Richard Monjure's paper on GMDSS training
D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
Skype: djringjr
icq: 27380609
Mike Zbrozek
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Eric K. Weber
An interesting paper, but obviously from someone who has not been to sea recently.
The USCG has basically abandoned the MF/HF system and chosen not to support it… so obsessing about training
for it’s use is not productive.
The Inmarsat system had an over 12 hour down time last year in the Pacific…. The USCG deleted their notice to mariners on the outage from the record because they didn’t want to admit it happened.
Regards:
Eric Weber
Radio Officer
M/V Manulani WECH
From: radio-o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:radio-o...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:39 PM
To: Radio Officers &c
Subject: [Radio Officers, &c] Richard Monjure's paper on GMDSS training
Former List member (he resigned the list) Richard Monjure wanted to send the group his GMDSS paper.
D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
Mike Zbrozek
Mike Zbrozek
----- Original Message -----From: D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
John Davies
Hi All,
I read Richard's overview.
I don't think extra training in NBDP is going to achieve much. RTTY is
an out-dated mode and many countries don't keep a proper watch. The
technology is more than 30 years old and flakey, to say the least.
As for insisting trainers should have been at sea, what deck officer
is going to go ashore and teach GMDSS with the lousy wages?
All the GMDSS operators I have sailed with since the introduction of
GMDSS are fully conversant. This includes the so-called FOC ships I
have sailed on( = anything non USA???)
GMDSS operation is very easy and in itself is becoming redundant with
V-SAT, Fleet Broadband, Iridium and other means of communications. The
hours put in for training GMDSS are more than enough. Too long in
fact.
As for the old 500 KHz, that was not the be-all and end-all of
everything. 16 hours of the day you were off-watch and relied on very
poor Auto Alarms that heard nothing. I was involved in a rescue at sea
in 1985 and was off-watch. the auto-alarm did not go off even though
the alarm was sent from the ship in distress only 20 miles away! We
received the SOS on VHF channel 16. The auto alarm was checked out and
passed all tests!
Time to stop obsessing about ship's distress communications and move
into the 21st Century. Life at sea is certainly no more hazardous
now.
Enjoy the memories but don't try to bring it back. It will never
happen.
Jim Nardi
My experiences in going to sea as an REO for 25 years was just the opposite, but you're right in that it ain't coming back ...
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JF
> As for the old 500 KHz, that was not the be-all and end-all of
> everything. 16 hours of the day you were off-watch and relied on very
> poor Auto Alarms that heard nothing. I was involved in a rescue at sea
> in 1985 and was off-watch. the auto-alarm did not go off even though
> the alarm was sent from the ship in distress only 20 miles away! We
> received the SOS on VHF channel 16. The auto alarm was checked out and
> passed all tests!
shipping companies than one I worked for made unannounced
modifications to the receiver to cut down on alarms. I became
"educated" while crossing the Pacific a couple decades ago - I
happened to be in the radio room while off watch and heard loud and
clear the required series of 4-second long dashes (checked against
the clock) but the alarm didn't go off, leaving me puzzled because
the auto-alarm receiver always passed its self-test (this particular
event was not an actual emergency, evidently just someone playing
around, no ID, happened several times in that area). I tested it
again and while looking through its manual found a small penciled
margin note from some shore tech saying that sensitivity had been
reduced "as requested" (by whom, I wondered). So I sent a message to
the maintenance dept. of the company, and got a reply brazenly
stating that they had reduced its sensitivity because they did not
want our ship to hear 500 kHz alarms from vessels over 100 miles
away and so have to go out of its way more than that to make a rescue.
So there!. Season's greetings and merry humbug!
John F.
Peter VK4QC
Mike Zbrozek
Jim Nardi
Mike,
I don't make it a point to follow these things but, a few years back there was a case off the east coast of the US where there was some disaster and the CG after checking it's database of ships in the area tried to contact a Russian ship using all the GMDSS facilities, they never responded, probably they did'nt have the systems powered up or they were in-op. Never did see any follow-up.
