AEM boot option causes hard reboot/partial shutdown (Lenovo T450s)

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Andrew David Wong

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May 17, 2016, 2:44:18 AM5/17/16
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I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s (Broadwell,
Wildcat Point-LP).

A previous report from Alex Guzman indicated that AEM works on this
model. [1] However, I've followed the instructions [2] to the letter
and across dozens of variations over the course of days with no luck.
It's possible I'm missing something obvious, but here's what I've tried:

* Use legacy boot option.
* Use UEFI boot option.
* Try all USB ports.
* Try different USB drives.
* Install to /boot partition on internal SSD.
* Enable/disable different BIOS USB options.
* Try different AEM text secrets (e.g., no symbols).
* Check that the correct SINIT module is in /boot.
Unless I'm mistaken, for the T450s, it should be:

5th_gen_i5_i7_SINIT_79.BIN

In all cases, everything goes smoothly with the installation up to
step 5 (reboot and select the "AEM Qubes" GRUB option). I select that
option (or allow it to be auto-selected, or select the one in the
"advanced" submenu). It gets about 4 lines in (up to "loading initial
ramdisk," I think; a bit too fast to read), then the laptop appears to
do a hard reboot/partial shutdown. Instead of a normal reboot with the
BIOS and normal boot process, the screen is blank, but the system
retains power. (Power button is lit and keyboard backlight brightness
can be changed.)

Does anyone have any ideas or tips about this one? Any help would be
greatly appreciated.


[1] https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/jelz1pA8Ilk/discussion
[2] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-antievilmaid/blob/master/anti-
evil-maid/README

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

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May 17, 2016, 2:55:19 AM5/17/16
to qubes...@googlegroups.com, al...@guzman.io
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On 2016-05-16 23:44, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s
> (Broadwell, Wildcat Point-LP).
>
> A previous report from Alex Guzman indicated that AEM works on
> this model. [1] However, I've followed the instructions [2] to the
> letter and across dozens of variations over the course of days with
> no luck. It's possible I'm missing something obvious, but here's
> what I've tried:
>
> * Use legacy boot option. * Use UEFI boot option. * Try all USB
> ports. * Try different USB drives. * Install to /boot partition on
> internal SSD. * Enable/disable different BIOS USB options. * Try
> different AEM text secrets (e.g., no symbols). * Check that the
> correct SINIT module is in /boot. Unless I'm mistaken, for the
> T450s, it should be:
>
> 5th_gen_i5_i7_SINIT_79.BIN
>
> In all cases, everything goes smoothly with the installation up to
> step 5 (reboot and select the "AEM Qubes" GRUB option). I select
> that option (or allow it to be auto-selected, or select the one in
> the "advanced" submenu). It gets about 4 lines in (up to "loading
> initial ramdisk," I think; a bit too fast to read), then the laptop
> appears to do a hard reboot/partial shutdown. Instead of a normal
> reboot with the BIOS and normal boot process, the screen is blank,
> but the system retains power. (Power button is lit and keyboard
> backlight brightness can be changed.)
>

Just to clarify what I mean by "hard reboot/partial shutdown," here
are the physical symptoms:

1. Screen goes blank.
2. Screen and keyboard backlight both flash briefly, then go blank
again.
3. Faint "pop" sound (sounds power-related).
4. Fan dies down.
5. Screen and keyboard backlight are dark, but Fn (function) key and
power button LED are lit.
6. Pressing keyboard backlight combination (Fn + space) toggles
backlight brightness. All other keys/combinations are unresponsive.
7. Briefly holding down power button completely shuts down the laptop
(~1 second; much faster than usual).

> Does anyone have any ideas or tips about this one? Any help would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> [1]
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/jelz1pA8Ilk/discussion
>
>
[2] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-antievilmaid/blob/master/anti-
> evil-maid/README
>

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Alex Guzman

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May 17, 2016, 3:01:53 AM5/17/16
to Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com
I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never had this behavior.

