R12 in the Northeast

[LyndaB]

I've been randonneuring for only two years, up in the New England
area. I love this style of riding, and would love to try for an
R-12. Our winters up here are kind of unpredictable, and I'm
wondering if there are others in the area who have successfully
completed R-12 up here.

What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?

Thanks!

- Lynda Beaulieu

[li...@jkassen.org]

> R-12.��Our winters up here are kind of unpredictable, and I'm
> wondering if there are others in the area who have successfully
> completed R-12 up here.

The only person I know to complete an R-12 who frequently rides in MA went down to NJ/PA to complete some of the
winter rides. Excluding BMB, MA has one permanent and there are two in Maine. There are four months (Oct-Feb)
where there isn't an organized brevet in New England so you'll need to leave the area at least once.

I think anyone to complete the BMB permanent in the middle of winter should receive an automatic R-12. :)

> What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
> do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?

Lots of warm, comfortable cloths that won't get too cold when wet. Figuring out how to keep my feet and hands warm
is the hardest part for me -- I've gotten mild frost bite on my hards and feet durring long winter rides in the past. A lot
of people recommend chemical warmers, through I've found the cool off quick in shoes/gloves due to lack of O2
circulation.

Good luck!

Jake

[Dan Driscoll]

We have had quite a few come down and knock out two months worth in a couple
of days, with back to back 200's, happy to help if it helps. DD

Thanks!

- Lynda Beaulieu

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[John Lee Ellis]

Lynda,

Good advice from others. Here's the list of R-12 awardees so far
(including where they live):

http://www.rusa.org/cgi-bin/awardlist_GF.pl?award=r12

Colorado also has iffy conditions through the chilly season (about
half the year). The solution has been to create and ride Permanents,
as you mention. Have you thought of creating one yourself? That's
what I did (well, I created several), to offer folks in my climate
some winter/R-12 opportunities. We've found we have a good chance of
finding at least one a weekend day somewhere in each winter month that
makes for good, safe riding. Naturally, you want to latch on to the
earliest in the month that comes your way.

Good luck!

-john lee

[trosenbauer]

The Eastern PA region offers an R-12 series of monthly 200k events
throughout the year. The past December and January events have had
rather tough weather conditions -- the following ride reports offer a
few tips:
http://parandonneurs.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-pa-dutch-200k.html
http://parandonneurs.blogspot.com/2010/01/pa-dutch-200k-surviving-extreme.html

Regards,

-Tom Rosenbauer
Eastern PA RBA

[Nevin, Willy]

Lynda,

 

Another option is for you to come up with your own perm.  This will allow you to choose a route that may be ridable in the winter.  But better yet is that if the winter weather is favorable on a particular day you can just wake up and ride it without having to notify and coordinate with another perm owner.

 

Willy in Pacifica

 

 Topic: R12 in the Northeast

LyndaB <lynda...@gmail.com> Aug 15 06:29PM -0700 ^

[Pam Wright]

Hey.....I resemble that remark Willy!  (In my case, it's usually if I can play hookey a couple hours early from work!) Pam Wright --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Nevin, Willy <WNe...@FremontGroup.com> wrote:

From: Nevin, Willy <WNe...@FremontGroup.com> Subject: [Randon] R12 in the Northeast

Willy in Pacifica

[Andrew Mead]

Lynda,

You should contact Dave Zion.  He owns a permanent in Mass., has one R12 under his belt and appears to be well on his way to a second, and bookended his first R12 with trips to the Eastern PA R12 series mentioned by Tom Rosenbauer.  In fact, Dave finished his first R12 on one of our (Pa Randonneurs) events last December.  While I'm sure Dave hoped to dodge Boston's winter weather, Pennsylvania can serve up a few weather challenges as well.  Follow this link to the ride report of our snowy brevet. 
http://www.njrando.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=443#p1451
This event tested the mental determination of all and provided much useful information on clothing effectiveness (or lack thereof) in wet conditions. 