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Kilobravo
----- Original Message -----From: Peter VK4QC
Mike Zbrozek
Eric K. Weber
Again your information is a few months out of date, the last USCG nbdp station NRV went off air a few months back… their incompetence had the system programed wrong for many months before they discontinued service…. I was likely the only user because of their possibly intentional act…. Then the last month before going off the air the sitor modem appeared to not be connected to anything…
In October when I got off the ship the only NBDP station I could connect to was TAH and I was unable to send an actual message due to registration issues. The Russians, China and Korea have NBDP stations but I have not been able to connect to them.
Regards:
Eric Weber
Radio Officer
M/V Manulani WECH
Mike Zbrozek
D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
Hello Eric and Group-I found that NRV was incompetant on 500 when my ship went there in 1993.The Opr didnt know what he was doing.
USCG always said the 500 kHz op was where they trained the new RM operator. The 500 kHz position was backed up by the CRM's position (Chief's position) - but to be fair to the Chief, he was cutting tapes for NX and WX broadcasts, fixing problems as they occurred and he was the point of contact for the station - so he was very busy. It was the administration of the USCG that overloaded him.
IF you cut down on his duties you'd find that you had a novice perhaps on 500 kHz WT but you had a superb operator backing him up copying every letter that was sent and transmitted and if needed he'd take over.
However this system failed the excellent operators at our USCG COMMSTA's many times.
I've written about system incompatibility - the USCG used domestic teletype machines - the BELL signal went to the USA symbol for ' and until you knew that you couldn't allert the local operator who was apt to be doing a dozen other things. I think you had to send FIGS J FIGS S to be sure that you were sending the BELL signal. USCG purchasing should have known the the teleprinters had to be INTERNATONAL standard, but they just put it out to bid as a "teleprinter". Who knows perhaps a civilian political hack job.
I tried to get the USCG to civilianize the radio and maritime safety jobs - like Canada did - and then we could have former R/O's like Mike Z on watch - or others who wanted to come ashore. But this didn't go through because it was already planned that there would be no more positions or jobs for a "radio" person either in USCG or afloat.
But the brass kept their jobs.
73
DR
Richard Monjure
Hello John,
Just some comments on your reply to my paper. Please understand it addresses the situation in U.S. GMDSS training, as the title implies.
1)
YOU SAID:
"I don't think extra training in NBDP is going to achieve much. RTTY is
an out-dated mode and many countries don't keep a proper watch. The
technology is more than 30 years old and flakey, to say the least."
MY COMMENT:
Training on NBDP will achieve competence on it. It does not matter that NBDP SITOR is older technology. It is robust and it works.
My interest in NBDP is in Distress, Urgent, and Safety communications. I do not care that it is no longer used for Routine priority traffic.
For example, my ship comes across a hazard to navigation. SOLAS says my ship must first notify ships in the area, then a shore authority. I can do my ship-to-ship notification via R/T (after an appropriate DSC alert) but it would be better to follow-on using NBDP.
If we had competent operators, this approach would result in an automatic print-out of the Safety priority notice on all ships within range.
It is much better to have a record copy than to try and understand a heavily accented voice of an operator who barely speaks English.
I have sailed as Radio Officer on U.S. GMDSS ships and I have actually done this, but I usually did it via R/T and NBDP.
2)
YOU SAID:
As for insisting trainers should have been at sea, what deck officer
is going to go ashore and teach GMDSS with the lousy wages?
MY COMMENT:
How can someone be competent to teach the material if they have NEVER ACTUALLY DONE IT?
What we have here in the U.S. are a unqualified instructors who do not know the material and can not teach. (They don't care, either.) Some of them have no radio background and are not even merchant seamen.
One instructor here in the U.S. is a retired Judge!
That's the situation in this Capitalistic nightmare known as the United States of America.
