tweaking randonneur bike fit

[Jenny Oh Hatfield]

Hey Folks,

I began randonneuring last year and completed a full series and an R-12. I used my aluminum CX bike and the only thing I changed out was my saddle (Campy build, carbon components). Everything was fine except for my right knee; I thought I might have some lingering issues from an old CX injury, but after much trial and error -- the problem was with the saddle itself (and not fore/aft position or height.) 

Late last summer, I bought an Ocean Air Bicycles' frame and built it up with aluminum components. It's a much heavier build -- about 10 lbs. heavier when it's not loaded down with food, water, etc. I've since gone back to using a men's Fizik Aliante Versus saddle which was been fine for 200k or less. But now that I've done a 300k and 400k, I'm starting to notice discomfort from riding this saddle (which I had far, far less of with my Gilles Berthoud) and soreness in my hands. 

I asked a good friend who's a seasoned randonneur/endurance rider if he knew of anyone with expertise in rando-specific fit in the Bay Area (which is where I live. Also, I ride with SF Randonneurs and know many are on this list, so figured I'd just post here to cast a wider net of knowledge.) He didn't, but suggested that I try different chamois (the shorts I used last year worked fine, however, but may not be as effective with my current road saddle. I use a ton of chamois cream, too.) 

Many of you have probably gone through numerous iterations with components / saddles trying to dial in the best fit. I've read Peter White's and Rivendell's recommendations, and gone through the archives here. I was thinking about going back to my bike fitter to see if we could somehow make a leather saddle work (who deals primarily with road / MTB fit, however, and doesn't have any knowledge of leather saddles). But perhaps by measuring my sit bones and checking the width/length of various leather saddles online - we can see if the one I have might work or find a better alternative. 

Of course, if I had to choose between knee pain and saddle discomfort -- I'd choose the latter. My questions are: do folks find the traditional randonneur shaped bar more comfortable on their hands? I currently have the Nitto Chinook which seems to impose more pressure on my palms. The tape is pretty well-padded and has another layer of old, thinner leather bar tape as well; I no longer ride with gloves but may go back to them for even more extra padding. I've also switched to using Hetres to provide extra cush. And if anyone has any insights on bike fit -- whether you went at it alone through experimentation, or found that your fitter could make adjustments for endurance-length rides -- that would be much appreciated! 

I'm hoping to do my first 1200k this year and would love to be as comfortable as one can be going in! I'm attaching a recent photo of my bike. 

Cheers,

Jenny Hatfield

Oakland, CA

[Eric Keller]

I usually have saddle problems early in the SR season and then it gets better.  I have never had particularly bad saddle problems on a 1200k.  If the saddle is otherwise comfortable, you might want to take a wait-and-see approach.

I found that messing with fore-aft saddle position really helped with unweighting my hands to the extent that I don't have issues. Prior to that, I always had temporary neuropaty issues in my hands.  It would usually go away after a week or month, but it was a concern.  I have also found that too much padding can put pressure on your nerves and cause similar issues.

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[Old5ten]

seems like pressure on the palms would be a fore/aft or tilt saddle issue (i.e. saddle too far forward or saddle tilted downward).

elmar

[James Bondra]

Another thing to consider besides fore/aft and tilt is how strong your core is. I find the more core work I do, I have less issues with pressure on my hands.

 

James Bondra
Business, Economics and Sport Management & Media Librarian
Ithaca College
Ithaca, NY  14850
607-274-1962 (w)
607-220-4382 (cell)

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From: ran...@googlegroups.com <ran...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Old5ten <old5...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:55 AM
To: Jenny Oh Hatfield
Cc: randon
Subject: Re: [Randon] tweaking randonneur bike fit

 

[DrCodfish]

Plus one on strengthening your core, helps with many issues aside from hand numbness. Can't think why you wouldn't use gloves, but adding them could help as well.  Another thing to consider is bringing your bars up (in relation to your saddle height).  If your bars are lower than your saddle this might be a good place to start (incremental adjustments helped me). 

Ye Pal, Dr Codfish

[Bill Gobie]

Your bars already appear to be at saddle height. Raising the bars more is standard advice, but it seems you've taken a lot of standard advice and it hasn't helped. Instead try increasing your reach. That's pretty easy by swapping in a longer stem. You've tried seatposts and saddles with more setback; perhaps that was a symptom of your reach being too short. That will take some of the weight off your saddle and should ease problems there. It will help you press harder on the pedals and therefore it will not necessarily put a lot more weight on your hands.

You determined the Berthoud saddle caused knee pain, but you haven't said whether you or your fitter observed a biomechanical difference. Was the saddle throwing your knee out of alignment? You might have some (for the moment) tolerable misalignment on other saddles, and the Berthoud altered it so that it became intolerable. (As did the Brooks Team Pro.) Sensitivity to Q-factor and need for lots of float are additional clues that you may have some misalignment. You should look at deeper causes, such as whether you need canted footbeds or even different shoes and pedal system. Wear patterns on the cleats, pedals, and shoes might show whether your feet are trying to tilt and/or rotate. In my own case, there is no mtn system that can hold my feet flat for very long. Once the cleats begin to wear a bit my shoes tilt over the outsides of the pedals and that hurts my knees. After a lot of trial and error I have ended up with Shimano road pedals, Specialized shoes, and some cants. The shoes are built with 2 degrees of outward cant and I've added another 2 degrees for a total of 4 degrees. That moves my knees about an inch outboard. Granted a road system means giving up easy walkability, but the primary activity here is to ride your bike. Or use touring shoes and flat pedals with toe cages and straps. That's what I do when I need better walkability.

I think the first problem you need to fix is alignment. You might need to find a different bike fitter. Then you can experiment with saddles. The saddle really should not be throwing off your alignment, but if that continues to happen maybe it will shed some light on further tweaks to your alignment.

Bill

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:38 PM, DrCodfish <pjinoa...@comcast.net> wrote:

Plus one on strengthening your core, helps with many issues aside from hand numbness. Can't think why you wouldn't use gloves, but adding them could help as well.  Another thing to consider is bringing your bars up (in relation to your saddle height).  If your bars are lower than your saddle this might be a good place to start (incremental adjustments helped me). 

Ye Pal, Dr Codfish

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[Jenny Oh Hatfield]

Thanks for all of these helpful responses, everyone! It's truly appreciated. I'm definitely going to look around for another fitter who's worked with endurance cyclists and take all of your other advice into consideration. 

Cheers,

Jenny