For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key set, using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re seeing.

> On May 16, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
>
> Signed PGP part
signature.asc

Andrew David Wong

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May 17, 2016, 4:24:25 AM5/17/16
to Alex Guzman, qubes...@googlegroups.com
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Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
> I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never had
> this behavior.
>
> For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key set,
> using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re seeing.
>

Thanks for the feedback, Alex! I'm beginning to suspect that it's due
to an AEM installer change since then.
- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

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May 17, 2016, 7:17:34 AM5/17/16
to Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com, al...@guzman.io
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Hash: SHA256

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:44:14PM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s (Broadwell,
> Wildcat Point-LP).
>
> A previous report from Alex Guzman indicated that AEM works on this
> model. [1] However, I've followed the instructions [2] to the letter
> and across dozens of variations over the course of days with no luck.
> It's possible I'm missing something obvious, but here's what I've tried:
>
> * Use legacy boot option.
> * Use UEFI boot option.

AEM is not compatible with UEFI, so you can rule this option out.

> * Try all USB ports.
> * Try different USB drives.
> * Install to /boot partition on internal SSD.
> * Enable/disable different BIOS USB options.

Do you have Intel TXT enabled in BIOS?

> * Try different AEM text secrets (e.g., no symbols).
> * Check that the correct SINIT module is in /boot.
> Unless I'm mistaken, for the T450s, it should be:
>
> 5th_gen_i5_i7_SINIT_79.BIN
>
> In all cases, everything goes smoothly with the installation up to
> step 5 (reboot and select the "AEM Qubes" GRUB option). I select that
> option (or allow it to be auto-selected, or select the one in the
> "advanced" submenu). It gets about 4 lines in (up to "loading initial
> ramdisk," I think; a bit too fast to read), then the laptop appears to
> do a hard reboot/partial shutdown.

Try adding "logging=serial,vga,memory" option to "multiboot
.../tboot.gz" line in grub - can be directly from grub menu. And remove
"quiet" from kernel parameters and "console=none" from xen parameters.

> Instead of a normal reboot with the
> BIOS and normal boot process, the screen is blank, but the system
> retains power. (Power button is lit and keyboard backlight brightness
> can be changed.)
>
> Does anyone have any ideas or tips about this one? Any help would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
>
> [1] https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/jelz1pA8Ilk/discussion
> [2] https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-antievilmaid/blob/master/anti-
> evil-maid/README
>

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Chris Laprise

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May 17, 2016, 12:17:13 PM5/17/16
to Andrew David Wong, Alex Guzman, qubes...@googlegroups.com


On 05/17/2016 04:24 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
>> I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never had
>> this behavior.
>>
>> For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key set,
>> using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re seeing.
>>
> Thanks for the feedback, Alex! I'm beginning to suspect that it's due
> to an AEM installer change since then.

After using AEM for years, I tried to install a second copy a few weeks
ago and failed. So I am thinking the installer became broken as well.
When I get a chance I intend to retrace my steps and file an issue for it.

Chris

jpalc...@gmail.com

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May 17, 2016, 1:01:53 PM5/17/16
to qubes-users, a...@qubes-os.org, al...@guzman.io, tas...@openmailbox.org
I managed to install AEM on thinkpad x220 yesterday(TXT enabled, UEFI disabled, secret is txt file, VT-d is enabled), so the installer is rather working now, but I had few problems with TPM - I wasn't able to take ownership - after disabling TPM -> restart -> enabling security chip even the option to clear keys disappeared from BIOS.
The solution was simple: In Lenovo's laptops, the "Physical Presence" thing mentioned i.e. in tpm_clear tool is related with pressing fn before power button - in that case the option appeared again in bios and I hadn't met any other problems.

