Alpine Build How?

[Orion Miller]

I think this project is great. I would like to to get it working with Alpine Linux which does have a Xen w/ PVboot fully integrated. I have tried once or twice to begin the build process but the project feels like a mountain of RPMs to work through. Is there any guides on getting Qubes building on a non Fedora/CentOS/RPM based system?

[Orion Miller]

I also should add the Alpine uses MUSL libc not GLibc. It also uses GRsec/PaX not SELinux. I am almost done testing/porting LibreSSL to Alpine for the community to test on there systems.

[fowl...@riseup.net]

Orion,

I starred this post a while ago. I have been busy with school, so sorry I am just replying. Since dom0 is not networked, the security of the Qubes system would probably not receive benefit from a dom0 change unless the new dom0 used reproducible builds w/ multi-signatures (Debian is the furthest along in this regard and I could see the Qubes team going w/ it for Qubes 4 dom0--they mentioned their interest in a trustless system in their most recent roadmap). 

Fedora does not use PIE for everything like Alpine does, but uses it for security critical packages (I'm not sure how to confirm, but I assume/hope this includes Xen and related libraries). Further, it uses fstack-protector-strong w/ GCC.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pax and GrSec only provide Linux kernel hardening, and would do nothing for Xen.

On the other hand, Alpine would make a fantastic addition as a template VM. I really appreciate the categorical approach to bug elimination Pax/GrSec takes and Alpine seems like a great distro (although I have yet to run it myself!). I have a lot of free time on my hands at the moment as an unemployed college grad living at home with his parents :D and would very much be interested in helping you build it as a template if you'd like to work together on this.

Noah

[Orion]

Wooohhoooo. Hit me up.

On Thu, 28 May 2015 00:33:46 -0700 (PDT)
fowl...@riseup.net wrote:

> I starred this post a while ago. I have been busy with school, so
> sorry I am just replying. Since dom0 is not networked, the security
> of the Qubes system would probably not receive benefit from a dom0
> change unless the new dom0 used reproducible builds w/
> multi-signatures (Debian is the furthest along in this regard and I
> could see the Qubes team going w/ it for Qubes 4 dom0--they mentioned
> their interest in a trustless system in their most recent roadmap).

I have plans of eventually utilizing gitian with Alpine in the future.
However there are bigger things on my list of what I want to see
accomplished for Alpine.

> Fedora does not use PIE for everything like Alpine does, but uses it
> for security critical packages (I'm not sure how to confirm, but I
> assume/hope this includes Xen and related libraries). Further, it
> uses fstack-protector-strong w/ GCC.

From what I've checked in the alpine port repository it keeps all of
the stack & other compilation hardening for xen.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pax and GrSec only provide Linux kernel
> hardening, and would do nothing for Xen.

I don't know. Since I don't know how Xen's hypervisor works.

> On the other hand, Alpine would make a fantastic addition as a
> template VM. I really appreciate the categorical approach to bug
> elimination Pax/GrSec takes and Alpine seems like a great distro
> (although I have yet to run it myself!). I have a lot of free time on
> my hands at the moment as an unemployed college grad living at home
> with his parents :D and would very much be interested in helping you
> build it as a template if you'd like to work together on this.

Let's get started. :D

--
keybase.io/systmkor

[fowlslegs zyzzyx]

I found an email address, Gmail w/ username systmkor, on Github which I messaged a few days ago. Maybe you've been busy or otherwise don't really use that address. Let me know if I should contact you elsehow when you see this.

Noah

[Orion]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
fowlslegs zyzzyx <fowl...@riseup.net> wrote:

> I found an email address, Gmail w/ username systmkor, on Github which
> I messaged a few days ago.

That's me. :D

> Maybe you've been busy or otherwise don't really use that address.
> Let me know if I should contact you else how when you see this.

That is my main address. Sorry I've been sick for the past few days.


--
keybase.io/systmkor

[fowlslegs zyzzyx]

No need to apologize. I feel impatient/ rude now.

I'm visiting family in Portland right now, so next week is a better time to get started anyway. Hope you're feeling better by then.

--Noah

[pawspe...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, March 15, 2015 at 4:51:30 AM UTC+1, Orion Miller wrote:

I think this project is great. I would like to to get it working with Alpine Linux which does have a Xen w/ PVboot fully integrated. I have tried once or twice to begin the build process but the project feels like a mountain of RPMs to work through. Is there any guides on getting Qubes building on a non Fedora/CentOS/RPM based system?

Great idea, IMHO, with Alpine as Dom0.... Are there any news yet?

[Noah Vesely]

So I started the very early stages of this project, but was too busy
traveling this summer to really get into it and shortly thereafter I got
my first 'real' job, so I am quite busy now. One fun thing about this is
I've actually made a proposal (won't link it because I know I made some
errors and oversights that I have been meaning to fix) to use Qubes for
a certain application relating to my work (SecureDrop).

For a few reasons I no longer see Alpine as ideal:

* It is making no moves towards reproducibility of packages, which is a
goal I believe for release 4.X of Qubes.

* It uses musl libc (which in many ways is a plus because of minimality
and obscurity), but on the other hand it cannnot be used to compile
certain applications such as Tor Browser and has not been audited as
much as glibc.

* The security features of Alpine will be surpassed by Subgraph OS soon,
if Subgraph has not already done so. Plus, Subgraph is built on
Debian, which is the one distro making real progress toward
reproducible builds.

Thus, I have no plans of continuing the work and would not do so even if
I had the time.