Best new, small SUV that can take a bike standing up (w/front-wheel removed)

[NickBull]

I'm looking for a new, small AWD SUV that can take a bike standing up w/front wheel removed.  I want to be able to sleep in the back of the car next to the bike (e.g. before or after a brevet), so it does me no good to know that it's easy to put the bike lying on its side, because then there won't be any room for me to sleep next to the bike!  Reason to get a new AWD car is that my wife will be driving it a lot in the winter and I want something rock-solid and reliable for her to drive.  I'll be driving it to brevets during the non-snowy part of the year.

Honda Element would have been perfect for this, but of course they're not made anymore.

Appreciate any ideas you have.

Thanks,

Nick

[David Buzzee]

Any list of cars to suit your needs will include Subaru, several models will work.

David Buzzee, now driving his third Subaru WRX

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[NickBull]

Well, two weekends ago I went and tested which cars I could fit my bike into, standing upright with the front wheel off.  Answer: 

Toyota RAV4 works but only barely, the saddle is jammed tight against the roof whichever direction the bike faces. 

Subaru Forester was a complete fail.  Maybe if I removed the saddle or pushed it down in the seat tube.  But my knees are very sensitive to having the saddle height just so, and I didn't want to run into "issues" with driving to a ride, not getting the saddle height exactly right, and then having sore knees for a week or two.  It's a pity because I was all set to buy a Forester.

Honda CR-V works and has plenty of clearance above the saddle, whichever direction the bike faces.  Easiest is to roll it in backwards and then there is plenty of clearance to put in a fork-mount rack to hold the front end up high enough that it isn't resting on the fender.

The cars are all pretty comparable otherwise.  Subaru arguably has a better 4WD drivetrain but I haven't seen a lot of complaints about either the RAV4 or CR-V.  Our 2002 CR-V has worked just fine in all the weather conditions we've been hit with.  We're not trying to go off-road, just be able to get home through an unexpected several-inch snowstorm.

So we now own a new (2014) CR-V.  Or more precisely, Honda Finance owns it.

Nick

[Ken Freeman]

I saw a Fit with a bike upright in the back and room left over for sleeping, but it is not 4wd and would not meet your other criteria. Plus the bike had a very small frame - not sure you stow a larger frame without lowering the saddle.

--

Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

[Nicholas Bull]

I've also heard that the Fit has a surprisingly tall cargo area.  I never tried it, but I did look in the back at the showroom and it looked at least as big as the CR-V, just not as long.  A 4WD version of the Fit is coming out in the spring, to be called an HR-V (http://automobiles.honda.com/hr-v/).  Because the body is not as long, I'm not sure it would be long enough to sleep in (the CR-V will probably be pretty snug).

[Jim House - Custom Computer Solutions]

Nick,

 

Did you sit for a while in the driver seat of the RAV4 (or any Toyota) – it is like a cement seat.

That is what removed this vehicle from my great search…

 

Since I could not find any auto that would seat 5 or allow a vertical bike – I focused on the comfort of the driver.

 

I picked the Subaru Outback.

We have about 20,000 miles with multiple bikes on the roof.
We drop almost 7 mpg with any bike on the roof.

But for the most part I lay a single flat with the rear seats down.

And curse it most every time I do this.

 

We moved from a GMC Yukon XL – where I could put 4 bikes vertically and take 4 passengers.

But the gas cost is almost three times what we now have in the Outback.

And you can buy 3 Outback’s for the same price of the Yukon.

 

We have to many other problems with the Outback – most minor but it drive me crazy and I cannot wait to dump this vehicle.

 

 

Good luck

 

Jim House

Maumee, OH

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2014 08:33 AM, Jim House - Custom Computer Solutions wrote:

Nick,

 

Did you sit for a while in the driver seat of the RAV4 (or any Toyota) – it is like a cement seat.

That is what removed this vehicle from my great search…

 

Since I could not find any auto that would seat 5 or allow a vertical bike – I focused on the comfort of the driver.

 

I picked the Subaru Outback.

We have about 20,000 miles with multiple bikes on the roof.

Do you need to use a step ladder to get the bikes up there?