Regards,
Jacek

Andrew David Wong

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May 17, 2016, 10:46:56 PM5/17/16
to Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, qubes...@googlegroups.com
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Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-17 04:17, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:44:14PM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s
>> (Broadwell, Wildcat Point-LP).
>
>> A previous report from Alex Guzman indicated that AEM works on
>> this model. [1] However, I've followed the instructions [2] to
>> the letter and across dozens of variations over the course of
>> days with no luck. It's possible I'm missing something obvious,
>> but here's what I've tried:
>
>> * Use legacy boot option. * Use UEFI boot option.
>
> AEM is not compatible with UEFI, so you can rule this option out.
>

Understood.

>> * Try all USB ports. * Try different USB drives. * Install to
>> /boot partition on internal SSD. * Enable/disable different BIOS
>> USB options.
>
> Do you have Intel TXT enabled in BIOS?
>

Yes, TXT is enabled.

>> * Try different AEM text secrets (e.g., no symbols). * Check
>> that the correct SINIT module is in /boot. Unless I'm mistaken,
>> for the T450s, it should be:
>
>> 5th_gen_i5_i7_SINIT_79.BIN
>
>> In all cases, everything goes smoothly with the installation up
>> to step 5 (reboot and select the "AEM Qubes" GRUB option). I
>> select that option (or allow it to be auto-selected, or select
>> the one in the "advanced" submenu). It gets about 4 lines in (up
>> to "loading initial ramdisk," I think; a bit too fast to read),
>> then the laptop appears to do a hard reboot/partial shutdown.
>
> Try adding "logging=serial,vga,memory" option to "multiboot
> .../tboot.gz" line in grub - can be directly from grub menu. And
> remove "quiet" from kernel parameters and "console=none" from xen
> parameters.
>

Ok, I've tried again with these options. The result is the same,
except that some more output flashes across the screen before it
fails, but it's far too fast to read.

Is there any way to dump the output to disk so that I can read it?

>> Instead of a normal reboot with the BIOS and normal boot
>> process, the screen is blank, but the system retains power.
>> (Power button is lit and keyboard backlight brightness can be
>> changed.)
>
>> Does anyone have any ideas or tips about this one? Any help
>> would be greatly appreciated.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 17, 2016, 10:47:25 PM5/17/16
to Chris Laprise, Alex Guzman, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Sounds good. Please keep us posted!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

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May 17, 2016, 11:14:37 PM5/17/16
to jpalc...@gmail.com, qubes-users, tas...@openmailbox.org
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On 2016-05-17 10:01, jpalc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 6:17:13 PM UTC+2, Chris Laprise wrote:
>> On 05/17/2016 04:24 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>>
>>> On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
>>>> I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never
>>>> had this behavior.
>>>>
>>>> For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key
>>>> set, using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re
>>>> seeing.
>>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback, Alex! I'm beginning to suspect that
>>> it's due to an AEM installer change since then.
>>
>> After using AEM for years, I tried to install a second copy a few
>> weeks ago and failed. So I am thinking the installer became
>> broken as well. When I get a chance I intend to retrace my steps
>> and file an issue for it.
>>
> I managed to install AEM on thinkpad x220 yesterday(TXT enabled,
> UEFI disabled, secret is txt file, VT-d is enabled), so the
> installer is rather working now, but I had few problems with TPM -
> I wasn't able to take ownership - after disabling TPM -> restart
> -> enabling security chip even the option to clear keys
> disappeared from BIOS.

I didn't encounter any problems with taking ownership of the TPM. I
did, however, discover that Lenovos (or at least this model) requires
a cold boot (rather than a warm boot) in order for the option to clear
the TPM to be available in the BIOS.

> The solution was simple: In Lenovo's laptops, the "Physical
> Presence" thing mentioned i.e. in tpm_clear tool is related with
> pressing fn before power button - in that case the option appeared
> again in bios and I hadn't met any other problems.