Scheduling flexibility is key for R12.  Permanents help.  A willingness to travel helps.  Riding with a group in a brevet format is a huge benefit.  In spite of it all, you'll sometime have to venture out in less than ideal circumstances.  For that you'll need your suitcase of courage.

Andrew Mead
Eastern PA Randonneurs

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[LyndaB]

Thanks for all of the responses! I was really hoping to complete them
all without the traveling. I like Willy's idea: creating some
permanents for the MA area and staying local.

I guess what I was looking for was to see if anyone up here has
actually completed R-12 in the New England area exclusively. It would
mean bundling up for sure!

But has anyone achieved it staying local?

[DrCodfish]

Lynda said:
"What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?"

Hi Lynda. I wrote an article on this very subject for American
Randonneur a year or so ago. I would say the most overlooked aspect
for a sucessful R-12 is planning; both for the long term as well as
for each individual ride.

Do you have a calendar that has all the months that you need to ride
in order to complete your R-12? If not, get one. If so, write in on
the first Satruday of every month "R-12!" That way your spouse, S.O.
kids, dog, cat, poker/knitting club, anyone else who might have some
reasonable claim on your time will know right away that, if everythig
else is good, you'll be out riding that Saturday. Most importantly,
you too will remember not to plan anything for the first Saturday of
every month. Sure, there may be months when there is a foot of ice/
snow/whatever on the ground, in which case you may have to go to plan
B. But if it looks at all rideable on the first Saturday, you know;
cold wet rainy, windy, a typical miserable January day in the NE ...
ride! Keep in mind, if you get it done on January 1, 2011 (which I
happen to know is a Saturday) you have essentialy two whole months
before you absolutely have to ride another 200K perm. But if it is
dangerous out, well then all bets are off. It is not too early now to
get in the habit of riding the first Saturday of every month.

PS: Dan's strategy of 200K perms back ot back on th 31st and then on
the 1st is also a good trick to keep in your bag.

Yr Pal Dr C

[Sterling Hada]

Does the Saratoga Brevet Series count? Yes, I realize that many New Englanders may not necessarily see New York as part of New England, and to mention as much is tantamount to sacrilege. But the SBS is in eastern New York, in Schuylerville, pretty near the Vermont border (and not all that far from the Berkshire area where the Berkshire brevets are offered). Just food for thought.

Sterling

[Bruce...@gdc4s.com]

> What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
> do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?

 

+1 on chemical warmers.  I try to avoid using them frequently, but they're fine for the occasional long or very cold ride where more insulation on the extremities would be too inefficient or not as cost-effective.

 

If you can keep your torso warm, the extremities will eventually follow...although they may wait until well after sunrise.

 

Studded tires are great for frequent shorter rides, but I try to avoid lugging them around for long distances.

 

I would suggest working up to the goal of an R-12 over a few years.  CRW (our local Boston area touring club) has a monthly mileage log on the website that allows you to record the number of months with a metric century and the number of months with a century.  You could work on monthly metrics this year, centuries the next and an R-12 after that.

 

I've been logging monthly metrics since December `07 and centuries since March `09, but I have nothing on club member Joe Repole...he has a streak of at least a couple hundred monthly centuries (he finished his first 100 in y2k).

 

One of the complications of an R-12 is that you'd most likely wind up doing a lot of solo 200ks to stick to an approved route, and solo rides aren't nearly as much fun.  When you shoot for free-form routes, you can at least work a winter club ride into an extended commute to get your mileage in.

 

- Bruce

[Glenn Ammons]

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:33 PM, <Bruce...@gdc4s.com> wrote:
>> What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
>> do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?

Wear shoes that you can run in. This can save your ride and even your bacon.

It can save your ride because getting off the bike and running will
warm you up. Sure, it's slow, but it beats a DNF or frostbite.
Usually, once you're warm again, you can get back on the bike and stay
warm.