We drop almost 7 mpg with any bike on the roof.

But for the most part I lay a single flat with the rear seats down.

And curse it most every time I do this.

 

We moved from a GMC Yukon XL – where I could put 4 bikes vertically and take 4 passengers.

But the gas cost is almost three times what we now have in the Outback.

And you can buy 3 Outback’s for the same price of the Yukon.

 

We have to many other problems with the Outback – most minor but it drive me crazy and I cannot wait to dump this vehicle.

 

Now that is quite a recommendation...!

[Old5ten]

most subarus suck in terms of upright bike storage because the floor of the storage area is too high.  best bike car would be the honda fit.  i can get 4 bikes/2 people or 3 bikes/3 people (have done that many times for mtb) inside with the front wheels off.  unfortunately,there's no 4wd version available in the US.  i've slept in it a few times, which works out well with a few judicious adjustments and padding.

used honda elements are still available.

[Jim House - Custom Computer Solutions]

Steve,

 

I have the Thule bicycle rack (square bar) system.

I did have to purchase new feet for the roof system on the Outback (replacing the gutter system feet for our old GMC Yukon).

Still retained all parts just in case we ever go back to a gutter system again.
We had three clamp on bike racks and an original Thule tandem rack.

We later replaced the tandem rack with this newer model.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajk6ETiNH-s

 

We also have a Thule cargo box (for skis) this will also fit onto the Outback built in roof bars (when moved to the across the vehicle position).

We have had no issues in either configuration with the cargo box.

 

To get the single bikes on the center two racks I need to step into the door well while lifting the bike into the rack. (not a big deal).

For the old tandem rack we needed a milk crate in order to mount the rear wheel into a Y shaped yoke system for the rear wheel.

With the new tandem rack I can solo with one hand swing the rear of the tandem without any help onto the rear of the rack system and synch down with a Velcro strap.

However with the tandem rack mounted, we cannot open the rear hatch all of the way.
If we use the tandem rack for a single, part of the rear of the rack will slide out and we can then use the rear hatch.

Again this is only for the TAMDEM RACK.

 

One thing that worries me for this system – the Thule web site provided me with their foot model number I needed for the replacement feet.

They gave me the model number for my specific Outback with the specific model year.

After the purchase in reading the instructions you needed to have the feet separated by 24 inches.

Give the build of the Outback roof bars and the configuration of the feet I only get 22+ inches center to center separation.

I have emailed Thule two times with regards to this issue and have received NO response.

 

While on a 3,000 mile road trip with two singles and one tandem on the roof we had and issue.

After driving at high speeds (70 MPH posted) in Bad Lands of South Dakota into a high wind thunderstorm the bikes started moving a lot.

We slowed down to 55 and it was a little better.

As a result the Outback roof rack is now looser then when we purchased it  – I can physically lift the rack when mounted up and down.

Our dealer stated that this movement is within an acceptable tolerance.

 

I would not purchase and Outback (or Subaru) ever again.

We also lose about 7 mpg with the bikes on the roof.

 

Jim House

Maumee, OH

 

From: ran...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ran...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:47 AM
To: ran...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Randon] Best new, small SUV that can take a bike standing up (w/front-wheel removed)

 

On 11/25/2014 08:33 AM, Jim House - Custom Computer Solutions wrote:

--

[Fastskiguy]

I'm finding the ford F-150 is just perfect ;)

[Leslie Tierstein]

Yes the Fit easily fits my smallish (around 50 cms) bikes with the front wheel off and even fits my 650b bike in one piece but with some finagling. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Old5ten]

how does it do on gas milage?

--

[Old5ten]

it easily fits 56cm frame sized bikes with the front wheel off.  we've maxed out with 4 bikes: 2 road and 2 TT, one each at 56cm and 54cm, plus a whole lot of other bike/personal gear.  it all sits inside and we're cruising along at high 30's to low 40's mpg depending on conditions.  the fit is truly cavernous!

[Dan Driscoll]

That might depend on how you calculate gas milage or if you are computing MPG OR dollars per mile. 

