR in California that they are also requiring an EN-1150 certified vest for their 1000/1200.  I am going out there for the 1200, so I bought the RUSA vest.

On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:26 AM, russell...@yahoo.com <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:

http://www.occunomix.com/products/ok-1/traffic-safety-wear/ok-1-dual-stripe-surveyor-vest-mesh-lime.html

This is the vest I use at night.  OK-1 SVL2M model.  Excellent.  Mesh.  Bright white plastic reflective stripes.  Bright yellow color.  Get the S/M size as its very large. 

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[Dan Driscoll]

With all of the talk about the EN-1150 loosing it’s reflectiveness, within a year or two of regular use, and washings. I would not be surprised if the “Vest Police” will require a current sales receipt to prove the newness (current reflectiveness) of an older garment :-) 

I think I’ll wait to see if anything changes before I start purchasing any reflective goodies for PBP. I still own several, I bought PBP 2011 that are way to warm for the bulk of our riding. DD

[Richard Stum | eoGEAR]

I recently sent an e-mail to the product designer at Nathan Sports regarding possibly making a Euro-legal vest for sale in the U.S. (I carry there very breathable & reflective vests on my site). Her only comment was "As a company standard, we say 1,200 ft visibility." End of discussion. My guess is that for a U.S. company to get Euro certification would be rather expensive with minor pay back, unless they have a big presence in Europe.

Cheers,
Richard Stum
Living in the Mountains of Central Utah
Rap Sheet Below...
Salt Lake Randonneurs RBA
Rando Richard (blog)
My Strava Uploads
Facebook
eoGEAR (rando stuff)

[randonnerd]

...and surprisingly, those vests approved for US/Canada provide WAY MORE reflective visibility than those that meet the EN -1150 requirements.   The EU requirement appears to place more emphasis on (daytime) visibility vs, the ANSI requirements of "reflectiveness" on low light/dark environments...but those vests offered prior to the last PBP sure were purdy.

Willy

[randonnerd]

Unfortunately the EN-1150 standards are not up to the US ANSI/ISA requirements, and one of the reasons I will NOT ride the 3CR event, or any other that will put my safety in jeopardy, just so that the organizer can fall back on some "standard" supported by a bunch of "no nothing's" at our parent ACP organization.

It is high time RUSA takes a stance and specifies that for all RUSA events, in low light conditions, riders will be required to wear high visibility apparel that meets ANSI/ISA 107-2010, Class 1, as a minimum.  Personally, I feel more comfortable wearing me reflective gear that meets ANSI/ISA 107-2010 class 2, but then, this is the garment I wear during my day job.

Willie

[Eric Keller]

EN-1150 is a legal requirement in France, but I'm pretty sure it's a
minimum. There is a European standard that probably meets ANSI level 3
and almost surely is EN-1150 compliant. The silliness about the
official PBP vest at the inspection notwithstanding, the O2 EN-1150
vest sold at PBP and by RUSA is very visible at night. I think a
minimum EN-1150 vest is not that good. The 2011 official vest is a
little warm, but I wear it mid-summer here in Central Pennsylvania and
have never regretted it.

There is a certain unevenness about the standard of reflective wear
you see on RUSA brevets. I would support a minimum standard, but I
think that should admit the EN-1150 vests

[WMdeR]

>I would support a minimum standard

Dear Eric,

Careful what you ask for. 

The ACP is just passing along the French traffic authorities' enforcement of CE requirements for traffic safety, individual inspectors at PBP aside. There isn't any reason for anyone outside the EU to abide by those requirements.

EN1150 sets a pretty low bar. Pretty much all the ANSI 107/2010 Class 2-compliant garments outperform EN1150 both in daylight conspicuity and reflectivity. I should note that the L2S wind vest sold by RUSA blows the minimum EN1150 standard away, if you can live with a wind-front vest (and the logos).

Right now, in the USA, the RBA retains wide latitude on what passes inspection, and items that have no formal certification, but that substantially exceed EN1150, are acceptable under the current standard. Wear what makes you feel visible in low light.

If folks are already looking for an EN1150 vest for PBP, then the easy/least cost way to go is to use whatever is acceptable locally for the next year and a half, wait 'till you're in France, and pick up a compliant vest in the EU. They're available at PBP checkin, any Décathlon (sporting goods chain), were for sale at the friendly local bike shop (whose name I've forgotten, but it is right between Versailles and the start on the D10), or, for that matter, at any Hypermarché. It is a legal requirement for all cyclists outside of town to have one, and they'll have them.

Many USA cyclists got pretty excited about sourcing a vest in 2011 (I was among them). It really wasn't an issue in the breach. Hell, I saw non-compliant vests out on the course (the weak Rapha effort, the "brevet" vest, was fairly common--it is a great windvest, but lacks conspicuity compared to compliant garments) that didn't attract the wrath of the ride officials.