Interesting. As mentioned above, I didn't have to press Fn before the
power button in order to clear or take ownership of the TPM even
though I have the "require physical presence" option enabled in the
BIOS. Perhaps this issue is model-specific or BIOS-specific.

Just to clarify, when you say "pressing fn before power button," do
you mean the following?

1. System is completely powered off.
2. Press and hold the Fn key.
3. Press and release the power button.
4. Release the Fn key.

In your case, this caused the "clear TPM" option to be available in
the BIOS, whereas before it was not? Did it have any other effects?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,
May 17, 2016, 11:28:05 PM5/17/16
to Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 07:46:46PM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2016-05-17 04:17, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:44:14PM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> >> I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s
> >> (Broadwell, Wildcat Point-LP).
> >
> >> A previous report from Alex Guzman indicated that AEM works on
> >> this model. [1] However, I've followed the instructions [2] to
> >> the letter and across dozens of variations over the course of
> >> days with no luck. It's possible I'm missing something obvious,
> >> but here's what I've tried:
> >
> >> * Use legacy boot option. * Use UEFI boot option.
> >
> > AEM is not compatible with UEFI, so you can rule this option out.
> >
>
> Understood.

Interesting, according to tboot documentation it supports EFI. But
multiboot2 support in Xen is still missing, so not going to work yet.

> >> * Try different AEM text secrets (e.g., no symbols). * Check
> >> that the correct SINIT module is in /boot. Unless I'm mistaken,
> >> for the T450s, it should be:
> >
> >> 5th_gen_i5_i7_SINIT_79.BIN
> >
> >> In all cases, everything goes smoothly with the installation up
> >> to step 5 (reboot and select the "AEM Qubes" GRUB option). I
> >> select that option (or allow it to be auto-selected, or select
> >> the one in the "advanced" submenu). It gets about 4 lines in (up
> >> to "loading initial ramdisk," I think; a bit too fast to read),
> >> then the laptop appears to do a hard reboot/partial shutdown.
> >
> > Try adding "logging=serial,vga,memory" option to "multiboot
> > .../tboot.gz" line in grub - can be directly from grub menu. And
> > remove "quiet" from kernel parameters and "console=none" from xen
> > parameters.
> >
>
> Ok, I've tried again with these options. The result is the same,
> except that some more output flashes across the screen before it
> fails, but it's far too fast to read.
>
> Is there any way to dump the output to disk so that I can read it?

You can try with serial console if you have one...

Check tboot documentation in /usr/share/doc/tboot/README - there are
some more hints.

For example vga_delay=<secs> parameter to slow down the output.

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 17, 2016, 11:55:35 PM5/17/16
to Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Ok, thanks. Using vga_delay, I was able to see that TBOOT gets to this
point before it fails:

setting MTRRs for acmod: [...]
executing GETSEC[SENTER]...
<system reboots>

Everything before that looks good (confirmed that SINIT module matches
platform, etc.). The only thing I'm not sure about is that there are
warnings that there's no TPM NV policy (or that it can't be read).

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 18, 2016, 1:02:32 AM5/18/16
to jpalc...@gmail.com, qubes-users, tas...@openmailbox.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-17 10:01, jpalc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 6:17:13 PM UTC+2, Chris Laprise wrote:
>> On 05/17/2016 04:24 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
>>>
>>> On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
>>>> I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I
>>>> never had this behavior.
>>>>
>>>> For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key
>>>> set, using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re
>>>> seeing.
>>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback, Alex! I'm beginning to suspect that
>>> it's due to an AEM installer change since then.
>>
>> After using AEM for years, I tried to install a second copy a
>> few weeks ago and failed. So I am thinking the installer became
>> broken as well. When I get a chance I intend to retrace my steps
>> and file an issue for it.
>>
> I managed to install AEM on thinkpad x220 yesterday(TXT enabled,
> UEFI disabled, secret is txt file, VT-d is enabled), so the
> installer is rather working now

Did you use the latest version of AEM (version 3.0.2), or was it by
chance an older version? You can check with this command in dom0:

$ sudo yum info anti-evil-maid | grep Version

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Jacek Palczewski

unread,
May 18, 2016, 1:27:00 AM5/18/16
to qubes-users, jpalc...@gmail.com, tas...@openmailbox.org
Yes, I used the latest version.