Last year driving to Taste of Carolina, we had 4 people, 4 bikes, and a lot of luggage, in an extended cab pick up, we got almost 20 miles a gallon Hwy. 

Is that about $0.03 cents a mile per person? 

MPG may not be as important as capacity and carpooling. 

Yes. I also drive a pick up :-) It’s been great for 15 years. 

[stonehog]

It seems that a hybrid AWD minivan would offer the best mileage and storage options here. Not without the dread soccer-mom stigma, I suppose.

Brian Hanson
Still guiltily driving the paid for Tundra waiting for the electric NV200...
Seattle, WA

[Old5ten]

hmmm... by that math we'd come out even in terms of cost and people, but could carry 4 more bike by using 2 fits.

[NickBull]

The only AWD minivan available at the moment is a Toyota Sienna.  That would work really well for me, but ... 2 kids in college and wife in grad school means that I wanted to minimize what we sink into a car.  Plus, there's somewhat of an MPG penalty and this car's primary purpose is for my wife to make the long drive back and forth to her grad school several times a week, so fuel efficiency is worth something.  I figured that the least expensive Sienna (last year's model) was about $7000 more than the CR-V. 

[Old5ten]

i think we are all looking for the perfect bike/outdoor vehicle: voluminous cargo space, great gas milage, 4wd or awd, and a bit of clearance.  

i think a honda fit w. 4wd, raised an inch or two, would make the perfect vehicle.  alas, they only exist in japan.  however, it looks like honda is catching on and will enter a 'new' line in the 2015 market, the hr-v.  if the hr-v has a similar layout to the fit in terms of dropped storage floor and flat folding rear seats, gets decent gas milage, has low maintenance, and is priced right (i.e. not too much greater than a fit) it could be a viable alternative.

--

[Old5ten]

just to answer the question of hr-v configurations and cargo space:

http://automobiles.honda.com/hr-v/#versatility

[Sam Huffman]

My brother and I did a road trip a couple years ago in a late model Outback. While there were a few things that bugged me about it, we found that with very little difficulty (remove both wheels and possibly the seats) one can fit two large bikes (a 64cm and a 62cm, plus 6 wheels) in the far back area even with the rear seat up. This of course lets you use the retractable cover to hide the bikes, decreasing the risk of theft (and quieting the rattles inherent in having 6 wheels and 2 bikes back there.. a blanket would have helped, in hindsight). And with the bikes stored that way, there's no impact on mileage.

That said, it doesn't meet the OP's criteria, so obviously not in the running, but for anyone looking for an affordable AWD vehicle that can haul a couple bikes with ease, in my opinion it's a great option. I understand the current models with a CVT and small engine get over 30MPG highway, which for a car that size is impressive.

[Randy Graves]

My 62cm Rivendell fits fine in the back of my VW GTI, without removing the front wheel, lying comfortably on its side.  Why does the OP's bike need to stand up?

[Hamish Moffatt]

On 26/11/14 09:41, Sam Huffman wrote:
> My brother and I did a road trip a couple years ago in a late model
> Outback. While there were a few things that bugged me about it, we
> found that with very little difficulty (remove both wheels and
> possibly the seats) one can fit two large bikes (a 64cm and a 62cm,
> plus 6 wheels) in the far back area even with the rear seat up. This
> of course lets you use the retractable cover to hide the bikes,
> decreasing the risk of theft (and quieting the rattles inherent in
> having 6 wheels and 2 bikes back there.. a blanket would have helped,
> in hindsight). And with the bikes stored that way, there's no impact
> on mileage.
>
> That said, it doesn't meet the OP's criteria, so obviously not in the
> running, but for anyone looking for an affordable AWD vehicle that can
> haul a couple bikes with ease, in my opinion it's a great option. I
> understand the current models with a CVT and small engine get over
> 30MPG highway, which for a car that size is impressive.
>
>

I have a 2013 Outback with diesel engine and manual transmission and it
gets 36+ MPG on the highway easily. Bikes fit easily in the back, or I
can put them on the roof. I did a 1400km road trip with two bikes on the
roof and got 33 MPG (7L/100km in metric speak) so there is definitely a
penalty but it's still good.

