unrecoverable bsod after installing win7 vm and installing windows tools

[behin...@gmail.com]

greetings qubes-users,

first time i've posted anything on a google group in, well, ever.

i've got an install of qubes R2 up and working. i used a cd/dvd of win7 professional (build date 09/26/14) to install win7 to an hvm template. the install goes fine and the win7 vm seems to work fine until i attempt to start it with the install windows tools option, i.e. "qvm-start win7-x64-template --install-windows-tools". at this point, the startup of the win7 vm fails and gives a bsod. this has happened twice and i am not keen on repeatedly installing windows only to have it fail again.

the only useful data i can glean from the attempted recovery on restart is that it appears to have corrupted the registry.

i had tried to copy the image files in /var/lib/qubes/vm-templates to prevent having to reinstall windows again, but this did not work. input on how to keep a working copy of this vm around so that i can avoid reinstalling again would be welcome.

any clues about how to solve this or work around it are welcome. seems that a win7 vm is of limited utility without templates.

regards,
jake

[Rafał Wojdyła]

On 2015-01-08 19:55, behin...@gmail.com wrote:
> greetings qubes-users,
>
> first time i've posted anything on a google group in, well, ever.
>
> i've got an install of qubes R2 up and working. i used a cd/dvd of win7 professional (build date 09/26/14) to install win7 to an hvm template. the install goes fine and the win7 vm seems to work fine until i attempt to start it with the install windows tools option, i.e. "qvm-start win7-x64-template --install-windows-tools". at this point, the startup of the win7 vm fails and gives a bsod. this has happened twice and i am not keen on repeatedly installing windows only to have it fail again.
>

Did the BSOD happen immediately on the first reboot after the tools
installation? This seems like a problem with accessing boot device
(failed Xen PV drivers installation?) or generally incomplete installation.

> the only useful data i can glean from the attempted recovery on restart is that it appears to have corrupted the registry.
>

One reason I can think of that could maybe result in corrupted registry
is some serious failure during the process of moving user profiles to
the private disk. That process tries to restore everything to the
initial state on errors so it's unlikely. Moving user profiles happens
only after at least one successful boot however. Please see
https://wiki.qubes-os.org/wiki/WindowsTools for more detailed
instructions on troubleshooting.

> i had tried to copy the image files in /var/lib/qubes/vm-templates to prevent having to reinstall windows again, but this did not work. input on how to keep a working copy of this vm around so that i can avoid reinstalling again would be welcome.
>

Copying disk images won't do anything after the fact since files are
already changed. You can most likely access the VM in safe mode (see the
link above) and at least access logs than can be useful for us.

> any clues about how to solve this or work around it are welcome. seems that a win7 vm is of limited utility without templates.
>
> regards,
> jake
>

--
Rafał Wojdyła
Qubes Tools for Windows developer

[Jake]

On 01/09/15 04:37, Rafał Wojdyła wrote:
> On 2015-01-08 19:55, behin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> greetings qubes-users,
>>
>> first time i've posted anything on a google group in, well, ever.
>>
>> i've got an install of qubes R2 up and working. i used a cd/dvd of win7 professional (build date 09/26/14) to install win7 to an hvm template. the install goes fine and the win7 vm seems to work fine until i attempt to start it with the install windows tools option, i.e. "qvm-start win7-x64-template --install-windows-tools". at this point, the startup of the win7 vm fails and gives a bsod. this has happened twice and i am not keen on repeatedly installing windows only to have it fail again.
>>
> Did the BSOD happen immediately on the first reboot after the tools
> installation? This seems like a problem with accessing boot device
> (failed Xen PV drivers installation?) or generally incomplete installation.

the bsod occurred after completing the install of win7 successfully, and
during the first boot where the windows tools install was attempted,
i.e. (shutdown working, freshly installed win7 vm) --> (issue "qvm-start
win7-x64 --install-windows-tools") --> (bsod before win7 boot completes).

not clear on how to check whether an incomplete install has occurred.

