H4 RUST
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Jim T
Jul 17, 2012, 12:47:06 PM7/17/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Hi. I've started a new post because the existing one was getting cluttered.
On my H4 I noticed that there was surface rust on the rear chassis in the engine bay. Lots of Kurust, Hammerite rust killer primer & Hammerite smooth cured that. ( the front chassis is covered with a fine coating of oil so no rust there!).
The chassis rails in the wet area seem sound, (tested with my mk 1 pointed scewdriver ) but the coating is suspect. My usual response would be to spray the cavity with Waxoil but have been told that this is not compatible with fiberglass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Plan B would be to use old engine oil, taking precautions to collect & dispose of the excess.Cheaper but effective, as used on older cars to prevent rust in the distant past.
JimT
jin
Jul 17, 2012, 2:15:02 PM7/17/12
to Quantum Owners Group
hi sorry to hear your corrosion woes
no you cant use waxoyl or indeed anything like next to fiberglass, the
problem is that the fibres that will invariably be exposed on the
rough side will leach fluids down into the substrate by capillary
action this is especially true of waxoyl whose intention is to creep
into crevices, this includes oil / water, visit any marine forum and
you will read countless threads regarding water creeping into the
fibres, ok so in theory if you painted resin onto the rough side you
may well seal it but there is still the problem that waxoyl is quite a
potent chemical, i spent days (literally) scrubbing off the waxoyl o
put on and in my chassis tubes on the spaceframe of my 2+2 for this
very reason, my advice would be to try something else, im unfamiliar
with the structure of the H4 but maybe a wash out with Deox -C to
remove the rust and a coat of por 15 on the steel? yes Deox-c is water
based and you would need months to dry properly but por 15 adheres
very well to both bare steel and fiberglass,
just my advice
good luck
no you cant use waxoyl or indeed anything like next to fiberglass, the
problem is that the fibres that will invariably be exposed on the
rough side will leach fluids down into the substrate by capillary
action this is especially true of waxoyl whose intention is to creep
into crevices, this includes oil / water, visit any marine forum and
you will read countless threads regarding water creeping into the
fibres, ok so in theory if you painted resin onto the rough side you
may well seal it but there is still the problem that waxoyl is quite a
potent chemical, i spent days (literally) scrubbing off the waxoyl o
put on and in my chassis tubes on the spaceframe of my 2+2 for this
very reason, my advice would be to try something else, im unfamiliar
with the structure of the H4 but maybe a wash out with Deox -C to
remove the rust and a coat of por 15 on the steel? yes Deox-c is water
based and you would need months to dry properly but por 15 adheres
very well to both bare steel and fiberglass,
just my advice
good luck
Susan and Martin Scott
Jul 17, 2012, 4:22:55 PM7/17/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
From experience of using Hammerite or Hammerite
smooth I'd be very wary of these products - I have found that because they are
so brittle that even the ambient temperature change can lead to microscopic
cracks which let in water. The evidence of this is the revealation of bad rust
when the paint cracks off in layers in a couple of years!!
I have successfully used zinc phosphate primer
(just brush on) followed by undercoat and either satin black top coat or even
Dulux Weathshield Gloss - again all brushed on (which of course gives a slightly
thicker finish than spraying) . This gives a soft-ish flexible and very durable
finish which is easy to apply and lasts for years. As an alternative a
polturethane single pack gloss will also give a good durable finish (after
the primer and undercoat of course).
Martin
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IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
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jin
Jul 17, 2012, 5:02:16 PM7/17/12
to Quantum Owners Group
second that, hammerite is poor, especially by todays standards
On Jul 17, 9:22 pm, "Susan and Martin Scott"
On Jul 17, 9:22 pm, "Susan and Martin Scott"
<susanandmar...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
> From experience of using Hammerite or Hammerite smooth I'd be very wary of these products - I have found that because they are so brittle that even the ambient temperature change can lead to microscopic cracks which let in water. The evidence of this is the revealation of bad rust when the paint cracks off in layers in a couple of years!!
> I have successfully used zinc phosphate primer (just brush on) followed by undercoat and either satin black top coat or even Dulux Weathshield Gloss - again all brushed on (which of course gives a slightly thicker finish than spraying) . This gives a soft-ish flexible and very durable finish which is easy to apply and lasts for years. As an alternative a polturethane single pack gloss will also give a good durable finish (after the primer and undercoat of course).
> Martin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim T
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:47 PM
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] H4 RUST
>
> Hi. I've started a new post because the existing one was getting cluttered.
> On my H4 I noticed that there was surface rust on the rear chassis in the engine bay. Lots of Kurust, Hammerite rust killer primer & Hammerite smooth cured that. ( the front chassis is covered with a fine coating of oil so no rust there!).