I think Jim just overloaded his roof rack given the strong winds, they
do have load limits.

No idea if you can get this car in your market, but I love mine (I'm in
Australia).


Hamish

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Keep in mind that US gallons are smaller than gallons in the rest of the world, so USA MPG values are smaller.

[William Beck]

But be sure to test your own bike first. Based on things that I had read on lists like this one, I expected to get a Fit the last time we bought a car. But it was the only car we tried that couldn't fit my bike at all. It was too short to fit my 60cm bike upright with the front wheel off (without removing the saddle) and was too narrow to lay the bike down. (The bike easily lays down in our Honda Civic and Subaru Impreza.) So ironically the Fit was the only car that didn't fit.

Bill Beck

[Joel Niemi]

"It might" be possible to drive with the bike flat, and then lift / lash / prop the bike up at an angle to create some space to snuggle under & sleep.

I no longer have the Forester (gas engine - they've made it clear there are no plans to import diesel-powered cars to North America), and you need to look at a current model, but it would be worth checking out. There's quite a bit of height in them - not enough to have bike upright however.

I think you could work out something using the ceiling mounted shoulder belt anchor for the rear seat middle passenger. A bungee cord passed around the top tube would hold the bike up at an angle. Have drive side of bike up to keep chain away from your sleeping bag. Kind of like the space in an A-shaped pup tent. Enter and exit your lodging through a rear door.

[Lounging Longhorn]

I would like to have a diesel Chevy Colorado when they bring them out.  Think it;s going to be a 2.8L 4 cylinder from one of the car mags I read.

--

[ripva...@gmail.com]

Mercedes GLK250 with the blutec diesel is small and seems to fit a bike for a smaller rider or those willing to remove the saddle and it should get 35mpg on the hwy. 

Putting a road bike into the back with saddle might be a challenge for larger riders.  Saddle to ground distance on my bile is 45 inches.  One of my vehicles is a rather large PU, and it will barely fit when I remove the back cabin seats but the bike has to be tilted a bit.  I just throw the bike in the bed.  If I were buying a new SUV to sleep and store my bike....wait, would it be cheaper to just rent a motel room than buy a new vehicle?  I ain't no economist but the sales tax on a new vehicle would pay for many years of brevet overnight hotel rooms.   Nontheless, a Lexus LX570 would be my ticket.

[Chip Bole]

This has been a very interesting and informative thread.

I'm curious if there are any opinions, or especially, real experience with respect to the Ford Transit Connect.

It is most often seen as a utility vehicle, but there is a long wheel base, seven passenger version with more windows. It might be able to take a bike standing up.

Any information, pro or con?

Chip Bole
.

[Richard Stum | eoGEAR]

I was at a recent trade show (Tour de Tucson) and one of the other vendors had a Transit. They used it to transport apparel in tubs and not a bike. I typically carry both a bike and tubs of product to shows and my RAV4 is rather small for that. They said the Transit was 4-cyl and with just two seats and it ran them about $20K new. It has a very tall roof, so it should easily fit my 60-62cm bikes w/o removing saddles. In fact, with only two seats in it, I bet it would fit 2-3 bikes with all wheels attached.

The other vehicle I have been looking at is the now discontinued Honda Element (perhaps that has been mentioned already).

Cheers,
Richard Stum
Living in the Mountains of Central Utah
Rap Sheet Below...
Salt Lake Randonneurs RBA
Rando Richard (blog)
My Strava Uploads
Facebook
eoGEAR (rando stuff)

.

[NickBull]

Ford Transit would have been a great solution, but no 4WD/AWD is available.  Honda Element also would be a great solution if available new, but they are so popular that the price for a 3-year-old 4WD Element with 45,000 miles on it is about $21,000 -- only a thousand less than we ultimately paid for a brand-new (2014) AWD CR-V.  Since the main purpose of the car was reliable transportation in winter conditions, it seems like buying a 45,000-mile-old car for almost the price of a new car didn't make sense.