It can save your bacon because, if your bike breaks down, you can't
fix it, and it's below freezing, you need to be able to walk/run to
shelter.

--glenn
West Chester, PA, USA

[sekhem313]

> What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and > do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?

yep- you know that you've gone cracky when you insist on riding a 200K on a day when the high temp was 16 degrees...

This is what I've learned so far-

*stay away from anything containing nylon as a baselayer (e.g., armorall)-  it retains moisture and will make you colder.  I use multiple layers of wool or silk that breathe well and will keep you warm even when wet.

*mittons are better than gloves (or better yet- glove liner+gloves+mittons).

*chemical warmers sometimes don't work well inside of shoes or if you are wearing multiple layerrs over your hands.  They need air to work and that sort of defeats the purpose because that air is likely to be cold.

*i've got frost bite damage in both feet- despite multiple layers of booties and the thickest wool socks I could find.  this year I plan on pitching the cycling shoes, installing clips and using UGGS or Sorel boots.  Fashion be damned.

*dressing in layers so you resemble an onion slows you down.  So will conditions that will freeze your eyeballs.  Plan for extra time on the bike.

*I haven't figured out the frozen bottle problem yet.  Insulated bottles are useless after 30 minutes under those conditions.  Sticking the bottles inside my jersey/jacket usually means I'll end up with both frozen bottles and soaked frozen shorts.... :(~

*give yourself permission to use some common sense- this is supposed to be a recreational sport, after all  :)

cherio and ride well

Tammie

 

 

 

[Eric Keller]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 9:29 PM, LyndaB <lynda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> What are your experiences with riding brevets in colder weather, and
> do you have any tips for tackling this challenge?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Lynda Beaulieu

Multiple pairs of gloves and chemical hand warmers. I really don't
think that you need all that much clothing to be warm as long as your
extremities are warm. In fact, I suspect it's counter-productive.
But if your gloves get wet, you are going to want to be able to change
them periodically, and a wet winter brevet is going to take a while.
One of the happiest moments in my randonneuring career was when I
realized I had another pair of gloves in my seat pack. I would also
say that if the forecast is for high winds and extremely low
temperatures, wait for another day.

I completed an R-12 my first year of randonneuring. I really
appreciate all the work that Tom Rosenbauer, Bill Olsen, Andrew Mead
and Rick Carpenter have done to make it possible for me to complete an
R-12. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to travel 6 hours to do a
200k, I used to travel at least that far every weekend when I was
racing and I travel 3 hours round trip to Tom's series. I have also
met randonneurs that traveled considerably further every month to
complete an R-12. Paradoxically, I had the most trouble with the
summer months where my schedule conflicted with Tom's schedule. So a
handy permanent is always good to have.
Eric Keller

[Bill Olsen]

I don't know if I'd ever want to use shoes.  I've completed my R-12s (with several rides in the 10-15 deg F range) exclusively in Shimano sandals.  I like to wiggle my toes to warm them up and there is nothing like keeping the pressure off of your feet .  But then when it is below freezing I'll wear a pair (or two) of wool socks under my Gore-Tex oversocks. 

If I had my druthers I'd prefer to ride a brevet in January or February rather than the miserable, oppressive heat of July/August as long as the roads are not too icy.  One can ALWAYS warm up but I have a heck of a time keeping cool when the temperature and humidity are both above 95.

Bill

> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010
> Subject: Re: [Randon] RE: R12 in the Northeast
> From: glenn....@gmail.com

[Keith Snyder]

Hi, everyone,

This is only my second year as a randonneur (I'm a 300K away from my
first SR series), but I'm an old hand at winter riding in NYC, in all
conditions. (The first blizzard of the year is one of my favorite days
to go out on the bike.)

> *mittons are better than gloves (or better yet- glove liner+gloves+mittons).

I agree--but pogies are better than both. They're like humongous
mittens that mount on the handlebars and protect the bars, shifters,
and brake levers, and you just slip your hands inside. Since most of
the hand coldness comes from wind and water, and the pogies block
those, I wear my favorite summer half-gloves (or no gloves at all)
down below freezing.

