Newbie Questions

[Michael Caba]

Hello:

I live in Bend, Oregon and I am interested in setting up a radio meteor detection apparatus. I will take any advice offered; however, I need help with the following in particular.

1. What radio stations can I tune to?

2. What type of antenna will work with selected antenna? My antenna needs to be portable and low to the ground, i.e. below a 5 foot fence, due to restrictions in my neighborhood. Pictures or links to buy the antenna are appreciated.

3. Recommended RTL-SDR that will work with Spectrum Lab software. 

Thank you. 

Michael J. Caba

541-420-0385.

[bruce lamoreaux]

Hello Michael,

As you can see this google group is not very active.  I have found other online groups that are.  

Here is a good place to get some information. 

https://www.amsmeteors.org/ams-programs/radio-observing/

http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-meteor-scatter.htm

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/tag/meteor-scatter/#google_vignette

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-quick-start-guide/

I use a di-pole antenna fixed to the top of a 6' wood fence.  I have recorded many meteors with SDR using that.

Have fun.

Bruce Lamoreaux

[Michael Caba]

Bruce. This is quite helpful. I have been distracted by the tumultuous news events of the day, so please forgive me for not responding earlier. 

If you are able to answer a few questions, and I understand if you too are distracted, then I would like some help on finding a transmitting station that would work as well as an appropriate antenna. 

Please let me know if perhaps a phone call could be arranged so I could more precisely discuss the details. If so, what number should I call, and when. 

In short, I live in Bend, OR and have located an FM station in Pendleton, OR that is about 165 miles away from me. This station transmits at 103.5 MHz, and I cannot receive it on a normal car radio in Bend. But how do I know I can receive it for a brief second if a meteor occurs; in other words, how do I know if it will work. Further, what antenna should I use? 

Thanks for your help. 

Mike

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[Michael Caba]

Bruce:

Given the tumultuous news events of today, I have been distracted; and perhaps you have been too.  If so, please feel free to delay your response to this email.

In any case, I have checked out all the radio stations between 103.1 and 103.9 in Oregon and SE Washington. The enclosed map is the result of these efforts. 

It seems to me that the Pendelton station at 103.5 might be a good option. Do you concur that it is a good option. I realize you cannot guarantee anything, but I would appreciate your opinion.

Thank you.  

Telescope Guy

Dr. Michael J. Caba

541-420-0385

On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 2:12 PM bruce lamoreaux <bbla...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Stan Nelson]

Hi Mike,

Receiving meteor activity from distant FM stations is always tricky with stations that may be around a hundred miles away. I never found FM to be reliable due to enhanced propagation and would often persist for hours.   If you could find FM station that are 500 to 1000 miles away, with no others in that range, you could get good echoes. I suggest you take a look at high powered digital TV stations in the 50 to 70 MHz TV band. They do still make TV antennas for that range. 

I am using two low-cost Beelink PCs with Lopora QRSS Python based software successfully with a low-band TV antenna on  54.31 and 76.31 MHz DTV stations for logging meteor activity. I use a splitter to feed both RTL-SDR V3 sdrs. The receivers are set up for USB. The stations are 600 miles from me.

Another approach is monitoring WWV 25 MHz. Using a  SSB receiver and a modest antenna you can log the carrier and at night usually there are echoes. Solar activity can also show the sudden ionospheric disturbances, or SIDS. I use ARGO QrRSS software on the Windows PCs. 

Stan, KB5VL 

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From: radiom...@googlegroups.com <radiom...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Caba <michae...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2024 11:27 PM
To: radiom...@googlegroups.com <radiom...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/radiometeors/CAERtsn9%3DkJOVu%2Bcmw0sZ-X6JBcnzQ-ryio_E5a5U1Czp51n7KQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Michael Caba]

Thanks Stan. Do you think the setup, including the antenna, will work on an analogue TV station about 690 miles away for meteor detection?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BMKB3L47/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Dennis Condron]

Hello Mike

Preferably one should use an outside antenna due to house internal noise sources that seem to be abundant in most residentences. Some have even set up remote monitoring in non residential areas to negate this common problem.

Here is a good source for looking for nearby lower 2- 6 TV channels near or around your area. One that is reasonably close is KOBI at Medford, OR on channel 5 that runs much higher power that translators do - 6.35 KW.

Try looking around using this FCC link: TV Query Broadcast Station Search | Federal Communications Commission (fcc.gov)

Denny - K0LG -

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[Michael Caba]

Stan. I am interested in your reference to WWV 25MHz. What SSB, antenna would you recommend, and how would a person "log the carrier"? 