Nick

[Mark Beaver]

My Fit will take any of my 63cm frames, front wheel off, standing up vertical.  It's the main reason I bought the car, and I'd buy another one when this one's dead - but it's been great so far.  But at 6'3" I certainly couldn't sleep in it, as the OP stated.  But real world 53MPG on the highway.

Mark Beaver

Randonneurs Nova Scotia

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 8:20:21 AM UTC-4, NickBull wrote:

I've also heard that the Fit has a surprisingly tall cargo area.  I never tried it, but I did look in the back at the showroom and it looked at least as big as the CR-V, just not as long.  A 4WD version of the Fit is coming out in the spring, to be called an HR-V (http://automobiles.honda.com/hr-v/).  Because the body is not as long, I'm not sure it would be long enough to sleep in (the CR-V will probably be pretty snug).

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 5:16 AM, Ken Freeman <kenfre...@gmail.com> wrote:

I saw a Fit with a bike upright in the back and room left over for sleeping, but it is not 4wd and would not meet your other criteria. Plus the bike had a very small frame - not sure you stow a larger frame without lowering the saddle.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:22 PM, NickBull <nick.bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, two weekends ago I went and tested which cars I could fit my bike into, standing upright with the front wheel off.  Answer: 

Toyota RAV4 works but only barely, the saddle is jammed tight against the roof whichever direction the bike faces. 

Subaru Forester was a complete fail.  Maybe if I removed the saddle or pushed it down in the seat tube.  But my knees are very sensitive to having the saddle height just so, and I didn't want to run into "issues" with driving to a ride, not getting the saddle height exactly right, and then having sore knees for a week or two.  It's a pity because I was all set to buy a Forester.

Honda CR-V works and has plenty of clearance above the saddle, whichever direction the bike faces.  Easiest is to roll it in backwards and then there is plenty of clearance to put in a fork-mount rack to hold the front end up high enough that it isn't resting on the fender.

The cars are all pretty comparable otherwise.  Subaru arguably has a better 4WD drivetrain but I haven't seen a lot of complaints about either the RAV4 or CR-V.  Our 2002 CR-V has worked just fine in all the weather conditions we've been hit with.  We're not trying to go off-road, just be able to get home through an unexpected several-inch snowstorm.

So we now own a new (2014) CR-V.  Or more precisely, Honda Finance owns it.

Nick

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:11:06 PM UTC-5, David Buzzee wrote:

Any list of cars to suit your needs will include Subaru, several models will work.

David Buzzee, now driving his third Subaru WRX

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:30 PM, NickBull <nick.bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm looking for a new, small AWD SUV that can take a bike standing up w/front wheel removed.  I want to be able to sleep in the back of the car next to the bike (e.g. before or after a brevet), so it does me no good to know that it's easy to put the bike lying on its side, because then there won't be any room for me to sleep next to the bike!  Reason to get a new AWD car is that my wife will be driving it a lot in the winter and I want something rock-solid and reliable for her to drive.  I'll be driving it to brevets during the non-snowy part of the year.

Honda Element would have been perfect for this, but of course they're not made anymore.

Appreciate any ideas you have.

Thanks,

Nick

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[Lynne Fitz]

I am smiling, because I just pitched another "trade in your Honda Element so we can sell it to someone else at a profit" letter from the dealer into the recycle bin.

[Eric Norris]

I also have an Element, which I love, and I’m currently weighing options for the future, since they are no longer made. Those include buying a newer-than-mine used Element *or* eventually dropping a new engine/trans in mine. The rest of the running gear should last almost indefinitely—see the 1950s cars that are still being used on a daily basis in Cuba.

I have about 120,000 miles on my Element, and I figure I can get at least 200,000 out of the engine.

One really great feature of my Element: it’s paid off!

—Eric N
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
www.wheelsnorth.org
Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @campyonlyguy

> On Dec 19, 2014, at 10:23 AM, Lynne Fitz <fitz...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I am smiling, because I just pitched another "trade in your Honda Element so we can sell it to someone else at a profit" letter from the dealer into the recycle bin.
>

[Larry Parker]

I stopped the timer after my ride, but stupidly left my Garmin EDGE turned
on while tossing it into my bag of stuff. When I got home there were 20
extra miles added to my ride file. Much of it at 65 mph! Is there a way to
edit and delete that part of the record >

Larry Parker

[littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi]

Yes. Go into basecamp and just delete those points you don't want.


