Throwing in the towel on your own business

[Mike Pence]

I have been successfully self-employed over the last few years -- the
success part of that equation has been the best over the last year.
But the need for stable income and health benefits has outweighed the
need to be independent for me.

It is great that Rails has become mainstream enough that options
abound. I am sure that I will be missing some of the freedom I have
enjoyed being completely on my own, but who knows what will pop up.

Has anyone else found the medical insurance issue to be a show stopper
for them? Are you one doctor visit and diagnosis away from financial
ruin? I can tell you firsthand that wishful thinking won't pay those
bills...

Best,
Mike Pence
http://mikepence.wordpress.com

[Myles Braithwaite]

Thats what makes Canada so great, I probably be looking for a job if we
didn't have government paid health care. I think thats why there are so
many more indepedent/freelance consultants in the I.T. Industry in Canada.

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[Tim Case]

Now this is an important question to discuss, I'm looking for health
insurance as a self employed person. The cost of insuring yourself
was so high that it's eaten heavily into your business?

What are people paying to insure themselves?

With whom?

[Michael Breen]

I got married ;-)

[Robert Fischer]

My wife and I both are self-employed, and we both get insurance for
about $250/month which gives us $1000 coverage, and once that's burnt
out, it's got a $5000 joint deductible, and then coverage up to some
millions.

Robert Fischer
IT Firefighter
Smokejumper Consulting

Michael Breen wrote:
> I got married ;-)
>

> On 6/7/07, *Tim Case* <tcra...@gmail.com <mailto:tcra...@gmail.com>>

[Michael D. Ivey]

On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:28 PM, Robert Fischer wrote:
> My wife and I both are self-employed, and we both get insurance for
> about $250/month which gives us $1000 coverage, and once that's burnt
> out, it's got a $5000 joint deductible, and then coverage up to some
> millions.

Not a bad deal. Care to share who your carrier is?

[Robert Fischer]

It's the "Simply Blue" plan through "Blue Cross/Blue Shield".

For the record, I have no commercial relationship with them beyond being
a customer, and I haven't had a problem yet so I can't speak to their
customer service.

Robert Fischer
IT Firefighter
Smokejumper Consulting

[Wes Gamble]

I'm paying $125/mo. with Unicare.
Single, 37 year old non smoker.
$2000 deductible/$30 Dr. visit copay
Prescriptions: Generic $10 Formulary $30 Non-formulary $50

As a W2 to most US companies - you'll pay $40 to $70/mo. for your part
of the health insurance, so this doesn't seem too bad.

I could get the monthly payment down under $100 if I increased the
deductible.

Wes

[Dave Myron]

> Single, 37 year old non smoker.
> $2000 deductible/$30 Dr. visit copay
> Prescriptions: Generic $10 Formulary $30 Non-formulary $50

I wonder what people with families are paying. I'm 28, married with a
1-year-old. We're lucky enough that my wife has the option of staying home
with our daughter (and future children, too, hopefully).

We pay $1200/month! ($500 deductible, which we should possibly consider
bumping up).

Definitely hurts.

Dave

[Jim Mulholland]

I have the same Unicare Plan as Wes on a family plan down here in
Houston.

I'm 33, married, non-smoker, with a 15-month old son and we pay $299 /
month for the 3 of us.

- Jim

[Damien McKenna]

On Jun 7, 2007, at 1:59 PM, Tim Case wrote:
> What are people paying to insure themselves?

I've got a plan with my day-job to cover my wife and I, then an
independent policy for our two kids as it works out to be $200
cheaper. Silly United Healthcare. Ironically, the independent
policy is with a subsidiary of United.

What I found, over the few days I researched it, is that almost all
of the independent policies include a co-insurance clause of 20%,
meaning that regardless of what they cover you're going to get stuck
with 20% of the bill. United was the only company that had plans
which covered 100% of the bill after the deductible, but their 100%
plan does not include a co-pay for doctor visits so you're going to
pay the deductible before you see any return on the investment.

