Start Up Partner Emails

[Pat Allan]

Hi all

We seem to be getting several 'hunting for co-founder' emails to the list lately - which is a nice reflection of people wanting to work with Rubyists.

However, I'm wondering if this is the right forum for such discussions? There's also the Silicon Beach mailing list, which is a lot more start-up focused - but then, if people want Rubyists, not just any developer, maybe here is the right spot? And if so, I guess the job posting guidelines apply, right? Or some adaption thereof?

Any thoughts?

--
Pat
e: p...@freelancing-gods.com || m: +614 1327 3337
w: http://freelancing-gods.com || t: twitter.com/pat
bounce: http://trampolineday.com || skype: patallan

[ben wiseley]

You can never have too many job offers IMO.

Newb to the list/country though.

-ben

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.
To post to this group, send email to rails-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rails-oceani...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en.

[Warren Seen]

Pat,

I love your optimism! A more cynical person might suggest that the bizdev bozos have suddenly discovered rails is great (what took so long?!) and are now furiously trying to hitch their cart to it ;)

Anyway, i digress... at a bare minimum, I'd say the job posting guidelines should perhaps be adhered to, since looking for a co-founder is not a lot different to offering an equity-only job?

If it becomes too noisy, then maybe it needs to be shunted off to another list, but at the moment, I don't think it's a big deal.

Cheers,

Warren.

[Nicholas Jefferson]

> since looking for a co-founder is not a lot different to offering an equity-only job?

In that case it should have "[SCAM]" in the subject line.

Thanks,

Nicholas

[Bayan Khalili]

Hi,

I believe that shutting the door and redirecting people interested in Ruby developers is not in the best interest of the community.

In fact, much of Rails' success is owed to the inspiration and contributions of start ups.

I understand that there are dangers (scammers and risks involved in start ups) but I think that's even more reason to allow discussions of this kind to take place here. In fact, one of my favourite posts is the recent discussion on contracting, which came about in response to the rates advertised by job postings.

Sure, set up some guidelines. They have served us well for job postings. But this is definitely the right place to post interest in Ruby developers. We can always revisit this issue if/when it gets out of hand.

Regards,

Bayan

[Ivan Vanderbyl]

Pat,

I would argue that the Silicon beach mailing list is more for people looking for business minded co-founders, and as such most posts to this list in this regard are business founders looking for tech co-founders. Given the current state of the market for such talent they should follow the guideline of: "The developer you're after is like that really hot blonde on the other side of the bar, she's got everyone else giving her attention, so your idea better be pretty compelling if you stand any chance."

At least this is what I have found whilst finding a co-founder for TestPilot.

— Ivan

[David Caldwell (@roodave)]

Hey Pat and gents, I suspect I may have triggered this with my (held?)
post. I think you will find there are an increasing number of
opportunities to found startups in Australia as more incubators/
accelerators come on line, and that groups like this are I think the
natural place for them. Isn't that good news?
If nothing else, biz devs/ UX designers/ etc who are not technology-
wed are an opportunity to increase the number of Ruby champions.
I think, that unlike some of the previous posts that didn't even do
the group the service of explaining their experience, market etc., I
had adhered to the posting rules to the fullest extent relevant.
It's horses for courses really, some people want to just get paid,
others want to take ownership of something and venture on a startup,
as long as the relevant context of the "job" is there.
I'm sure you'll get some noise but I'm also sure the group subscribers
will be able to filter the crap pretty easily.
Cheers,
David.

[Matt Allen]

Hey Pat and RORO crew;

How about this:

Pin a "looking for a tech co-founder / startup looking for help" post to the top of the group like the jobs one. They should prefix their posts with something [startup] maybe? that way the people the really don't want to see them can filter them out. I suggest making a short one to start with and iterating on it as more things come by if the first attempt misses the mark (sound familiar?)

I personally think we should be happy that these things are coming across our desks, imagine those poor Java guys that never see them ;)

Cheers,

///atta
ma...@devlogic.com.au
0413 777 771

[Nicholas Faiz]

Wait, your cofounder is an attractive blonde?

[Warren Seen]

Hi David,

I appreciate the fact that your post was considerate of the group, so whilst I made the tongue in cheek comment about "bizdev bozos" discovering rails, I thought your post was actually a good example of how to do it. No offence intended towards yourself, more so to those who have posted before. :)

[Nicholas Faiz]

+ 1

Also, I think we should ask that they specify whether it's an equity only or equity plus wage/hourly rate (whether reduced or not) in the first line or even the topic's subject. 

Cheers,

Nicholas

[Daryl Manning]

I agree with Bayan on this one. While all of us have probably had our share of "build us a business on spec" offers, the fact is there *are* legitimate startups with solid prospects people might be interested in taking a roll of the dice with (hell, I need a designer, so I know what trying to find someone is like.).

+1 for guidelines though. I like our job posting ones, actually. Very similar to those.

On top of the equity/pay condition I'd also sugget a non-buzzword elevator pitch on what it's *actually* doing (ie. no "leveraging a unique niche in the social p2p market with immense and currently unrealized potential." etc... and yes, someone did actually come at me with that.).

ciao !

Daryl.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rails-oceania/-/K0bByZA0RrcJ.

[Ben Taylor]

Also, I think we should ask that they specify whether it's an equity only or equity plus wage/hourly rate (whether reduced or not) in the first line or even the topic's subject. 

I don't think that this is fair. Looking for a co-founder is kind of like looking for a life partner. You'll need to stick together thick and thin. You want everything to be about the idea, the persons experience, their skills and how well you work together. If it were any other job I'd agree, but co-founding is different. You're going to be a team and so working out this deal will be very personal.

This is also why I think looking for a technical co-founder this way is a bit of a folly; it's kind of like internet dating. I'd say either go with someone you've known for a long time, who you trust and have experience with. If no such person exists, then you're probably better off having an employer-employee relationship. 

 - Ben

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rails-oceania/-/K0bByZA0RrcJ.

[Warren Seen]

And this trust/experience factor is probably the single biggest reason that most of these approaches fail to appeal to many of us.

Hell, plenty of people have been involved in business with someone that they DID trust at the time, and still ended up getting burned.

[Michael Pearson]

I think a great start for somebody looking for a technical cofounder would be to read the following:

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html

and 

http://teddziuba.com/2011/07/the-craigslist-reverse-programmer-troll.html

They'll then better understand the common problems with these sorts of postings and will be able to write their pitches to overcome them. At least, that's the positive spin.

--
Michael Pearson

[Mark Wotton]

I guess the point is that you start with absolutely zero credibility as the default.

mark 

--
A UNIX signature isn't a return address, it's the ASCII equivalent of a
black velvet clown painting. It's a rectangle of carets surrounding a
quote from a literary giant of weeniedom like Heinlein or Dr. Who.
        -- Chris Maeda

[Leonard]

Or possibly as a more friendly link: http://alexeymk.com/finding-a-technical-co-founder-slides

In my opinion business people should try to learn to code for three reasons:

1. Your idea might actually be easy to implement and you actually get it done!

2. You may meet people who are good coders, have something in common, get to know them and have them become a co-founder.

3. At very worst you've learned a bit about programming which will make you a better manager/business type in the future.

[Lachlan Hardy]

The 4th reason, which I always provide to folks looking for "technical co-founders" is that it gives you some concept of the problem space; what you're actually looking for in a co-founder; and, most importantly, some credibility in their eyes. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rails-oceania/-/9cVk1PYBc7oJ.

[Pat Allan]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll either add a new post and pin it, or add to the pinned job post and outline some guidelines for co-founder/startup emails.

--
Pat