Laudato si.

[Saral Sarkar]

24.04.2025

somewhere in the long appendage to the contribution of Christine Dann, I read that  Pope Francis was presented a new, fully electrical Popemobile  in the Vatican in December 2024.
    Whoever told Ms. Dann that using a fully electrical car is an ecological deed? All electrical cars are made of metals, all metals are extracted with fossil oil or coal energy, and in all car factories, at least till now, conventional electrical or fossil fuel energy is used. So what is ecological about that?
 Moreover, in many parts of the world local people are demonstrating against extractivism, opposing mining projects.
     In 1982, when I came to Germany, many Germans had completely given up (at least in cities) cars and were using their feet or,  if the situation needed, used a bicycle. But then the capitalists introduced electrical cars -- a pseudo-ecological instrument. It is not so easy / or so cheap to lead an ecological life.

With best wishes
Saral
    

[Helena Paul]

Re cars not the pope –

 

Another interesting thing about electric cars of course is the size and weight of the ones used here in the UK – often called Sports Utility Vehicles for some reason – quite scary if you’re a pedestrian like me. And of course the weight means the driver feels completely safe although he is potentially dangerous to others. But above all it means they consume a huge amount of energy for charging plus the weight of their immense batteries packed with destructively mined and stolen minerals. And like yankee lorries, they are designed increasingly so that the front of the car looks like a monster and the lights are blinding. What idiots we humans are!

Or as Shakespeare says:

Oh lord what fools we mortals be!

 

Laudato no!

 

Helena

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[Helena Paul]

The quote from Shalespeare should have read:

Oh lord what fools these mortals be!

Because it is Puck speaking from Midsummer Night’s Dream...

Helena

 

From: <radical_ecolog...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Saral Sarkar <saral...@t-online.de>
Date: Thursday 24 April 2025 at 10:29
To: "Radical Eco. Democr. list (India)" <radical_ecolog...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [REDlistserve] Laudato si.

 

24.04.2025

    

--

[Vasishth, Ashwani]

What happens when two oppositional choices are such that each is supportable, but only with entirely different boundary conditions?  

For instance, which is “environmentally better?”   EVs or ICUs?  And I say to you, simply Yes….!?!?

And then you find that with one set of contexts, EVs are “better.”  While in a different set of contexts, ICUs are?

But….you cannot do an apples to apples comparison….!   

No CPA will ever help you choose.  When mechanistic cost-benefit analysis actually is not helpful, then you have no fallback but discernment, judgement, good sense!

Worse, there can be no one “correct answer.”

Edward de Bono, Lateral Thinking (1970), argued that Yes and No are rarely the only options.  He proposed, Po—neither Yes, nor No.

Welcome to the really interesting world of “wicked problems.”  See <https://systemsthinkingalliance.org/wicked-problems/>

This is the root source of what we glibly call holistic or systems thinking….!

If we cannot let go of binary thinking (yes or no, right and wrong), if you feel that every conundrum must have a single “best” solution, then stay comfortably (and erroneously) in what Ruben Nelson calls the MTI (Modern techno-industrial culture).

<https://www.sustainable.soltechdesigns.com/images/rn/>

-- 
    Ashwani
       Vasishth      
Professor of Sustainability
vasi...@ramapo.edu         
(323) 206-1858 (cell phone)
                  
http://phobos.ramapo.edu/~vasishth

You can ALWAYS set up an Appointment with me, without negotiation, seven days a week, at: 

calendly.com/vasishth/google-meet-30

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[Christine Dann]

Yes, important to get one's quotes right, Helena! 🙂 Also their attribution - and I certainly did not supply the 'long appendage' which mentions Francis getting an electric pope-mobile. 

I believe that was from Bloomberg. Which would think they are a good thing. I do not.

Take care, everyone!

Christine

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