Over the past year my family have gone through about $60,000 of
medical coverage - I had an appendectomy, my wife broke her thumb on
my head while playing tag (!!), and then an emergency c-section -
this would have bankrupt us and is ultimately why I will have a
regular day job for a long time to come.

--
Damien McKenna - Husband, father, geek.
dam...@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/

[Damien McKenna]

On Jun 7, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Wes Gamble wrote:
> I'm paying $125/mo. with Unicare.
> Single, 37 year old non smoker.
> $2000 deductible/$30 Dr. visit copay
> Prescriptions: Generic $10 Formulary $30 Non-formulary $50

Do you have to pay co-insurance on that?

[Jim Mulholland]

Has anybody signed up for a HSA health insurance account? I seriously
considered it before I decided on my Unicare PPO.

If we did not have a young kid who has frequent doctor visits and
frequent prescriptions, we probably would have done it.

For those of your who do not know, an HSA is a Health Savings
Account. When combined with a High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP), you
can sock away $2850/yr (single) or $56500/yr (married) into a tax-free
Health Savings Account which acts just like an IRA. The benefit is
that you can use your money completely tax-free for any medical
expenses including those not covered by insurance (such as contact
lenses or Lasik eye surgery for example). You money rolls over year
to year. If you never use the money, you can withdraw it when you
retire and are taxed just like a normal IRA account.

The HDHP is a normal indemnity type insurance with a deductible of at
least $1100 single or $2100 family with a relatively low monthly fee.
Those of you who are fairly young without kids should look into it.
If you sock away the maximum for 10 years or so and invest the money
in a good mutual fund or two that returns 10% annually, you will have
over $50k saved up for healthcare. The number jumps up to $100k after
15 years completely tax free for health care purposes again assuming a
10% ROI.

I still consider switching from time to time, but my wife rather we
stick with the traditional insurance.

Here is some info:

http://www.hsabank.com/hsainfo/hsa_overview.aspx

[Matthew Bass]

I'm single and pay around $80/month for a Blue Cross policy with a
high deductible.

Inability to get health insurance seems like a poor excuse to quit
freelancing... but that's just my opinion. I'm making nearly twice
what I made in my corporate job, and I'm doing something I'm really
passionate about. I understand that insurance can be MUCH more
expensive when you have a family, but in a corporate job you're
covering the benefits indirectly anyway by being paid a lower salary
than you would otherwise.

Now, if you're sick of the fluctuating income or having to do the
bookkeeping, that's another thing entirely! But if I ever stop
freelancing it certainly won't be because of health care costs.

Matthew

[MrKurt]

I have an HSA combined with a high deductible health plan from Blue
Cross/Blue Shield. It covers me, my wife, and our 4 year old.

We pay $180/mo for our plan, and max out our HSA every month for a
total of about $600/mo. That gives us what amounts of 100% coverage
for significantly less than it would cost us to buy a tricked out
health care plan. And of that $600/mo, there's the potential for us
to keep ~$400/mo or so, if nothing goes wrong and we manage our health
well.

I think it's really a fantastic way to handle insurance while the US
is in this sort of transitionary period (health care's going to
change, it's just not quite clear how).

> > > Dave- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Greg Newman]

MrKurt.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is an HSA and how does it work?  You've peaked my interest, especially since I'm shopping insurance right now.

Greg
http://www.carbon8.us
http://www.busyashell.com

[MrKurt]

Greg -

It's essentially an IRA that allows you to take untaxed distributions
for medical expenses. People with high deductible health plans
qualify for HSAs, and can contribute an amount equal to their
deductible every year (a max of like $2500/yr for individuals and
$5500/yr for families).

My particular HSA gives me a debit card and a checkbook I can use to
pay doctors, and I have a high deductible health plan through Blue
Cross Blue Shield to go with it. The interesting part of it is that I
get the BCBS negotiated rates with health care providers, so I pay
40-60% less than I'd pay if I weren't insured, and I pay that amount
pre-tax.

It's really a great deal, and "fits" how I believe health care should
be handled. We have health insurance for life altering events, and we
pay for our routine care and maintenance out of our own pocket. It's
much like car insurance, really, although the strange not-quite-free-
market version of health care we have in the US (which can be
attributed to wage freezes back in WWII, actually) leads to some
stupidly high prices for things.