> The chassis rails in the wet area seem sound, (tested with my mk 1 pointed scewdriver ) but the coating is suspect. My usual response would be to spray the cavity with Waxoil but have been told that this is not compatible with fiberglass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Plan B would be to use old engine oil, taking precautions to collect & dispose of the excess.Cheaper but effective, as used on older cars to prevent rust in the distant past.
> JimT
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
> From experience of using Hammerite or Hammerite smooth I'd be very wary of these products - I have found that because they are so brittle that even the ambient temperature change can lead to microscopic cracks which let in water. The evidence of this is the revealation of bad rust when the paint cracks off in layers in a couple of years!!
> I have successfully used zinc phosphate primer (just brush on) followed by undercoat and either satin black top coat or even Dulux Weathshield Gloss - again all brushed on (which of course gives a slightly thicker finish than spraying) . This gives a soft-ish flexible and very durable finish which is easy to apply and lasts for years. As an alternative a polturethane single pack gloss will also give a good durable finish (after the primer and undercoat of course).
> Martin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim T
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 5:47 PM
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] H4 RUST
>
> Hi. I've started a new post because the existing one was getting cluttered.
> On my H4 I noticed that there was surface rust on the rear chassis in the engine bay. Lots of Kurust, Hammerite rust killer primer & Hammerite smooth cured that. ( the front chassis is covered with a fine coating of oil so no rust there!).
> The chassis rails in the wet area seem sound, (tested with my mk 1 pointed scewdriver ) but the coating is suspect. My usual response would be to spray the cavity with Waxoil but have been told that this is not compatible with fiberglass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Plan B would be to use old engine oil, taking precautions to collect & dispose of the excess.Cheaper but effective, as used on older cars to prevent rust in the distant past.
> JimT
>
> --
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> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
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>
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
jon jackson
Jul 17, 2012, 6:05:02 PM7/17/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
As I am an old f**t I used Hammerite in the sixties and it was a fine
product however I would not use it now as it is brittle and next to useless.
A good old zinc based primer followed with ordinary gloss paint is pretty
good as recommended by Susan and Martin.
product however I would not use it now as it is brittle and next to useless.
A good old zinc based primer followed with ordinary gloss paint is pretty
good as recommended by Susan and Martin.
Michael...@aol.com
Jul 17, 2012, 3:13:15 PM7/17/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
In a message dated 17/07/2012 19:15:04 GMT Daylight Time,
jinm...@btinternet.com writes:
a coat of por 15 on the steel
I'm not familiar with this. Can you tell me a bit more about it. Deox
is also a bit of a mystery?
Michael
Andrew Owen
Jul 17, 2012, 1:38:00 PM7/17/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
I have read that Waxoil is not compatible with glass fibre, but I understand that Dinitrol products are and generally seem to be held in high regard, but I cannot confirm these points.
Cheers
Andrew
--
Jim Hearne
Jul 18, 2012, 3:47:32 AM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
This is a subject that has been discussed long ago.
Some say Waxoil isn’t compatible with Fibreglass, others say no
problem.
I know i used it all over my car and I’ve not seen any issues anywhere
yet.
Even on screws threaded directly into the fibreglass (tapped holes, not
self tappers).
I’m assuming that once the solvent has evaporated the wax is fairly
inert.
Jim
jin
Jul 18, 2012, 8:58:43 AM7/18/12
to Quantum Owners Group
hi Deox is a powdered substance you mix with water (yes dont say it)
to immerse your rusted items into, they do a thick gel version also, i
used this extensively during my 2 rebuilds and will not consider
anything else (except maybe blast cleaning) to remove rust, it really
does dissolve all rust right out the pits so the steel looks like the
surface of the moon
POR 15 is a one component polyurethane coating which does everything
your lead to believe hammerite does and loads more
in short it dries rock hard and cant easily be removed, ive tried to
remove it with blast cleaning (glass) and gave up by taking a grinder
to it, it really is incredible stuff
http://quantumforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=builddiaries&action=display&thread=25&page=31
second post down shows some pictures, ive now done most of my space
frame in it and the rest of the brackets also
just don’t get it on your head cos you will look very odd for a few
weeks, it just wont come off
to immerse your rusted items into, they do a thick gel version also, i
used this extensively during my 2 rebuilds and will not consider
anything else (except maybe blast cleaning) to remove rust, it really
does dissolve all rust right out the pits so the steel looks like the
surface of the moon
POR 15 is a one component polyurethane coating which does everything
your lead to believe hammerite does and loads more
in short it dries rock hard and cant easily be removed, ive tried to
remove it with blast cleaning (glass) and gave up by taking a grinder
to it, it really is incredible stuff
http://quantumforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=builddiaries&action=display&thread=25&page=31
second post down shows some pictures, ive now done most of my space
frame in it and the rest of the brackets also
just don’t get it on your head cos you will look very odd for a few
weeks, it just wont come off
On Jul 17, 8:13 pm, MichaelHughe...@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 17/07/2012 19:15:04 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> In a message dated 17/07/2012 19:15:04 GMT Daylight Time,
>
Jim Hearne
Jul 18, 2012, 9:14:42 AM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
That was the reason i bought a 2+2, i was feed up with my metal cars going
rusty.
