rabbit bonding problem?

[loafbunny]

Hello, I've a question for anyone who owns two or more rabbits:

My first bunny (Edward Gregory, neutered two year-old male) was
introduced to our newly adopted bunny (Brooke, 4-5 year-old spayed
female) three weeks ago. After two weeks of car rides and sharing
veggies, initial chases and territorial fits have begun to die down,
and they are now able to roam in the same area without attacking each
other.

Edward seems more interested in Brooke - rather than the other way
around - and tries to groom her whenever she's near. He looks pretty
aggressive with his grooming, almost nibbling her face and ears; the
former she does not mind, but she freaks out and bolts when Edward
tries sticking his face INTO her ears (don't think I'd appreciate a
tongue in my ear either).

Can this be interpreted as attempting to build friendship (be it
Edward is a little socially...weird), or is this something else? I
know that rabbit bonding can take months, but it seems that we've hit
a stand-still with bonding. Any suggestions? Thank you!

[cottontail]

Hi loafbunny, and welcome =:)
It sounds like the bonding of your two bunnies are going okay. At
least they're not at each other anymore, right? Maybe Brooke has a
sensitive ear? I'd check her ears to see there's nothing wrong with
them, just in case. Our buns lick each other's face, ears and eyes,
too. And they seem to love it. Some bunnies are bit obsessive in
grooming sometimes though. hmm... Do they lie down next to each other?
Can you pet them both side by side (or face to face)? I used to do
that almost every evening for several months with our Joey when Ruby
came on board. But they became the best buddies. I'm sure Edward and
Brooke will be, too :) Have you tried taking them to your friend's
place? That sometimes works like a charm. Well, best of luck.

T.

[Ros]

Hi Loafbunny welcome to the group

Edward does seem very intense with his friendship doesn't he? I must
say I haven't experienced anything like that but have heard of other
cases where one bondmate has nibbled and licked fur from the other.
Brooke's reaction makes me wonder if he's nipping rather than
nibbling.

How long is it since he was neutered? It could be that he still has
some testosterone going round his system making him behave like this.

However since he's the one doing the grooming rather than demanding to
be groomed, it doesn't seem as if he's trying to be dominant.

Has he drawn blood at all?

Ros

[loafbunny]

Thank you for your responses!

Edward was neutered a year and a half ago, but even before Brooke he
would nudge and chin everything and everyone in the household. No
blood drawn from Brooke, thank goodness! Brooke doesn't look to have
any ear infections or mites, and I check her rigorously for bites
after every play session with Edward. She lays her head down and
hunkers when Edward grooms her, and he can be at it for more fifteen
minutes without either of them flinching (so long as Edward doesn't
stick his nose in her ears). Regardless, they don't seem to lie next
to each other, even with their cages side by side; Edward only starts
grooming her when they're both running around the house and happen to
collide into each other ;)

They started getting along when I took them to visit my parents' place
over a long weekend - perhaps we should visit more often! Either way,
I'm not sure if stressing them with car rides would help as Edward is
an anxious fellow and I'm worried he'll begin to associate negative
events with Brooke. I'll definitely try petting them side by side, as
they both love the attention :) Any other suggestions are welcome!
Thanks again :D

[cottontail]

Sounds like Brooke is happy to get Edward's attention (and grooming
service) as long as he doesn't go into her ears. I don't know how you
can prevent him from doing that though...

One thing they love is dinner dates! Can they share a bowl of rolled
oats? Most rabbits love rolled oats, so you could try that. But I
would only give them a couple of tablespoonfuls at a time. I'd
encourage them to eat together when they're out together. That would
be a very positive experience for both bunnies :) And they'll
acknowledge you're the boss-bunny who have food to offer, and they'll
be friendly to you. I'd say it's a win-win :E)

[Ros]

I agree - it sounds promising to me.

A few things you could try are

- swapping over litter trays (don't clean them too vigorously!) That
way odours get mingled.

- put them together in an empty bath. The sides and bottom are
slippery so they'll have to lean against one another for support.
That way they begin to feel safe when they touch each other.

- use a damp towel to rub each of them in turn (back and forward
between them both). The scents mingle on the towel and get rubbed off
onto each bun. When they groom themselves they get used to that
combined aroma till it seems like normal.

- use a damp had to stroke each in turn. Same effect as the towel.

- have a neutral area (preferably a bathroom with a tiled (slippery)
floor if you can manage it - again they lean on each other for
support) for them to be let loose in. Nobunny has dominance in a
neutral area so there won't be turf wars.

My Cinnamon is very odd about having her ears touched - by me!
They've been checked by the vet numerous times and they're fine, but
she hates me touching them. It's fine if her husbun Nutmeg touches or
licks them, but not me! So some bunnies are just odd about their ears
and it could be the same with your Brooke, except that it's Edward she
finds irritating round her ears. I should add here that I only ever
would touch her ears very gently. Nothing unpleasant at all. She
just plain dislikes it. Runs off shaking her head. I can touch her
**anywhere** else. No problem at all. I got her aged 13 weeks -
she's 5 now, and I'm as sure as I can be that nobody ever did anything
awful to her ears...she simply doesn't like having them touched.