> *chemical warmers sometimes don't work well inside of shoes or if you are wearing multiple layerrs over your hands.  They need air to work and that sort of defeats the purpose because that air is likely to be cold.

I use Heat Factory chemical footwarmers when it finally gets REALLY
cold, and they do work. I use the special insole they sell that the
chemical pack slips into: http://www.papaswarehouse.com/-strse-44/warm-toes-feet-footwarmer/Detail.bok

However, you have to give up on the usual approach to cycling shoes.
They have to be oversized by a couple of sizes so the warm air can
circulate inside them. I use them on both my brevet bike with
Eggbeaters and Lake winter cycling boots, and on my commuter folding
bike with platform pedals and LL Bean Gore-Tex hiking boots.

> *I haven't figured out the frozen bottle problem yet.  Insulated bottles are useless after 30 minutes under those conditions.

The JMW500 Thermos fits in a Topeak Modula EX bottle cage:

http://www.sweetmarias.com/sweetmarias/miscellaneous/thermos/nissan-backpack-bottle-silver-jmw-500.html
http://www.google.com/products?client=safari&rls=en&q=topeak%20modula%20ex&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf

Two of my best bike accessory purchases ever. In winter I have hot tea
or cocoa, and it stays hot. In summer I have icewater that stays icy
for a whole brevet.

Hope somebody can use this!


Keith

[Robert Leone]

Dear Randons:

Someone in the R12 in the Northeast thread, actually I think more than
one, has mentioned wearing mittens instead of gloves for those really
cold brevets.

I don't quite have the cold weather experience, but on one ride where
one of my group ride companions noted she'd not worn full gloves because
all her cold weather stuff is ski mittens, etc, I mentioned that with
mittens she could still work the brake levers and the bar-end shifters.
One more good point for bar-end shifters!

Robert Leone

[Spencer Klaassen]

Keith has a lot of good suggestions.  

As a person who has completed the Arrowhead 135 twice, I have seen there are many ways to dress in very low temperatures.  I know many tough people who have ridden through the night at -35F (not wind chill, actual temperature).  The biggest key is testing your gear.  As a bicycle commuter, I get to do this every day.  Here is a good source of information (can be a bit dated but accurate):

http://www.icebike.org/

I think the biggest key is keeping the wind off your skin.  I find the biggest help from sites for cross country skiing.  They have thin layers that allow the ability to vent when the heat builds up from excercise.  

Head:  I probably have more balaclavas than anyone in Missouri.  

Top:  I use very thin wool layers with a wind proof top.  I have ridden for 48 hrs at temperatues lower than -10F with two wool jerseys and a rain coat.  

Hands:  Pogies win but arctic airforce mittens work well (but you can't shift a lot).  

Legs:  Thin layer and then cross country ski pants over it (I go very thin here due to the heat production)

Feet:  The best is flat pedals and mukluks but you will get a lot of stares and comments.  The Lake boots work well if you get them big.  The warmest boot will do no good if it is tight.  

Most winter racers use a system of a camel back and run the hose under the base layers and under the arm to prevent it from freezing.  I like the idea of carrying soup in the winter.  I will have to try this.  

Regards,

Spencer

St Joseph, MO 

 "I don't look at it as a race.  It's more of an adventure." 

   - Pierre Ostor on the Arrowhead 135 

[Donald Perley]

On advantage of not racing is you have more flexibility to scale your
effort level for thermal comfort. I've been paddling through the
winter the last several years and getting too hot is a factor even
with zeroish temperature. Of course in a kayak you can always dump
some heat by rolling.

[Norton]

Lynda,

There's hope for New England randonneurs looking to complete an R-12
locally: David Zion's 215k "Ticket to Rye" and I'm putting the
finishing touches on a 200k here on Martha's Vineyard. Stay tuned for
a 200k permanent based out of Wood's Hole.