>> the only useful data i can glean from the attempted recovery on restart is that it appears to have corrupted the registry.
>>
> One reason I can think of that could maybe result in corrupted registry
> is some serious failure during the process of moving user profiles to
> the private disk. That process tries to restore everything to the
> initial state on errors so it's unlikely. Moving user profiles happens
> only after at least one successful boot however. Please see
> https://wiki.qubes-os.org/wiki/WindowsTools for more detailed
> instructions on troubleshooting.

after reading the windows tools link you provided below, it may be
relevant to note that i did not manually create a new FS on that 2 GB
partition that corresponds to private.img. however, it seems this should
not be an issue based on "This disk will be initialized/formatted
automatically if needed.".

i will follow the troubleshooting instructions and see if i can get my
hands further debug info later today.

[Jake]

i've made another attempt to get useful debug information for this win7
issue to almost no avail. further information below inline.

i read through the link you supplied carefully and made an effort to get
all the relevant information.

this particular bsod appears to be one of the nastier ones out there
"Bug Check 0x74: BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG_INFO". all attempts at booting into
windows, including safe mode, have failed and windows claims to be
unable to repair itself. here are some details related to the crash:

Problem Event Name StartupRepairOffline
Problem Signature 01 6.1.7600.16385
Problem Signature 02 6.1.7600.16385
Problem Signature 03 unknown
Problem Signature 04 -1
Problem Signature 05 AutoFailover
Problem Signature 06 2
Problem Signature 07 CorruptRegistry
OS Version 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID 1033

diagnosis and repair details

Root cause found:
Bugcheck 74. Parameters = 0x2,
0xfffff88003ba2b20,0x2,0xffffffffc000009a. Registry is corrupt.

i did find something that may be useful for diagnosing this problem
after getting this information. i reinstalled win7 for the 3rd time and
figured i could burn an emergency recovery disk (ERD) from a new working
vm and use that to repair the registry if it was corrupted again. once
the system was installed properly, i shut it down and restarted with the
cdrom attached "qvm-start win7-x64 --cdrom=/dev/cdrom". apparently,
passing the cdrom device to the vm was enough to trigger the same bsod,
suggesting that attaching _any_ cdrom, whether a device or an iso,
causes the bsod.

any advice is welcome. i'd love to ditch win7 here and just keep moving,
but openoffice doesn't do pivot tables quite right and it renders legal
documents all wacky relative to word.

[mihaig...@gmail.com]

"Last known good config" does not work either? can also try "vga mode"
If you are forced to install again from scratch, maybe creating a restore point while the system still works will let you go back without having to reinstall all over again. Make sure your VM starts up sucessfully at least a couple of times before installing Qubes Tools again and, as already stated, do not check the move profile option in QWT (move your profile manually, it is an empty one anyway)

[Lennart Grabowski]

I get the exact same error trying to attach any(!) cd-rom...
by using --debug starting the vm and pressing F8 I am able to start win7 in failsafe, if no cd-rom is attached, but the vm itself stays corrupted after trying to attach a cd-rom once and cannot be started normally ever again without causing the BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG BSoD.

Win7 was downloaded under the MS DreamSpark license for education purposes was installed from an USB-device attached to dom0. I tried keeping a cd-rom attached at all time, starting the vm and I am able to create a user and set a PW (tried with or without PW), and if there is a cd-rom attached at all times I am able to boot one more time, before the BSoD is triggered.

2 failed attempts:

I created a Win7-template, set it up completely and could boot up multiple times without cd-rom attached. Then I tried to install the qubes-tools in a derivated App-VM. As before, the App-VM got the BSoD and even the Template-VM has been corrupted.

The other failed attempt: I set up Win7 after installation and booted multiple times. Then I created a restore point and after attaching a cd-rom and BSoD'ing the VM I tried to restore by --debug+F8. The Restore-Tool runs smoothly but requires a reboot. After the VM shuts itself down I restart it without --debug. But the restore starts from the beginning and there is no way around it.