> - --
> Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> Community Manager, Qubes OS
> https://www.qubes-os.org
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> Just to clarify, when you say "pressing fn before power button," do
> you mean the following?

> 1. System is completely powered off.
> 2. Press and hold the Fn key.
> 3. Press and release the power button.
> 4. Release the Fn key.
That's true.

> In your case, this caused the "clear TPM" option to be available in
> the BIOS, whereas before it was not? Did it have any other effects?

Yes, I haven't tested if booting with fn key has any further impact in system.

Regards,
Jacek

Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 18, 2016, 1:31:56 AM5/18/16
to Alex Guzman, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
> I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never had
> this behavior.
>
> For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key set,
> using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re seeing.
>

Alex, do you know which version of the BIOS you had when AEM worked on
your T450s?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Alex Guzman

unread,
May 18, 2016, 1:32:33 AM5/18/16
to Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com
Same one, haven’t updated it. It’s in the HCL file I sent in.

> On May 17, 2016, at 10:31 PM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
>
> Signed PGP part
> On 2016-05-17 00:01, Alex Guzman wrote:
> > I’ve removed Qubes from the laptop at this point, but I never had
> > this behavior.
> >
> > For reference, my setup had an internal /boot, TPM SRK key set,
> > using legacy boot. I never encountered the stuff you’re seeing.
> >
>
> Alex, do you know which version of the BIOS you had when AEM worked on
> your T450s?
>
signature.asc

Jacek Palczewski

unread,
May 18, 2016, 2:20:30 AM5/18/16
to qubes-users
> Perhaps this issue is model-specific or BIOS-specific.
It isn't, because this trick is based on
http://trousers.sourceforge.net/faq.html#5.1 and appears a few times in trousers mailing list.

Regards,
Jacek

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,
May 18, 2016, 6:49:32 AM5/18/16
to Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
I guess, it's where SINIT module is actually executed.
Quick search returns some quite old (2009-2010) threads on tboot-devel
when "GETSEC[SENTER]" fails (but not reboots). After some BIOS update.
But can't find anything with reboot there. Maybe worth asking on
tboot-devel?

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Chris Laprise

unread,
May 18, 2016, 11:32:59 AM5/18/16
to Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, Andrew David Wong, qubes...@googlegroups.com
What happens when BIOS checks the SINIT signature and it fails? Reboot?

Try downloading the SINIT file from an alternate network route, and
verify if possible (I don't recall if Intel provides checksums).

Also check your BIOS version and maybe do an update.

And test your hardware and RAM (there is a BIOS menu with a built-in test).

Chris

Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 18, 2016, 11:43:35 AM5/18/16
to Chris Laprise, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Yes. From what I've read, that's the normal failure mode for tboot.

> Try downloading the SINIT file from an alternate network route,
> and verify if possible (I don't recall if Intel provides
> checksums).
>

Yep, downloaded over clearnet and Tor on different computers; hashes
match. Platform match confirmed in tboot output.

> Also check your BIOS version and maybe do an update.
>

Looks like there's an update available, but the process requires
either using Windows or a really long, complicated, and dangerous (in
the sense that it risks bricking the laptop) process for Linux. And it
may not even work after updating the BIOS. If I have time, I'll
consider trying it.

> And test your hardware and RAM (there is a BIOS menu with a
> built-in test).
>

Yep, hardware tests check out.