Idiosyncratic or what?

[cottontail]

Those are some great tips, Ros :)

Some buns have issues with their ears, I guess...
Speaking of bunny ears, I clean our Daisy's right ear every week ever
since she broke her right tibia. She objected at first, but now she
knows I'm helping her, so she doesn't wiggle away. Here's a post I
made in my Yahoo 360 page.
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-HBKil6Y5dLb_CRjqME9B6tsReEM-?cq=1&p=56

haha... "husbun" cute!

[Sailorbunny]

hi Loafbunny..welcome! (appologies for my lateness here!)

"put them together in an empty bath. The sides and bottom are
slippery so they'll have to lean against one another for support.

That way they begin to feel safe when they touch each other."...this
really is the most valuable
advice i recieved when i was bonding my buns, Dinky and Thumper.
when i brought thumpy home a little earlier in the year, dinks made it
clear he did NOT like her!..oh boy, i had such
a difficult time..thumpy was seperated from dinks cos he kept nipping
her, clawing her and chasing her.

but i tried the bathtub suggestion (which is neutral territory) and it
worked a treat!..since then dinks and thumps lie next to each other
and snuggle..thumpy washes dinks (though he doesnt return the
complement, hehe!.)

i wish i could suggest something about the ear nibbling issue
hun..maybe it is something edward will grow out of in time?.

anyway, good luck and best wishes!! ;)

On Nov 20, 5:16 am, cottontail <hop...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Those are some great tips, Ros :)
>
> Some buns have issues with their ears, I guess...
> Speaking of bunny ears, I clean our Daisy's right ear every week ever
> since she broke her right tibia. She objected at first, but now she
> knows I'm helping her, so she doesn't wiggle away. Here's a post I

> made in my Yahoo 360 page.http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-HBKil6Y5dLb_CRjqME9B6tsReEM-?cq=1&p=56

> > > > > > a stand-still with bonding. Any suggestions? Thank you!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[loafbunny]

A quick update: Brooke and Edward still get along, even after Edward
went to see the vet (diagnosis: calcium carbonate crystals from his
addiction to unhealthy treats! From now on its fresh veggies and hay
with limited pellets for Mr. Edward Gregory). The two are still
working out territory issues, but I'll be taking them to my parents'
again this coming weekend to try and get them closer. They still
occasionally chase each other, but they do visit each others' cages to
say hello! Here's to hoping they'll be more chummy over the next few
weeks :S

Thanks again for the help and support :D

[Ros]

Hi Loafbunny

I was discussing this sort of thing with a friend just last week. One
of her buns has bladder sludge. She had found something by Dana
Krempels that said (if I remember correctly) to give lots of drinks
but also to (very carefully!!!) express the bladder having first
jiggled the bunny about to get the crystals to mix in with the urine.
Otherwise you'd express urine without the crystals and nothing would
be any better.

I know sometimes vets will do a bladder flush but the problem does re-
occur because really it's a metabolism problem. Buns do need calcium
for bones and teeth - probably greater proportions for bodyweight than
we do because of their teeth growing continuously - but some of them
aren't able to properly metabolise it into bones and teeth. That's
when it ends up in the bladder as sludge, or worse, stones.

It isn't possible to metabolise dietary calcium (for any of us!)
without certain other chemicals being present to act as catalysts.
Those include magnesium, potassium, phosphorus and Vitamin D3. All of
those can be found in nuts and seeds, which also contain essential
fatty acids. However there is also the fattening effect to be
considered.

To try to avoid the problems of bladder sludge, I feed the Varmints a
quarter walnut each per day, 2 almonds each per week and (Nutmeg only
because Cinnamon won't eat them) 2 pumpkin seeds a week. Each of them
also gets 2 dried cranberries per night which helps keep the bladder
emptying. And I've just bought a bag of fresh cranberries, having
found that Cinnamon will also eat them that way, so a couple of those
are added to supper as well.

I hope some of these suggestions might be helpful to Edward.

Ros

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http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk
National Helpline 0870 046 5249
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[cottontail]

Your nuts/seeds supplement sounds like a good one, Ros :)

Let me just make sure to other bunny parents that nuts and seeds
contain a lot of fat, and too much of them can cause fatty liver
disease in rabbits - which can be fatal. Rabbits can't metabolize fat
like humans. So only give as little as Ros suggests, and I wouldn't
give them any if your bunny is overweight. Good quality rabbit food
also contains necessary minerals like magnesium, potassium,
phosphorus, etc. For most healthy rabbits, that's probably good
enough, imho.

[loafbunny]

THEY FLOPPED TOGETHER! YAY! :D
Edward still likes to groom Brooke's ears without her approval, but
they both act happier now that they have a small door access to each
other's quarters...they usually spend most of their time in one cage
together. And the binkies~! I'd never seen either of them do so many
IN their cages (they're usually jumping around like dolphins when
they're roaming the flat).
Thanks again for all of your helpful suggestions :) I think they
really bonded over the 'pile o' veggies' at dinner every night