After work I can dump my logs ...

[Lennart Grabowski]

I got around it with some voodoo:
1. Copied the Win.img to dom0 Downloads

2. Re-attached the cd-rom:"dom0/Downloads" every time the set-up required a reboot

3. After installing I rebooted the WindowsHVM a few times until everything was set-up

4. Restarted qubes completely

5. Started the WinVM with qubes-tools attached

6. Done the testdriver-accept-sign-thing (you get what i mean)

7. Before restarting I copied the .exe from cd-rom to desktop

8. Rebooted without any cd-rom attached

9. Installed Qubes-Tools from Desktop

10. rebooted a few times

I don't know, which part is essential and which part voodoo (maybe the pros can answer), but this seems to work for me...

[Gorka Alonso]

El miércoles, 14 de enero de 2015, 17:16:52 (UTC+1), Lennart Grabowski escribió:

Am Montag, 12. Januar 2015 15:44:46 UTC+1 schrieb Lennart Grabowski:

I get the exact same error trying to attach any(!) cd-rom...
by using --debug starting the vm and pressing F8 I am able to start win7 in failsafe, if no cd-rom is attached, but the vm itself stays corrupted after trying to attach a cd-rom once and cannot be started normally ever again without causing the BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG BSoD.

Win7 was downloaded under the MS DreamSpark license for education purposes was installed from an USB-device attached to dom0. I tried keeping a cd-rom attached at all time, starting the vm and I am able to create a user and set a PW (tried with or without PW), and if there is a cd-rom attached at all times I am able to boot one more time, before the BSoD is triggered.

2 failed attempts:

I created a Win7-template, set it up completely and could boot up multiple times without cd-rom attached. Then I tried to install the qubes-tools in a derivated App-VM. As before, the App-VM got the BSoD and even the Template-VM has been corrupted.

The other failed attempt: I set up Win7 after installation and booted multiple times. Then I created a restore point and after attaching a cd-rom and BSoD'ing the VM I tried to restore by --debug+F8. The Restore-Tool runs smoothly but requires a reboot. After the VM shuts itself down I restart it without --debug. But the restore starts from the beginning and there is no way around it.

After work I can dump my logs ...

 

I got around it with some voodoo:
1. Copied the Win.img to dom0 Downloads

2. Re-attached the cd-rom:"dom0/Downloads" every time the set-up required a reboot

3. After installing I rebooted the WindowsHVM a few times until everything was set-up

4. Restarted qubes completely

5. Started the WinVM with qubes-tools attached

6. Done the testdriver-accept-sign-thing (you get what i mean)

7. Before restarting I copied the .exe from cd-rom to desktop

8. Rebooted without any cd-rom attached

9. Installed Qubes-Tools from Desktop

10. rebooted a few times

I don't know, which part is essential and which part voodoo (maybe the pros can answer), but this seems to work for me...

 

I am not sure and i am no expert, but a wild guess is that the restart in 8 could have it done. Several months ago tried to install the HVM windows tools and failed. Will try to follow these steps and see if they work for me or not.

If you got time enough and want to test my theory, I would suggest creating a new HVM, skip the reboot at 8 and see if it crashes or not.

[Lennart Grabowski]

I got around it with some voodoo:
1. Copied the Win.img to dom0 Downloads

2. Re-attached the cd-rom:"dom0/Downloads" every time the set-up required a reboot

3. After installing I rebooted the WindowsHVM a few times until everything was set-up

4. Restarted qubes completely

5. Started the WinVM with qubes-tools attached

6. Done the testdriver-accept-sign-thing (you get what i mean)

7. Before restarting I copied the .exe from cd-rom to desktop

8. Rebooted without any cd-rom attached

9. Installed Qubes-Tools from Desktop

10. rebooted a few times

I don't know, which part is essential and which part voodoo (maybe the pros can answer), but this seems to work for me...