-Kurt

On Jun 9, 8:55 pm, "Greg Newman" <gregoryjnew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> MrKurt.
> Forgive my ignorance, but what is an HSA and how does it work? You've
> peaked my interest, especially since I'm shopping insurance right now.
>

> Greghttp://www.carbon8.ushttp://www.busyashell.com

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Greg Newman]

Kurt-
I've never heard such a thing.  Who would I contact to get more information on this?  What happens to the money if you don't use it?

Way back, pre-self-employed, my employer had a wierd dental plan, that instead of the company and me paying into insurance for dental, the bills were paid by me and reimbursed by the company when I brought in the receipt.  It was based on a sliding scale, up to a certain amount got 100% reimbursement, then dropped to 80%, etc.  I don't remember the exact figures but it was through United Concordia back then.

A couple of years ago, I joined the local chamber to get cheaper insurance, which was a mistake because it wasn't any cheaper unless you have a bunch of employees.
I did talk with health guard (i think that was their name) and they quoted me 360 per month with a 5k deductible for my myself, wife and son.

-Greg

[Jamey]

This was very nearly a show-stopper for me ever thinking about working
for myself. My wife is diabetic and has her own private practice, so
we were relying on the health insurance from my day job. When I
started researching working for myself, I couldn't find anyone who
would insure us. Thankfully, Michigan has some kind of agreement with
Blue Cross where BC has to offer one certain plan to anyone,
regardless of pre-existing conditions. This made it possible for me
to work for myself full-time.

We pay through the nose for this plan, and it's not as good as the one
we had when I worked for a corporation, but it's better than nothing.
I definitely don't mean to get political here, but somebody, either
our national or state governments, or some kind of coalition of
businesses has got to do something about health care costs.

When I worked at a big company, I didn't really think about this much,
mainly because my contribution towards health insurance was taken out
of my check before I got it and my insurance pretty much covered 100%
of everything. Now that I'm self employed, paying three times as much
for coverage that isn't as good, I'm definitely paying attention to
this issue now.

One of the earlier posters mentioned that he had a bout $60,000 of
medical expenses last year and that if he was self-employed, this
would have bankrupted him. My policy has a $5,000 cap per year for
the whole family, so if you can get a policy with a cap, at least you
can limit your out-of-pocket expenses.

So, to answer the initial poster's question, yes, health insurance was
the biggest stumbling block to me starting my own business.

Jamey

[Jim Mulholland]

Greg,

I touched on HSA's in an earlier post in this thread also.

If you don't use the money, it continues to roll-over year-to-year.
If you do not use it at all, it acts just like a traditional IRA in
that you can use the money when you retire.

Here is a good resource to get more information:

http://www.hsabank.com/hsainfo/hsa_overview.aspx

- Jim

[Robert Fischer]

HSAs are great for a lot of people: just be sure to look into HSA
alternatives as well as the HSA plan. When my wife and I looked into
HSAs, we ended up doing better going with Simply Blue and just putting
the money against a capital business expense (specifically, the car
payment).

Robert Fischer
IT Firefighter
Smokejumper Consulting

[Jim Mulholland]

Speaking of HSAs, I forgot to mention that a law was passed this past
December that you are now allowed to roll-over $5650 from an IRA to an
HSA for your initial HSA funding if you would like. This puts off
retirement a small bit, but it gives you a cushion to start working
with in your HSA that is not coming straight out of your bank account.

[Mike Pence]

This has all been very useful to me. I realize now, after conferring with some friends, that I need to pursue insurance on my own, and not just assume that because we have some medical history that it is unobtainable. I need to continue to build on the success that I have had, but find work at a sustainable rate.

Best,
Mike Pence

[keeran]

Interesting discussion - certainly makes me thankful I'm doing my
thing in the UK.

I hope you're able to find a path that suits you Mike. There must be
specialist advisors out there for this sort of thing - probably all
earning a fortune I bet!

K