> Chris
>

I appreciate the suggestions!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Frank Schäckermann

unread,
May 19, 2016, 5:34:29 AM5/19/16
to Andrew David Wong adw-at-qubes-os.org |qubes-mailing-list/Example Allow|, Chris Laprise, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, qubes...@googlegroups.com
There should be a bootable BIOS-Updater-Image that can be burned to a CD and booted on the TP to get the BIOS updated. At least there was one for my Lenovo W530 a couple of weeks ago. Practically hassle free - not counting getting the CD burned on Qubes OS. ;-) But than again... the T450 mileage may vary...

>
>> And test your hardware and RAM (there is a BIOS menu with a
>> built-in test).
>
> Yep, hardware tests check out.
>
>> Chris
>
> I appreciate the suggestions!
>
> - --
> Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> Community Manager, Qubes OS
> https://www.qubes-os.org
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>
> --
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 27, 2016, 6:28:01 AM5/27/16
to Frank Schäckermann, Chris Laprise, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-19 02:34, Frank Schäckermann wrote:
> There should be a bootable BIOS-Updater-Image that can be burned to
> a CD and booted on the TP to get the BIOS updated. At least there
> was one for my Lenovo W530 a couple of weeks ago. Practically
> hassle free - not counting getting the CD burned on Qubes OS. ;-)
> But than again... the T450 mileage may vary...

Thanks, Frank. Unfortunately, even after successfully updating the BIOS
to the latest version, AEM is still not working (fails the same way as
before). I really thought updating the BIOS would fix it, since
there's a TPM-related fix in the BIOS patch notes.

Marek, I noticed that the version of tboot being used is somewhat old
(July 2014). Would upgrading tboot itself break compatibility with
AEM? If so, are there any plans to upgrade AEM to be compatible with a
newer version of tboot?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,
May 29, 2016, 7:34:53 PM5/29/16
to Andrew David Wong, Frank Schäckermann, Chris Laprise, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 03:27:50AM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2016-05-19 02:34, Frank Schäckermann wrote:
> > There should be a bootable BIOS-Updater-Image that can be burned to
> > a CD and booted on the TP to get the BIOS updated. At least there
> > was one for my Lenovo W530 a couple of weeks ago. Practically
> > hassle free - not counting getting the CD burned on Qubes OS. ;-)
> > But than again... the T450 mileage may vary...
>
> Thanks, Frank. Unfortunately, even after successfully updating the BIOS
> to the latest version, AEM is still not working (fails the same way as
> before). I really thought updating the BIOS would fix it, since
> there's a TPM-related fix in the BIOS patch notes.
>
> Marek, I noticed that the version of tboot being used is somewhat old
> (July 2014). Would upgrading tboot itself break compatibility with
> AEM? If so, are there any plans to upgrade AEM to be compatible with a
> newer version of tboot?

I think newer tboot shouldn't break anything. The only reason for this
particular version (1.8.2) is a package in Fedora. And I see even in
Fedora 23 (planned as dom0 for Qubes 3.2), it's still at 1.8.2.

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
May 30, 2016, 2:10:54 AM5/30/16
to Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, Frank Schäckermann, Chris Laprise, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-05-29 16:34, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 03:27:50AM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> On 2016-05-19 02:34, Frank Schäckermann wrote:
>>> There should be a bootable BIOS-Updater-Image that can be
>>> burned to a CD and booted on the TP to get the BIOS updated. At
>>> least there was one for my Lenovo W530 a couple of weeks ago.
>>> Practically hassle free - not counting getting the CD burned on
>>> Qubes OS. ;-) But than again... the T450 mileage may vary...
>
>> Thanks, Frank. Unfortunately, even after successfully updating
>> the BIOS to the latest version, AEM is still not working (fails
>> the same way as before). I really thought updating the BIOS would
>> fix it, since there's a TPM-related fix in the BIOS patch notes.
>
>> Marek, I noticed that the version of tboot being used is somewhat
>> old (July 2014). Would upgrading tboot itself break compatibility
>> with AEM? If so, are there any plans to upgrade AEM to be
>> compatible with a newer version of tboot?
>
> I think newer tboot shouldn't break anything. The only reason for
> this particular version (1.8.2) is a package in Fedora. And I see
> even in Fedora 23 (planned as dom0 for Qubes 3.2), it's still at
> 1.8.2.
>