 

I am not sure and i am no expert, but a wild guess is that the restart in 8 could have it done. Several months ago tried to install the HVM windows tools and failed. Will try to follow these steps and see if they work for me or not.

If you got time enough and want to test my theory, I would suggest creating a new HVM, skip the reboot at 8 and see if it crashes or not.

I put the weekend to good use und tried a few different combinations and the most important part could be the reboot in 8, indeed. Attaching the qubes tools, too many times seems to corrupt some registry-entries and the BSoD occurs...

[Gorka Alonso]

Glad to help :-)

 

[Jake]

thanks for your input lennart, i'll test that out soon. i forgot to post an update on this issue, so here we go.

i went out and bought a laptop that was on the qubes HCL and tried to setup win7-x64 as i had before. it worked without event, suggesting that this issue is somehow related to the hardware i was using originally, e.g. my particular hardware + the version of xen shipped with qubes is bad combination.

based on seeing the HVM and VT-d messages in the "xl dmesg" output for the hardware i was using, i believe that both vt-x and vt-d were active, although i did not run the qubes-hcl-report on it to confirm. it could be that the xl dmesg was misleading and that, e.g. the cpu supported the VT extensions but the motherboard did not.

[Fabian Wloch]

I sent this mail before from my other mailbox, but it looks like something is screwed up in there, so here again from gmail:

Since this is the last mail in terms of Windows 7 HVMs, i´ll write it here.
I just installed a new Windows-7 VM - with the .iso i always used in the past, and which worked the last times without problems. When i tried to install the windows-tools, the setup stopped at starting the services.
After the setup rollback, i cant start the VM again. Its always ending up in a bsod, which is kinda the same as it was the topic in this mails.
After that, i downloaded the english setup (Before i used Win7 Prof. x64 in German, now Win7 Prof. x64 in English) - the same error.
Order of things i did:
Create the HVM -> Boot it from dom0 with the iso image -> install regulary -> reboot with windows-tools -> bcdedit [...] -> reboot -> install windows tools -> error mentioned above -> reboot -> bluescreen from now on

If i clone my old Win7-HVM and reinstall the tools, the same stuff happens.
Error from the setup: http://i.imgur.com/DP113QQ.png
Qubes-Windows-Tools Version: 2.4.1-1.x86_64


---
best regards,
Fabian Wloch

[Lennart Grabowski]

you need to run the qubes tool setup as admin and don't try to install the qubes tools right away after the win-setup finished.
As mentioned before: WindowsVM seems to need a few reboots after complete installation. And attaching the cd-rom multiple times (which you did, if I read your procedure correctly) seems to brick the system, too.

[Iestyn Best]

I am trying to install a HVM-Template of Windows 7 at the moment and it seems that even without inserting the qubes-windows-tools cd my VM will crash.

I install to a fresh VM and go through the Win 7 Ent x64 install and it shutdowns once.

I then start again and it finalises the install and shuts down again.

I start up and it go through the first user wizard and takes me to a desktop that seems to be working fine. I shutdown.

The next startup it gets a BSOD.

I am not sure what is causing it.

I am trying at the moment to have a fresh install and when it gets to the desktop I am running windows updates before I start again.

Has anyone else determined why this happens?

Also, not related but my Win 8 image, which was a P2V, I have to start twice each day. The first time it starts after booting the laptop it seems to have the spinning circles (if you know what I mean) moving slower than normal and it takes a long time before it tells me the boot failed. But if I kill it, even if it is during the slow moving circles, then start it up all seems fine and the VM starts quickly.

Any thoughts may be helpful.

[Iestyn Best]

That seemed to work.

Does it have something to do with the service pack that was installed during the updates?

[Rafał Wojdyła]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It's possible, some Windows updates need several reboots to complete.

- --

Rafał Wojdyła
Qubes Tools for Windows developer

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[Patrick Schleizer]

Hi!

In my BSoD case, Qubes Windows Tools are not even involved.