Best Regards,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[Chicken Sandwich]

While I can appreciate your reluctance enter an event where you'll be forced to use a reflective garment which does not meet the reflective standards that you feel are necessary for your safety, I personally won't use any vest that was originally intended for construction workers.  I've tried it and they are not comfortable at all, and hot to boot.

The RUSA EN-1150 vest is comfortable and I can attest that it can be seen from a long distance off at night, from observing other riders with the same vest.  The temperature of the garment can be adjusted by using the full length zipper  It's a lot more reflective than the sashes that used to be sufficient.  In fact since I started wearing it, it seems like cars give me more room.  .  Overall I am happy with my purchase, and I think it has greatly increased my visibility at night.  

I think a reasonable solution would be to add both standards to the list of reflective gear that could be allowed by RUSA RBAs, and when we're in France, we'll just have to live by their rules.

[Dan Driscoll]

If the goal is to be safer, and we think that more reflective is better, and we speck out a particular vest, it will be left to the RBA’s to have to enforce. In my opinion this is not enforceable, and old EN-1150 vest may be less reflective than and new sash. I guess we will need to buy a Reflect-O-Meter to test every one before we allow them to ride? DD

[Susan Otcenas]

>>It is high time RUSA takes a stance and specifies that for all RUSA events, in low light conditions, riders will be required to wear high visibility apparel that meets ANSI/ISA 107-2010, Class 1, as a minimum.

 

While I agree that a high level of reflectivity should be encouraged, I think that requiring a garment or vest meet some specific level of certification, as evidenced by a certification tag,  is not the way to go. 

 

For one thing, the silver reflective tapes lose their effectiveness over time as the little beads on the material wash and/or wear off.  A garment might carry the correct "tag" but no longer be very reflective.  Are we to ask ride organizers to police the ride starts by asking people to stand in front of bright lights to judge the current state of their garments?  If not, then a tag certification is really meaningless.

 

Secondly, many people, myself included, enhance their outerwear with additional iron-on or sew-on reflective tape.  My current cycling jacket beats the pants off most things "certified" on the market, thanks to many feet of iron-on reflective.   But it carries no "certification".   For an example, see: https://www.facebook.com/susan.otcenas/posts/10152240740641133

Reflective tape is less than a buck a foot, and is a good low budget way to make any garment highly visible.   Would you reject such a garment as unsuitable for lack of a special tag?

 

I think we should encourage a high level of reflectivity, absolutely.  But I think we need to be careful about advocating for ride organizers to become the garment police looking for special tags.   Education and encouragement ("Hey Joe, I love riding with you, but it makes me really uncomfortable that your vest is worn out and not very visible"  --  "Hey Jane, great vest!  Can see you from a mile away!") will go much farther in getting riders to become more aware of the importance of visibility.

 

Susan

 

 

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==============================

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From: ran...@googlegroups.com <ran...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of randonnerd <rando...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 6:35 PM
To: Chicken Sandwich
Cc: russell...@yahoo.com; randon

Subject: Re: [Randon] Re: Best (US) Source for PBP Compliant Vest?

[Dan Driscoll]

Susan, so very well said. 

If the goal is to mandate more safety after dark, ( I think there are more danger in the daylight) I don’t know if I’ve heard any great ideas yet, except your pier pressure idea.  

 

Why have a great reflective vest and crummy lights on the bike, when the lights are much more important? I saw people show up to PBP with a EN 1150 and a pin light. 

How do you mandate better lights? or reflective gear? 

Any new rule would need to be easily definable, enforceable and uncomplicated. I’ve not been able to visualize a rule that would really work yet. 

At some point a very old and worn out EN1150 or ANSI 107/2010 may be much less reflective/effective than a new Sash. 

Does any one have a "Reflect-O-Meter", so we can take reading on each rider at the start and decide who will be allowed to ride and who will not :-) 

Thanks for saying what I’ve been thinking, DD

[Pat Leahy]

One thing to keep in mind is that the Audax Club Parisien didn’t come up the reflective vest rule themselves. They are making sure riders are in compliance with French law which requires these vests when riding outside of towns at night or when visibility is poor.

Pat

Pat Leahy

p...@patleahy.com

206 334 3219

[Lynne Fitz]

also please consider that while lights are bright when you are riding, when you are not riding (fixing a flat, ditch nap, and so on), you aren't on your bike, your lights may not be on (or dimmed), and there you are in the dark...

[NickBull]

Susan's comment about education and encouragement and talking to each other is great. 

You can't see yourself from the back, so you might think that you've done a good job, but in fact your battery is low, or the wire from your dynamo hub to your taillight has come loose, or the reflective stripes on your vest are hidden under a hydration pack, or whatever.  The only way you'll know is if a buddy tells you.

The best comment from one randonneur to another that I've heard so far: "From a distance, you look like a black, plastic garbage bag blowing down the road."

Nick