Wheel advice-Campagnolo compatible

[JBondra]

I am running 9 speed Campagnolo. My current rear wheel's hub which is
Campy Record is about 11 years old is toast according to my mechanic.

I am looking to buy a Campy compatible rear wheel. Does anyone have
any recommendations? My shop is recommending that I buy a set of Mavic
Elites. I am thinking about those along with just buying a traditional
rear wheel (Campy Record hub with Mavic Open Pro-32 spokes) which I
saw on sale at Performance for around $200. Of course, I will get
grief if I need to have them trued at the shop but the price is far
less than I could have a wheel built for.

Are any of you riding brevets with Mavic Elites or Neuvation SL5's?
(which is another possibility)

How have the Elites held up? Also how harsh is the ride? I have always
used traditional wheels.

I do not have a lot of extra cash at the moment so I am looking to
spend no more than $550 which is what my shop has offered a pair of
Elites for. I would be cutting a bit more than 500 grams from my
current setup.

Thanks,

Jim

[Chicken Sandwich]

I have a certain level of distrust with boutique wheels. Purely
$0.02. But if it were me I would not buy a machine built Mavic
wheelset.

Does your shop not build wheels by hand? If they don't, find someone
who does. There's no reason not to use a setup like the one you have
mentioned, 32H Record hubs with Open Pros, if you're an average sized
rider.

Another option is an offset rear wheel like the Velocity Aerohead OC.
Campy hubs have a lot of dish and the offset rim helps to mitigate
that.

You might also consider 36H for durability.

Call Peter White and see what he thinks. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Chris Burkhardt]

Hi Jim,

I'd give Peter White a call.  He builds a really nice wheel at a fair price.  He even guarantees them.  I you need just a rear wheel, He can build just that.  http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp

-Chris

---

From: JBondra <jbo...@ithaca.edu>
To: randon <ran...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:55:13 PM
Subject: [Randon] Wheel advice-Campagnolo compatible

[littlecircles :: mikeb]

I just replaced the rim on a Campy / Mavic OP combination. 32 hole.
I had about 5,000 miles into it. They started cracking at the nipple
holes.

The wheel that will replace it will be with an Velocity offset rim.
PJW and many on the BL list will argue that a Campy hub gives dish
that can be incompatible with the Mavic OP rims.

I really liked the original wheelset - and perhaps the rim / hub combo
did it in - but I ride dirt / paved / mixed and carry gear, and I'm
not a featherweight by any stretch...
So my advice would be to consider an offset rim if you are going
traditional.

-Mike

[Graham Brodie]

Hi

Sticking my nose in from across the pond.

I've often had hand built wheels, and always suffer multiple failures
from Mavic rims. In recent years I've gone for a couple of factory
wheelsets, - real budget jobs - around 100GBP / $150 - and I have to say
that I've covered 1000's of miles on them and been amazed at how good
they are.

The Campag. Vento G3 spoking wheels have lost about 3 spokes, but the
strength in the rim is such that they only warp slightly, and pull back
in line fine when the spoke is replaced.
I bought a cheap set of Fulcrum Racing 7 wheels, and again and really
impressed with them. ( They also have a wear indicator groove) I think
production lines are that good these days that the old idea of something
from a mass assmbly line being not much good are a bit outdated.

That said, I'm sure if you want a really good set of wheels, and wheel
repairs then knowing a good reliable wheelbuilder is essential, and it's
good to keep our craftsmen in business!

Regards

Graham AUK 335

[Donald Perley]

Multiple failures?  I generally replace rims after the first failure!

My first Mavic SUP (rear) lasted about 20K miles before a spoke eyelet tore.  From what I've read ("The Bicycle Wheel"),  this sort of thing happens more readily on models with harder surface (ceramic or anodized) because that enhances crack propagation, so I replaced it with a plain shiny one.  

I prefer the durability (and some weight saving) of butted spokes.  AFAIK, wheel building machines can't use those.

[Greg]

I've had spoke eyelet failure on my prebuilt Mavic ksyrium rear wheel.
Replace it with a handbuilt DT Swiss rim and a DT Swiss 240s hub for
my Campy components. Runs great.

