Re: New WSBA Results Coordinator

[Scott Willson]

Hey Rob,

I'm not sure I've got a firm grasp of everything you mention here, sorry! But a couple things:

As you mention, the WSBA site export does include the riders' road categories. And you can include a per-result "category" column when importing results.

As it stands now, though, the Rider Rankings look at the race's category, not the result's category. We could calculate additional standings based on the result's category—the information is all there—but it's a different sort of calculation from the way the Rider Rankings work now. So it's a fair amount of new work.

I'm going to shoot this over to the Google Group. I'd like to have a more inclusive conversations about these sort of things, since they usually are of interest to more than just the WSBA or OBRA.

Scott

On Apr 21, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Rob Whitacre wrote:

As David and I discussed last week if we want each Masters group to have their own ranking system and the same for each senior and junior category then the each riders category must be known at registration.  When I get the data from registration it's a pass through set-up through the FinishLynx, i.e., the only thing I do to the data is assign a placing for each rider, the rest of their data stays the same.  For many of the races so far this year I know the category of each rider (masters aren't broken up as much) but I have to remove that data when I was sending David the results info for the website, i.e., there wasn't a column set-up for category. 

 

My feeling with all of this is if we want to have the rider ranking system then the category of each rider participating in ALL WSBA race MUST be known at registration.  Masters & Junior fields must be broken up.  I've been able to use the WSBA database to figure out whose a 4 & a 5 in a 4/5 race and the same in a women 1/2/3 race and men pro/1/2 races.  Masters are a different story.  Juniors are actually easy because our Junior A, B, C, D system corresponds with USAC's age brackets.  But, Masters are a whole other ball game.  AND, at many of our races we don't have the customary Master A, B, C, D races. 

 

The only way, I feel, this process is going to be easy and efficient is if categories are known for each and every rider.  By doing that we can score and produce results for any combination of categories.  And, when the results are uploaded to WSBA the Masters will be broken up correctly. 

 

Rob

 

On 4/21/09, Scott Willson <sc...@butlerpress.com> wrote:

On Apr 20, 2009, at 9:04 AM, David Visintainer wrote:

 Also, with the categories that are combined, I am somewhat confused on how the results are calculated for the WSBA rankings.  Ryan recently corrected the results for the cat 4/cat 5 men where the results for the Mason Lake series had these categories separate and were able to go into the rankings. With the master categories that tend to be combined, with the rankings, do the results get uploaded to the correct ranking category. For example, a rider is a “Master A Men” and  raced in a combined field of Master A/B Men and won this race. When the results are uploaded in a combined field, will the system be able to know the rider is a Master A? Or do we need to separate all the races where this occurs? Please let us know. We are trying to avoid having to go back into the results to separate combined fields to make sure the rider rankings are properly calculated.

 

The system looks at the race's category, not the racer's category nor the category listed in the result. So if you want to break out the results for the Rider Rankings, you need separate standings.

 One other item that came up. If a promoter uses their own race numbers, do the numbers need to be removed when the results get uploaded?

It's probably best to do that. You can set a Number Issuer for the event, and then any new numbers will be associated with that event, not the WSBA. Unfortunately, there's no UI to create Number Issuers, so Ryan or I need to do that for you in the database or in the console.

 

The race numbers have been messy and unsatisfactory. We do want to capture the numbers so that we can search for riders later. But we end up with all sorts of numbers in the database, and have a hard time telling which ones are truly WSBA or OBRA numbers. I think the best thing will be to still include and save numbers from results, but not make them "official" WSBA numbers. Which would mean dropping the whole Number Issuers deal, and just having a flag for "official WSBA/OBRA number." Does that make sense?

 

Scott

[Phil Miller]

Quick note on Juniors - we need to know in a given Junior race how many riders are Junior 5 v. Junior 4, etc.  For a Junior 4 to upgrade, what matters is the participation levels of other Junior 4 riders - the 5's don't count.  Methinks this may not be tracked right now, although I may be mistaken.  Huge issue for Juniors needing upgrades for nationals.

 

 - Phil

 

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From: racing-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:racing-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Willson
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:58 PM
To: racing-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New WSBA Results Coordinator

[Scott Willson]

It depends on how the data is entered in the "Road Category" field. We usually have the rider's age, too, so we can figure out who is a Junior.

Right now, you can put any text in any category field. That's convenient for just posting results onto a website. But it makes it hard to do things like the BAR, the Rider Rankings, and calculating upgrade points.

"Canonical categories" is on my "big backend things to do" list. The idea is that the application would translate "Cat 3 women," "W3", and "Senior Wmn 3" all into "Category 3 Women." And understand that it includes Senior-age, Cat 3-ability, Women-gender.

Scitt

[Phil Miller]

Given some recent requests from Junior coaches, getting the numeric category of a Junior is very important.

 

 - Phil

 

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From: racing-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:racing-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Willson

Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:27 AM

To: racing-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New WSBA Results Coordinator