3)
YOU SAID:
All the GMDSS operators I have sailed with since the introduction of
GMDSS are fully conversant.
MY COMMENT:
I am happy to hear that, but the situation is different on U.S. Flag ships.
You would be in serious trouble if your F.O.C. ship needed help and the only ship in range is U.S. Flag. They will not hear your call for help. It is that bad. I have seen this with my own eyes. Believe it.
U.S. ships routinely sail with the GMDSS console SHUT DOWN. When I tried to correct this situation on board, the Mate told me "Fuck you, Sparks! We don't even need you on here. Now go to your stateroom and stay there. I can't be bothered with your radio bullshit!"
That's why I don't sail any longer.
4)
YOU SAID:
GMDSS operation is very easy and in itself is becoming redundant with
V-SAT, Fleet Broadband, Iridium and other means of communications.
MY COMMENT:
GMDSS operation is easy for those who understand it, impossible for those that are incompetent. This is why TRAINING is so important.
GMDSS is NOT redundant, it is the law. I hope you didn't make up your own laws as you saw fit when sailing.
Iridium is not reliable world wide. Fleet-77 is GMDSS approved.
What you are forgetting (I assume you know) is that LES's and CRS's are required to have direct links to RCC's. That's the basic idea of the ship-to-shore approach of GMDSS. Satellite systems must provide call prioritization and pre-emption in both directions, supporting all message priorites.
All the systems you mention are satellite based. GMDSS included HF DSC, with R/T and NBDP follow-on as a back-up to satellite for a reason. It is independent from the Inmarsat system and that is what is needed for a back-up.
Of course there is the EPIRB, but it does not provide for two-way communication. It's designed primarily for use from life-craft.
5)
YOU SAID:
The hours put in for training GMDSS are more than enough. Too long in
fact.
MY COMMENT:
When I taught GMDSS in the U.S., I taught BOTH the U.S. course and MCA course. I taught students from over 20 countries. They all told me the same thing… "There isn't enough time for all this!"
6)
YOU SAID:
As for the old 500 KHz, that was not the be-all and end-all of
everything.
MY COMMENT:
I agree and I am NOT a person who thinks the old system should come back. GMDSS today has problems, largely from operator incompetence both on board and ashore. NO ONE CARES. The only man that did, the Radio Officer, was thrown off the ship.
7)
YOU SAID:
I was involved in a rescue at sea in 1985 and was off-watch. the auto-alarm did not go off even though the alarm was sent from the ship in distress only 20 miles away! We received the SOS on VHF channel 16. The auto alarm was checked out and passed all tests!
MY COMMENT:
Did you ever confirm that a signal was sent on 500 kc/s? Was the AA signal even sent?
8)
YOU SAID:
Time to stop obsessing about ship's distress communications and move
into the 21st Century. Life at sea is certainly no more hazardous
now.
MY COMMENT:
I AM ASTOUNDED BY YOUR COMMENT! I have to wonder when a Radio Officer and sea-man says something like "stop obsessing about ship's distress communication…" It's begs the question - "Are you out of your mind?"
Just what did you miss? Well, perhaps I can fill in the gap.
International/National Regulations require radio equipment NOT so you can send a routine message home. Radio is required specifically so that ships can communicate in an EMERGENCY.
This is all not only for your own ships safety, but for the safety of every ship. That's why they call it the "Safety of Life at Sea" Convention.
9)
YOU SAID:
Enjoy the memories but don't try to bring it back. It will never
happen.
MY COMMENT:
I am NOT trying to bring back anything. The fact is that GMDSS is the LAW of the world. It has several different systems/elements and they are all there for a REASON.
You can't go out there and do whatever you feel is best. You have to become competent with GMDSS and use it as designed. That means knowing NBDP, even if you don't like it. That means staying competent.
I know we don't have a ship sinking every day, thank goodness. Not being prepared for an emergency, because you have your own opinions against GMDSS, is no excuse.
73,
Rich Monjure
United States