Thank you.

Mike 

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[ke7hr]

Mike,

You will need a SDR receiver.  One with a .5PPM oscillator is best (NESDR Smart is one I use).  I use SDR# software to watch the waterfall and a screen shot program to record the activity.  It is easy to page through the photos and see the detections.

Your distance from the transmitter needs to be between 500 and 2000 km.  It has to be "over the horizon" so you do not get a direct signal all the time, only when the ion trail refracts the signal down to you.

The digital television stations are a good source of signal.    I use channel 5 since there are none locally and two in the "observation zone" east of my.

I would suggest getting a SDR and downloading SDR# to play around with the radio first.  Get or build an external antenna and see what frequencies might be the best for you.

I made a presentation to a local astronomy club and would share that PDF file with you if you wish.  It is just over 11 megabytes.

Paul Jorgenson KE7HR

Phoenix AZ 

[Michael Caba]

Yes Paul, please send the pdf! 

Thank you. 

Mike

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[Michael Caba]

Hi Paul. I got your message. Will need to call back later. 

Thanks.

Mike

On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 1:49 PM ke7hr <ke...@cox.net> wrote:

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[Michael Caba]

Dennis:

Thank you very much! The FCC Link is great!

Mike

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[Dennis Condron]

Glad to help Michael

By entering other nearby search locations (states) there are likely several other channels 2 - 6 ATSC pilot carriers that could be usable for meteor returns that would be more suitable for your location. It is sort of a try and see approach as to which one(s) work best for you.

Stan Nelson's website Meteor Charts - RoswellMeteor has excellent near real time received examples from monitors in NM, AZ and Mexico and on occasion from IA when a major meteor shower event is occuring. These monitors are using ATSC pilot carriers for the signal source primarily located in the SW part of the US.

Meteor monitoring is a diverse and common activity in several parts of the world where there is a usable signal to do so that the meteor trail can reflect from. In the US WWV on 25 Mhz has been also usable to monitor for meteor return signatures, however the Doppler shift is less (~1/2) than when they are observed using a higher channel 2 - 6 frequency. 

Denny

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[Michael Caba]

Denny:

I used the FCC link you sent, and I checked out 12 western states. I think a good option to try is channel 2 in Las Vegas KVMY.  It is about 600+ miles from Bend, OR. Would you mind giving me your opinion as to the suitability of at least trying this station?

Also, there are other channel 2's but these for the most part are listed as LP, or low power. I would assume that these are not really good options and also they will not likely interfere with a regular DTV channel, correct?

Thanks again,

Mike Caba

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[Dennis Condron]

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Caba
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 5:03 PM
To: radiom...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

 

Denny:

 

I used the FCC link you sent, and I checked out 12 western states. I think a good option to try is channel 2 in Las Vegas KVMY.  It is about 600+ miles from Bend, OR. Would you mind giving me your opinion as to the suitability of at least trying this station?

 

Yes, I agree that the Las Vegas channel 2 station would be your preferred choice to use for meteor observations Michael. There are very few still remaining on that lower channel that also are in the higher power range emitted (27.7 kW). Many lower band channels (2-6) users have moved on to the UHF TV channels.

 

I believe the ones that are uploading to Stan Nelson’s website also are using the Las Vegas station pilot carrier. There are a few others transmitting at high power levels in the US such as North Platte, NE (16 kW) and Rapid City, SD (18 kW) that are western part of the continent.

 

Also, there are other channel 2's but these for the most part are listed as LP, or low power. I would assume that these are not really good options and also they will not likely interfere with a regular DTV channel, correct?

 

Although on occasion you might see one of those coming into your area when not using a directional antenna, they would be weaker compared to the Las Vegas emitter signal returns from meteors. In my case in IA, I find that either of the western NE or SD stations are usable since they have a slight difference in transmitting frequency makes it easy to determine where the received signal return area is coming from.

 

Denny  - K0LGI -

 

.

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[Michael Caba]

Thanks Denny. 

Mike

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[Stan Nelson]

Hi Mike,

I use the Las Vegas DTV 2 with good results at it’s about 700 miles from me. 

Stan

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[Michael Caba]

Great news. That one is going to be the one I aim for once I get geared up. 

Thanks for your help. 

Mike

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[Michael Caba]

Success!  Thanks for all your help. Lots of detections so far. I use Las Vegas DTV-2, whihc is about 600+ miles from me.