Greg

[Dark Horse]

The Ksyrium elites ride decently, especially compared to any of
deep-V possibilities. When I switched back and forth between a set of
elites and a set of 240/RR1.1's, I could definitely feel a difference.
Another thing to bear in mind is that Elites have more gyroscopic
effect than ligher wheels. They take a little more to spin up, but
hold speed more easily than lighter wheels. It's a noticeable
difference.
The Mavic hubs are one of the best all-weather designs I know of.
The freehub body needs to come off, be wiped out, and re-oiled
periodically. That's a five minute task with simple tools.
The downsides to remember in the Elites are twofold. First, you
won't find spokes at your LBS unless it's a very unusual one. I've
seen very few break, but when they do it's a pain. Second, the rims
and rebuild are very expensive. Depending on your shop's policies,
it's a 350$ pair of rebuilds, plus shipping. Minimum. No other rims,
no other spokes. Mavic only.
All that said, they're a remarkably good install-and-forget
solution. I've seen them go many thousands of miles without needing to
be touched.

I've had a world of trouble with Mavic Open Pros. Clicking nipples,
cracking eyelets, noisy seam pins, very short lifespans, and crappy
customer service come to mind. They're probably the most popular
lightweight clincher on the planet right now, but bear several things
in mind.

1) It's a 415-gm racing clincher with double eyelets, intended for a
700x28 at the largest.
2) Mavic has reached the point with the OP that they're putting a
pressure limit sticker on the rim. IIRC, those limits are 110lb for a
23c, and 90 for a 28c. That's on a brand-new rim with intact braking
surfaces. Mount a 700x25 on an OP, take it to 110psi, and the rim
opens 1-1.5mm at the outer edge just from the pressure.
3) I have had messengers wear right through OP's in 10 weeks. More
than once, and it wasn't due to embedded metallic crap in the pads.

I've had enough trouble with Mavic and Mavic rims that I won't build
with them anymore unless the customer insists.

Velocity does avoid the clicking/cracking/eyelet troubles, and they're
a lot less expensive than Mavic. They're not as precise as a Mavic or
a DT, but that's a wheelbuilder's criticism. My only consistent
criticism of Velocity is that the braking surfaces don't last as long
as I might like. Compared to the OP's, that'a a minor quibble.

As far as manufactured wheels in general? Mavic and Campagnolo are the
only two I'll recommend freely, and your price range doesn't encompass
Campagnolo's lighter wheelsets.

Take a look at Dt's road rim offerings. The RR1.1 has taken quite a
bit of the OP's market share in the last few years, and the RR1.2 is a
good alternative to the Velocity deep-V. Both have welded seams, and
wear indicators.
I would also be curious why your mechanic decided that your rear hub
was dead. The only part of that hub that doesn't have a part# is the
hubshell itself. The hub isn't far enough out of its product cycle
that parts are impossible to find.

Dark Horse

On May 30, 12:55 pm, JBondra <jbon...@ithaca.edu> wrote:

[Graham Brodie]

Sorry - I means lot's of rims failing - just split another OPEN 4CD last Friday. They don't last long at all.

 

Mine usually break across the eyelets, sometimes a great chunk comes away although the strength of the inner walls seems to hold them together to get home! 

 

Graham

[Emily O'Brien]

I've had good luck with Mavic Open Pro's and also with the MA3.  Haven't tried the models that replaced those two, although I may be due soon.  I've always worn out the braking surfaces before having any other problems, although Jake recently had a big chunk pull out of an MA3 around where the spoke hole had been.  He still rode it around like that for awhile, too.  Although it was a little sad because that was the wheel we built together when we first started dating, that rim gave its good turn of service for probably 30 or 40 thousand miles (the braking surface didn't wear because it was a rear wheel on a fixed gear with only a front brake).  

I trust my own hand-built wheels as much as I'd trust anyone else's, but I also like knowing that if I did break a spoke or two, I could still finish the ride.  With 32 spokes, one broken one gives you a noticeable wobble, but you can keep rolling.  With 20 spokes, one broken spoke means the wheel won't clear the brakes and maybe not even the seatstays, and you're calling for a ride home.  

Donald Perley: Re. wheel building machines: I've always been fascinated by how they work, but I didn't know that they can't use butted spokes.  Do you know know why that is? Or is it just because butted spokes are more expensive and machine-built wheels are cheap?

On a more philosophical level, it's hard for me to believe that we can't figure out how to make a wheel-building machine that's better than a human, or at least equally good but much faster.  I suppose the issue is really that it just isn't economically worth the amount of precision engineering and programming that would be involved, not that it can't be done.  Either way, I'm happy enough with my wheelbuilder.