And, did you create a new post or respond to the one about the SUV?

Far easier to keep subjects straight if you start a new thread for each new question.

[Neal Becker]

I was amazed when I arrived at a bike ride one time, two guys popped out, and removed 2 bikes mounted vertically in the back of a Honda Fit!

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Nicholas Bull <nick.bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've also heard that the Fit has a surprisingly tall cargo area.  I never tried it, but I did look in the back at the showroom and it looked at least as big as the CR-V, just not as long.  A 4WD version of the Fit is coming out in the spring, to be called an HR-V (http://automobiles.honda.com/hr-v/).  Because the body is not as long, I'm not sure it would be long enough to sleep in (the CR-V will probably be pretty snug).

On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 5:16 AM, Ken Freeman <kenfre...@gmail.com> wrote:

I saw a Fit with a bike upright in the back and room left over for sleeping, but it is not 4wd and would not meet your other criteria. Plus the bike had a very small frame - not sure you stow a larger frame without lowering the saddle.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:22 PM, NickBull <nick.bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, two weekends ago I went and tested which cars I could fit my bike into, standing upright with the front wheel off.  Answer: 

Toyota RAV4 works but only barely, the saddle is jammed tight against the roof whichever direction the bike faces. 

Subaru Forester was a complete fail.  Maybe if I removed the saddle or pushed it down in the seat tube.  But my knees are very sensitive to having the saddle height just so, and I didn't want to run into "issues" with driving to a ride, not getting the saddle height exactly right, and then having sore knees for a week or two.  It's a pity because I was all set to buy a Forester.

Honda CR-V works and has plenty of clearance above the saddle, whichever direction the bike faces.  Easiest is to roll it in backwards and then there is plenty of clearance to put in a fork-mount rack to hold the front end up high enough that it isn't resting on the fender.

The cars are all pretty comparable otherwise.  Subaru arguably has a better 4WD drivetrain but I haven't seen a lot of complaints about either the RAV4 or CR-V.  Our 2002 CR-V has worked just fine in all the weather conditions we've been hit with.  We're not trying to go off-road, just be able to get home through an unexpected several-inch snowstorm.

So we now own a new (2014) CR-V.  Or more precisely, Honda Finance owns it.

Nick

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:11:06 PM UTC-5, David Buzzee wrote:

Any list of cars to suit your needs will include Subaru, several models will work.

David Buzzee, now driving his third Subaru WRX

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:30 PM, NickBull <nick.bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm looking for a new, small AWD SUV that can take a bike standing up w/front wheel removed.  I want to be able to sleep in the back of the car next to the bike (e.g. before or after a brevet), so it does me no good to know that it's easy to put the bike lying on its side, because then there won't be any room for me to sleep next to the bike!  Reason to get a new AWD car is that my wife will be driving it a lot in the winter and I want something rock-solid and reliable for her to drive.  I'll be driving it to brevets during the non-snowy part of the year.

Honda Element would have been perfect for this, but of course they're not made anymore.

Appreciate any ideas you have.

Thanks,

Nick

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Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

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Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it

[Larry Parker]

Thanks everybody. I finally managed to get this done!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Beganyi" <mike.b...@gmail.com>
To: "Larry Parker" <LPar...@zoomtown.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Randon] recorded the drive home


You need to double click the route or right click and get to the details.
You can then delete the last however many points you need from the list.

I also think you can do it graphically. But don't remember.

:: :: ::
Mike Beganyi
www.littlecirclesvt.com
www.mikebeganyi.com

> On Dec 21, 2014, at 12:30 PM, Larry Parker <LPar...@zoomtown.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have never used BaseCamp. I am struggling with how to delete stuff . . .
> any quick tips?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "littlecirclesvt.com :: mike beganyi"
> <mike.b...@gmail.com>
> To: <ran...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:14 PM
> Subject: [Randon] recorded the drive home