Lima beans versus runner beans

[Urban Artichoke]

Does anyone know how to tell if you have a true lima bean? I ask for a
couple of reasons:

First, I bought a bag of very tasty dried beans from Iacopi Farms at
our farmer's market, and they call them "Italian Butter Beans" which
sounds kinda generic. From what I've read butter beans are usually
baby lima beans.
I planted some, and they are growing well. (They sell only a few types
but they're always nice beans-I grow their Cranberry beans too).

Second- I bought some Gigante beans from them which I read are runner
beans. But an entry (the only entry for this bean) in the 2010 Seed
Savers Yearbook says that Gigante beans are mistakenly classified as
runner beans, but they are actually limas! Well I planted a few last
Sunday so I'll see if the cotyledons come up out of the ground, which
means they are NOT runners, but if they do, how do I know they are
lima beans versus other? Is it only by the shape of the seeds?

Yes, it's sad, these things keep me awake at night, but I figured this
group would understand...

By the way, Steve's new book- "Heirloom Bean Grower's Guide" is really
nice, a must have, in my opinion.

Patricia

[Urban Artichoke]

For anyone who cares to know- the Gigante beans I planted are
definitely runners, not limas; and I read in Steve's book that
"Italian Butter Beans" are actually runner beans too- so much for the
lima bean question...

[Jana]

Hi Patricia,

I'm growing a "Gigante" bean for the first time, too.  Mine doesn't appear to be a runner bean.  Here is a link to a conversation about the confusion around this bean:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/legumes/msg022112568595.html

I was going to say that you could tell a lima from a P. vulgaris because the limas often have a smoother (less hairy), more grayish green leaf--but then I went out and looked carefully, and found that this is not always true.  So you might have to wait until they set seed to be sure. 

Jana

[Urban Artichoke]

Thanks Jana,
I appreciate the link; Ill check it out- this can be so complicated,
but it keeps it interesting! In Steve Sando's heirloom bean book, he
says they are runners, but I'm sure there could be different types of
beans that get labeled with the same name.

What kind of limas do you grow? I have lots of different beans I'm
growing this summer, but none are limas, as it turns out.

Patricia

[Jana]

Patricia,

This year the limas we are growing Dreer's Improved, Speckled Calico,
Doc Martin's, Illinois Giant, and Black Jungle pole beans, and German
Red, Fordhook, Jackson Wonder, and Dixie Butterpea bush beans. I also
planted one called "Mexican Black", but it doesn't look like we have
the right climate for it, as they are not thriving. I'm not sure the
Black Jungle will do well here either, but they both sounded so
interesting that I wanted to try them. I live in Northern California,
and have a moderate climate with cool (50s and 60s F) nights. We've
had pretty good luck in the past with most of the others.

The trouble with common names is that so many different plants can
have the same name--but that's all we've got with beans! I like the
new heirloom bean book, too. I saw several beans new to me that I'd
like to try next year.

What beans are you growing? Do you have favorites that you usually
plant? What is your climate like?

Jana

[Urban Artichoke]

Hi again,
Here's my bean list (currently growing):
From my last year's saved seeds: Cranberry, Emerite (a wonderful
stringless green bean; seeds originally from Rene's Garden seeds), and
Scarlet Runner.
Seeds from Rancho Gordo: (runners) Ayocote Morado, Ayocote Negro,
Alubia Criollo, Cannellini Runner.
From Seed Saver Exchange: Tiger's Eye, Hidatsa Shield Figure,
Hutterite Soup, Roma (for green beans).
Seeds from Iacopi Farms: Gigante, a runner.

Hey you are not so far from me- I'm on the SF Peninsula, in Mountain
View, with similar climate- this year's spring took a loooong time to
warm up! in fact it didn't until late June right?!

see my website for pictures and blog articles: urbanartichoke.com
I'm posting some on our group's Flickr site too-

cheers!
Patricia

[Jana Ulmer]

Patricia,

That sounds like a nice list.  Emerite is one of my favorites, too, although for the last couple of years, Cobra has given it a run for the money.  We grow True Red Cranberry, and several other "fresh" beans, but we haven't grown the other things on your list.  It will be interesting to compare your Gigante runner with your Cannellini runner.  I wonder how different they will be.  Please post and tell us when you harvest. We probably have a fairly similar summer climate, although we are in a cold spot, and in an average winter have 10-15 nights of temps in the mid-to-upper 20's, so considerably colder than Mt. View in winter.

Jana