1.
Create New VM -> HVM Template -> insert Windows 7 Home Premium x64 iso
English

not remove dvd drive or anything

2.
start -> install -> automatically shuts down

3.
start -> automatically shuts down

4.

start -> user/password setup -> skip serial number -> recommended
settings -> public network -> usable Windows desktop -> manual shut down

5.

start -> usable Windows desktop -> manual shut down

6.

start -> BSoD BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG

Any idea?

Cheers,
Patrick

[charlotte...@gmail.com]

Hi Patrick,

I've just been having this exact problem with the same sequence of events. It turns out that I'd forgotten to increase the initial memory setting for the VM and it was still set at the default of 512MB. Window 7 64bit requires at least 2GB, so I set the initial memory for the VM to 2GB and BSoDs stopped.

[raah...@gmail.com]

I just had the same problem, installed windows, rebooted, rebooted, go to issuing the command qvm-start win7 --install-windows-tools and then bsod.

THis is 3rd time i'm installing windows. the first two times i was able to install windows tools without getting a bsod, seems like this just randomly happened. qvm prefs were set automatically, but the problemwith the first two attempts was after restarting up the vm again, i get the log in screen fullscreen, unable to change window size, can't tab to kde desktop, and keyboard woudln't work, just the mouse.

Gonna try a 4th time with increasing memory before i give up.

[raah...@gmail.com]

eh same issue, get to login screen, keyboard doesn't work and its stuck in fullscreen.

oh i forgot to say the the second time i thought it was working, but it froze with cpu in qvm manager stuck at 75% and no cpu use in kde cpu panel measure. So i killed the vm, that is the time it showed automatically in the qvm-prefs true for qrexec_installed and guiagent_installed. but this time and the time before that i just get the fullscreen login screen with no keyboard.

I have a feeling that windows-tools is not completing the installation on the reboot and the second time when it looked correct with the resizeable window, and started out with lots of hdd and cpu activity, I think it was actually creating the private.img but the other times i think its not getting that far. or maybe its a display issue? i dunno. I use nouveau driver.

Also to note i've tried typical and complete install selections. And when i reboot after installing windows tools, i'm again using the same command with --install-windows-tools. Not sure if I'm doing somethign wrong here.

[Rafał Wojdyła]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Have you tried enabling autologon in the VM before installing tools?
(Start - Run - netplwiz)

- --
Rafał Wojdyła
Qubes Tools for Windows developer

https://www.qubes-os.org/
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[Tim W]

Unless it has to do with procedure during the install such as the not setting no user password login I have not had any issues after doing this install tonight.


HVM template

Set min ram to 2.5 GB

WIndows 7 pro sp1 install from iso in dom0

Set for no user login (netplwiz)

installed qubes windows tools from testing repo
           disabled sig cert
           rebooted using the install tools from dom0
           installed the msi
           Allowed user folders to be moved to priavate img partition
           rebooted

Had some spikes where processors when to 90's% and things were unresponive for suggish for a few mins I am assuming there was configurtions going on in the background.

After that everything has seemed to run smoothly.

Both seamless and desktop gui mode both work.


Have not yet tried creating appvm off the template.


Only noticed outstanding issue so far is that windows update is not functioning.  It just spins.   Also the network connection gui map and the sys tray agent for it both show it not being connected to the internet yet internet access works fine for all other functions other than those two items.

My only thought on the issues would be running out of ram or a mapping issue during rebooting as has already been stated.   So all I can offer is its not a all install error symptom as my install did not replicate the issue.

[Charlotte Hammond]

Hi Tim,

Regarding the Windows update issue. I had huge problems with this also, in that it would sit at the 'Checking for updates..' screen and never finish. I never figured out the root cause, but the one thing I can recommend trying, which seemed to work for me, is to change the update settings to 'Install updates automatically' and let it scan for them automatically at the set time, instead of searching for them manually.

I never managed to successfully get it to find updates when doing a manual search, but as soon as I set it all to automatic, and let it get on with things on its own, it started working. No idea why though.