Would it be as simple as "qubes-dom0-update tboot" or more complicated?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,
May 30, 2016, 3:39:21 AM5/30/16
to Andrew David Wong, Frank Schäckermann, Chris Laprise, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Sun, May 29, 2016 at 11:10:45PM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2016-05-29 16:34, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> > On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 03:27:50AM -0700, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> >> On 2016-05-19 02:34, Frank Schäckermann wrote:
> >>> There should be a bootable BIOS-Updater-Image that can be
> >>> burned to a CD and booted on the TP to get the BIOS updated. At
> >>> least there was one for my Lenovo W530 a couple of weeks ago.
> >>> Practically hassle free - not counting getting the CD burned on
> >>> Qubes OS. ;-) But than again... the T450 mileage may vary...
> >
> >> Thanks, Frank. Unfortunately, even after successfully updating
> >> the BIOS to the latest version, AEM is still not working (fails
> >> the same way as before). I really thought updating the BIOS would
> >> fix it, since there's a TPM-related fix in the BIOS patch notes.
> >
> >> Marek, I noticed that the version of tboot being used is somewhat
> >> old (July 2014). Would upgrading tboot itself break compatibility
> >> with AEM? If so, are there any plans to upgrade AEM to be
> >> compatible with a newer version of tboot?
> >
> > I think newer tboot shouldn't break anything. The only reason for
> > this particular version (1.8.2) is a package in Fedora. And I see
> > even in Fedora 23 (planned as dom0 for Qubes 3.2), it's still at
> > 1.8.2.
> >
>
> Would it be as simple as "qubes-dom0-update tboot" or more complicated?

It will not help, as there is no newer package for Fedora (even for
upcoming Fedora 24).

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Todd Lasman

unread,
Jun 23, 2016, 12:58:36 AM6/23/16
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
Andrew, did you ever get this resolved? I seem to have this exact same
problem, but only after installing Qubes 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on
my Thinkpad T430.


signature.asc

Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jun 23, 2016, 2:55:46 AM6/23/16
to Todd Lasman, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> I'm attempting to install Anti Evil Maid on a Lenovo T450s
>> (Broadwell, Wildcat Point-LP).
>>
>> [...]
>
>
> Andrew, did you ever get this resolved?

I'm afraid not. I gave up on it after my last message in this thread.

> I seem to have this exact same problem, but only after installing
> Qubes 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on my Thinkpad T430.

Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM installer having
recently changed was right after all?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jun 23, 2016, 6:53:12 AM6/23/16
to Rusty Bird, qubes-users, Todd Lasman
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-06-23 03:49, Rusty Bird wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
>> On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
>>> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: I seem to
>>> have this exact same problem, but only after installing Qubes
>>> 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on my Thinkpad T430.
>
>> Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM installer
>> having recently changed was right after all?
>
> IIRC and going by the dates on the pages below, the installer and
> all other code changes were before R3.1 (only the README has
> changed since):
>
> [...]
>
> Rusty
>

Ah, perhaps not then. It remains a mystery!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Chris Laprise

unread,
Jun 23, 2016, 7:43:05 AM6/23/16
to Andrew David Wong, Rusty Bird, qubes-users, Todd Lasman


On 06/23/2016 06:53 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 2016-06-23 03:49, Rusty Bird wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>>> On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
>>>> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: I seem to
>>>> have this exact same problem, but only after installing Qubes
>>>> 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on my Thinkpad T430.
>>> Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM installer
>>> having recently changed was right after all?
>> IIRC and going by the dates on the pages below, the installer and
>> all other code changes were before R3.1 (only the README has
>> changed since):
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Rusty
>>
> Ah, perhaps not then. It remains a mystery!
>
If it changed after initial 3.0 release (esp. later on, near the 3.1
release date) then that would actually make sense.