Emily "rim job :-O " O'Brien

[littlecircles :: mikeb]

I think the issue with the OP and the Campy hubs are excessive dish,
as I have learned. 3-4 cracks along the nipples on the drive side. I'm
very happy with my OP on the front with the SON, and would be happy
with an OP on a fixed gear (but I have Salsa Delgado rims as my fixed
gear is my snow bike and all terrain-o-saurus.

-Mike

On May 31, 6:21 pm, Emily O'Brien <emilyonwhe...@emilysdomain.org>
wrote:

[WMdeR]

Dear Jim,

Spare parts are available for the campy record hubs--are you sure you
just don't need another set of cones and fresh bearings? If you need
a new set of cups, then it is probably time to consider replacing the
hub, as pressing in the cups and so on is time-consuming.

The Campagnolo record wheelset you reference as available online is
nominally hand-built with double-butted spokes, and is pretty cheap
relative to buying the parts and building a wheel yourself. It is
probably a tension and true away from being ready to go.

Anecdotal evidence follows:

I built a set of campy record hubs with Mavic Open Pro rims, 32hole,
2.0mm/1.5mm/2.0mm non-drive side, 2/1.8/2 drive-side spokes, and brass
nipples in 2003. They're on their second set of cones, and are due up
for a new rim once I get around to it (due to my replacement schedule,
see below). They've given me close to 30,000 miles of reliable
service.

Concerning open pro rim reliability. In my experience the hard- and
ceramic-anodized ones were a bad idea. They cracked as described by
others. The cosmetically anodized ones? They are theoretically more
likely to crack than an un-anodized, polished rim, but I haven't had
any trouble with them on any of my bikes.

Note: I weigh just under 11 stone (ca 68kg/150lb), depending on the
season. While I ride all my bikes both on and off-pavement, and dent
rims on occasion, I'm not terribly hard on equipment. The front rim
braking surface is usually the first point of failure on my wheels.I
typically replace my rear rims when I wear out the matching front rim
from braking, so I replace my rims every few years. I have known
others (who weigh a good bit more than I do) who have had trouble with
the Open Pros cracking at the eyelets on highly-dished wheels.

I've used Mavic pre-built wheels in the past, and they work fine until
one breaks a spoke. Spares are expensive and hard to come by, and
require special tools (that are provided with the wheelset). As with
any 20 spoke wheel, a broken spoke is a ride-stopper unless you carry
spares and the means to change them.

I'd recommend the wheelset you reference with an experienced hand
(yours?) to touch them up and stress-relieve them. Alternatively, if
you decide to build your own wheel or get one built for you locally,
the same hub, double-butted spokes to match your weight, brass
nipples, and either the velocity Aerohead OCR (23-28mm tire) or the
Synergy OCR (28-40mm tire) depending on the width of tire you're
using.

Cheers,

Will

William M. deRosset
RUSA 2401

[russell...@yahoo.com]

The Performance built Record Open Pro wheel you cite for $200 will be
fine. I used one on the rear of my bike in PBP last time. I
retensioned and retrued it before PBP. It does not come from
Performance ready to go. I had an Open Pro rim crack on me around the
eyelets. Non drive side oddly. So I don't recommend Mavic pdoducts.
And will not buy any more new Mavic products. The last two rear
wheels I built I used Velocity Aerohead OCR (Universal Cycles) with
Centaur rear hubs from Nashbar. Sapim spokes from Dans Comp.

[Orin]

On Jun 1, 10:22 am, "russellseat...@yahoo.com"

<russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Performance built Record Open Pro wheel you cite for $200 will be
> fine.  I used one on the rear of my bike in PBP last time.  I
> retensioned and retrued it before PBP.  It does not come from
> Performance ready to go.  I had an Open Pro rim crack on me around the
> eyelets.  Non drive side oddly.  So I don't recommend Mavic pdoducts.
> And will not  buy any more new Mavic products.  The last two rear
> wheels I built I used Velocity Aerohead OCR (Universal Cycles) with
> Centaur rear hubs from Nashbar.  Sapim spokes from Dans Comp.
>

You were lucky.

The one I have had a nipple break unprovoked, while I was holding the
wheel after removing a cassette. The spokes were a little short for
the aluminium nipples and the nipple broke off at the head with a loud
bang.

I've replaced the nipples with brass as I figured it wasn't likely to
be an isolated failure.

Other than the first rear Campy Chorus/Open Pro that I owned that was
built too tight and cracked, I've had good luck with them. I've worn
out the breaking surfaces on two front rims!

Orin.