Also, a fairly basic thing but make sure you have enough disk space allocated to your Windows VM (e.g. at least 30-40GB). I find that the initial batches of updates eat through it all fairly quickly, which can cause additional problems.

[raah...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 5:19:19 AM UTC-5, omeg wrote:

This did the trick! tks alot. Wow I totally missed that part of the instructions. I skipped right to "Installing Qubes guest tools in Windows 7 VMs", sorry about that!

Now that full screen login appears but then goes away, and clicking an app from the kde start menu actually loads the program and the keyboard works.

[Tim W]

Do not feel bad I have done that so many times as I tend to jump ahead because so much of it seems like normal progression but just one small thing and you get these weird issues.  

Glad you got it working!!!  

 I am really enjoying having it work so smoothly for me as there a couple proprietary apps I am required to use that are win only   This takes care of it.  Not to mention that sometimes having my old office 2007 working is huge when you need to redact text in a file not just color it.

[raah...@gmail.com]

yes its working great!

[Tim W]

I have update set to auto, per your suggestion, for late tonight. I will see how things look when I check it in the morning.


When you have Windows running but no apps open other than the default ones built into windows even in seamless mode are you running a decent level of processor activity?   According to the VMM for CPU % for this hvm after starting and once everything is fully lodaed etc It's running @ a steady 12% cpu.  That seems quite high for the OS without any installed programs other than built ins. 

I do have windows defender and fw turned on.   Should those be turned off? 

I am wondering if its the OS trying to get the connection to the internet thru its stupid user friendly network gui.   Man to I miss the good old days of network neighborhood.   I thought I would not be possible back then.  You just checked your network properties and that was it.  No scripts continuously running.

Has anyone tried to run virus software from the HVM?

[raah...@gmail.com]

Mine hovers at 0-1, spiking to 4% sometimes. but I don't have network set up yet, maybe yours is trying to download updates. Like I said even on a baremetal windows sytem, ever since windows 10 came out, I sometimes have to let it check for updates for over an hour even when prior already up to date.

[Tim W]

that must have been it.  It was all coming from server service.   The auto updates have been working and that was likley all it was.  A day after allowing the auto updates and doing the how ever many GB of updates its no longer showing the cpu load.    Now I just need to insure microsoft can not download the gxw.exe update to try and get windows 10 downloaded since I have to stick with auto update and do not want the pop up nor the files its changing to help ensure upgrade.  Just an FYI for those that do not know it: MS sends this update out many times possibly weekly and some of the time its different.  Its the same KB number but the binaries are different and download different files other than the update app .  If it differs then your system updates it thus if you were to uninstall the update you would only be reverting to an older version at best.  MS is a royal PITA with the aggressive push to get everyone on win10.

[c6dl...@gmail.com]

Windows tools is full of bugs.. time for some fixes??

[raah...@gmail.com]

Not sure you will be able to stop gwx or telemetry updates from installing anymore, they've snuck from recommended to important updates lol, I mean i guess you can just read the info on every critical update before you install them every month.(unless they are now hiding the description) But you can also stop it from doing anything and stop the popups by using the built in windows firewall to filter outgoing. What I also do which might help is only allow svchost.exe for dns, and only allow it access for everything else when doing updates. just make two rules for it. Keep the dns one up top and enabled and keep the other one disabled except for when needed.

[Achim Patzner]

Am 09.02.2016 um 09:36 schrieb c6dl...@gmail.com:
>
> Windows tools is full of bugs.. time for some fixes??

Of course. Got any?


Achim

[Tim W]

LOL

I was thinking the same thing.

A detailed list of each bug with the logging to show the errors would be a nice starting point.

As its open source now its open for all people to improve it etc..

[raah...@gmail.com]

Went to update my bare metal windows 7 yesterday, took 45 minutes before it found updates, two gwx programs, the telemetry, and some other program related to display i never noticed trying to make connections the first 20 mins of checking for updates lol, I still say win 10 has something to do with it taking so long.