Chris

Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jun 23, 2016, 9:25:35 AM6/23/16
to Rusty Bird, qubes-users, Chris Laprise, Todd Lasman
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2016-06-23 06:20, Rusty Bird wrote:
> Hi Chris & everyone,
>
>> On 06/23/2016 06:53 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>
>>> On 2016-06-23 03:49, Rusty Bird wrote:
>>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: I seem
>>>>>> to have this exact same problem, but only after
>>>>>> installing Qubes 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on my
>>>>>> Thinkpad T430.
>>>>> Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM
>>>>> installer having recently changed was right after all?
>>>> IIRC and going by the dates on the pages below, the
>>>> installer and all other code changes were before R3.1 (only
>>>> the README has changed since):
>
>>> Ah, perhaps not then. It remains a mystery!
>>>
>> If it changed after initial 3.0 release (esp. later on, near the
>> 3.1 release date) then that would actually make sense.
>
> There is something the people for whom AEM fails on UEFI could
> try:
>
> [...]

Not sure if this is directed at me, but I was/am not on UEFI. (If you
were already aware of this and were talking to other people, my
apologies.)

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Rusty Bird

unread,
Jul 1, 2016, 6:34:49 AM7/1/16
to qubes-users, Chris Laprise, Andrew David Wong, Todd Lasman
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hi Chris & everyone,

> On 06/23/2016 06:53 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:

>> On 2016-06-23 03:49, Rusty Bird wrote:
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>>
>>>> On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
>>>>> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: I seem to
>>>>> have this exact same problem, but only after installing
>>>>> Qubes 3.2 (worked fine with 3.1) on my Thinkpad T430.
>>>> Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM
>>>> installer having recently changed was right after all?
>>> IIRC and going by the dates on the pages below, the installer
>>> and all other code changes were before R3.1 (only the README
>>> has changed since):

>> Ah, perhaps not then. It remains a mystery!
>>
> If it changed after initial 3.0 release (esp. later on, near the
> 3.1 release date) then that would actually make sense.

There is something the people for whom AEM fails on UEFI could try:

AEM uses a forked version of grub2's 20_linux_xen as
/etc/grub.d/19_linux_xen_tboot. In commit c43309[1], I rebased this
against the then current (on Fedora) version, which added the
following options for non-BIOS platforms: no-real-mode edd=off

But tboot's 20_linux_xen_tboot [2], a different fork of 20_linux_xen,
never followed grub2 upstream in adding these options. Maybe they
should not be used if Xen is loaded by tboot?

So, try removing "no-real-mode edd=off" (but not the whole line, I
don't know if empty else blocks are allowed here) in
19_linux_xen_tboot and running anti-evil-maid-install again. I'd be
very interested to hear if it helps.

Rusty


1.
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-antievilmaid/commit/c43309d0a0b90368b5b2600c886b9deee55e0522

2.
https://sourceforge.net/p/tboot/code/ci/default/tree/tboot/20_linux_xen_tboot
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Rusty Bird

unread,
Jul 1, 2016, 6:34:49 AM7/1/16
to qubes-users, Andrew David Wong, Todd Lasman
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Hash: SHA512

Hi Andrew,

> On 2016-06-22 21:58, Todd Lasman wrote:
>> On 05/16/2016 11:44 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: I seem to have
>> this exact same problem, but only after installing Qubes 3.2
>> (worked fine with 3.1) on my Thinkpad T430.
>
> Very interesting. Perhaps my suspicion about the AEM installer
> having recently changed was right after all?

IIRC and going by the dates on the pages below, the installer and all
other code changes were before R3.1 (only the README has changed since):

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/releases/3.1/schedule/
https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2016/03/09/qubes-os-3-1-has-been-released/