I'm glad at least Microsoft hasn't compromised their own firewall in win 7, It will still block all those things if you filter outgoing and only allow what is necessary.

[Tim W]

The window 10 roll out push has been one of the most strategized moves MS has devised and so critical to its long term profitability since WIndow 95 and NT its that critical to them.   They are going to do everything they can to push the universal adoption of win10 in the consumer pc world.  It will be the foundation of its paid for services rollout which is its target from the OS market.

I think they will only stop short of a forced install.  But that does not mean they will not create influence or allow to develop scenarios that would strongly influence people to switch as we move forward.

Have you tried the app a dev wrote named gwx panel?   It will even prevent the new download and uninstall and or lock out the attempts and changes made by the update.   I would suggest at least going to the page and reading his blog as he gives some very helpful regerstiry edits to prevent it from seeing this windows os as upgradable.  there are a few others that help prevent it from activating unless windows update itself is updated when then would require you to reset a couple things.  Anyways its an informative read if you have to deal with individual admin of Windows wkstn.

If they only ran the same update it would be no big deal but MS seems to change the update including binary changes and things that go far beyond the standard gwx notification app.  They are making changes based on your OS to allow for easier updating to win10.  The issue is that everytime they overwrite with a changed update of the same name if you try to do a standard revert all you get is the old version of the gwx update.  Thus only you are past one version you are stuck and could only manually remove all the various pieces which are who knows or revert to a older backup of you system.

I foresee MS ending up in court yet again over all of this because I think at some point they are going to change something that will purposely and with premeditation hurt or degrade previous window OS performance to push them to win10.   They just can not help themselves.  They only know how to be bullish and hostile, its their nature at the top. 

[raah...@gmail.com]

No i heard about it, never downloaded it. They still haven't compromised their own firewall at least. It will block the gwx. (I do also use a lightweight firewall to filter outgoing ontop of the w7fw uses the same wfp protocol as well as peerblock, so they all go to same log and gui balloon) I've always filtered outgoing in firewalls, cause like qubes, I assume my pc will get some nasties trying to phone home no matter what I do and I consider it good practice even if that isnt' the general consensus in irc channels are among the "security" industry.

I don't get any windows 10 popups, the 2gb data hasn't downloaded on my pc, and my pc is running great. Just every tuesday when I do a windows update i will see the gwx config manager and the other gwx process(i forget the name) trying to make a connection, but like I said it gets blocked so I just ignore it. I'd rather not install some new 3rd party thing on my computer since I apparently don't need it. (I just got rid of secunia and filehippo update manager, i think they are both unsafe now)

Yes I don't trust them, the most unscrupulous thing they ever did imo is how they put out an update 3 months before the win 7 mainstream support ended that broke many machines in many ways, at the same time they removed the digital river iso downloads. People complained that mainstream support didn't end so they put them back up. Then 3 months after mainstream support ended, they released the same superseding update, I kid you not the same one, and once again destroyed many peoples machines and once again removed the digital river iso's this time for good... Now they have a new site on their own domain for downloading iso's, which they are now back to not accepting oem keys (even though it will work on the iso) and even alot of retail keys won't work. After that i started using linux again, which i've always used on and off, but now full time for everything besides gaming. After 2020 i'm going to give windows gaming up too.

[Tim W]

Yep I have seen the same thing over a very long career dealing with them at the enterprise level.

BTW I assume you know about the policy or reg entry you can make to prevent the upgrade.  I only suggest adding it as a safety measure if some how MS tried to force feed you it or a mistake just happens.

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

This was part of a patch given out to the enterprise systems early on.  Fact is as SOP I always controlled this kind of thing on our networks. 

[raah...@gmail.com]

No I didn't, tks for the tip!

[gaikokuji...@gmail.com]

Hi, jut wanted to thank you for the memory tip! I was pulling my hair out as I was having cdrom issues (computer not detecting cdrom) then figured I didn't need one so tried installing win7 only to get the bsod, now it (seems) to all be working great! Cheers!