The 2+2 is fairly IMO safe as long as you sort out the pockets behind the
door hinges which can leak water into the sill area.
And don’t have any leaks around the petrol filler pipe either on the
outside or under that car.
The only bit that can rust is the subframe which can be removed,
sandblasted and galvanised if you wish.
The H4 is a different question because of the way the chassis rails come
through the body in various places.
The paint comes off the chassis with the fibreglass and the water gets to
the bare steel.
I asked original Quantum about separating the floor and body from the
chassis and they told me not to even attempt it.
The chassis bonded into the body halves in the moulds and without the mould
to keep things straight it will distort all over the place.
This wasn’t going to stop me trying it (with suitable jigging) but an
unfinished kit turned up with no rust as it had always been garaged.
I may well dissect the other H4 body from chassis just to see how it all
goes together as i’ve still got to do some extensive chassis mods to fit the 4
wheel drive and the Mk5 Fiesta dash and aircon system.
I will be powder coating everything i can remove (i know there are people
on here who are against powder coating) and probably use rubber flat roofing
compound to paint the chassis i can’t remove.
Jim
Hi,
All,
This is an interesting and rather concerning thread!
One of my motivations for going Quantum was the fabled banishment from critical areas of the insatiable tin worm, yet now it seems that the little bugger finds his way in anyway. Worse still, once in his activities are pretty much hidden from sight save the evidence of a little judicious prodding through the drainage holes.
I'm tempted to err on the side of caution and apply sensible amounts of anti-rust primer, followed by a flexible gloss paint (an approach recommended by Spartan years ago for their Trekka chassis, with the use of "Hammerite" discouraged for just the reasons described in this thread).
However, I've not got a clue as to how to get at the chassis rails, as they're sandwiched away. What approaches have people used here? Can the floor be unbonded for access then re-bonded? That sounds like it'd be a big job . .. ..
Cheers!
Steve.
This is an interesting and rather concerning thread!
One of my motivations for going Quantum was the fabled banishment from critical areas of the insatiable tin worm, yet now it seems that the little bugger finds his way in anyway. Worse still, once in his activities are pretty much hidden from sight save the evidence of a little judicious prodding through the drainage holes.
I'm tempted to err on the side of caution and apply sensible amounts of anti-rust primer, followed by a flexible gloss paint (an approach recommended by Spartan years ago for their Trekka chassis, with the use of "Hammerite" discouraged for just the reasons described in this thread).
However, I've not got a clue as to how to get at the chassis rails, as they're sandwiched away. What approaches have people used here? Can the floor be unbonded for access then re-bonded? That sounds like it'd be a big job . .. ..
Cheers!
Steve.
--
jin
Jul 18, 2012, 11:01:07 AM7/18/12
to Quantum Owners Group
i agree with Jim
the 2+2 does seem to be the better bet if you can seal out the leaks,
and the sub frame should be viewed as a removable item for future
corrosion repairs, the H4 seems pretty bonkers in the respect of the
construction yet very clever at the same time, the problem being the
close proximity of the fibreglass to the steel, you can just slosh
waxoyl about like you would with a tin car, shame the 2 halves cant be
separated more readily
On Jul 18, 2:14 pm, "Jim Hearne" <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> That was the reason i bought a 2+2, i was feed up with my metal cars going rusty.
> The 2+2 is fairly IMO safe as long as you sort out the pockets behind the door hinges which can leak water into the sill area.
> And don’t have any leaks around the petrol filler pipe either on the outside or under that car.
> The only bit that can rust is the subframe which can be removed, sandblasted and galvanised if you wish.
>
> The H4 is a different question because of the way the chassis rails come through the body in various places.
> The paint comes off the chassis with the fibreglass and the water gets to the bare steel.
>
> I asked original Quantum about separating the floor and body from the chassis and they told me not to even attempt it.
> The chassis bonded into the body halves in the moulds and without the mould to keep things straight it will distort all over the place.
> This wasn’t going to stop me trying it (with suitable jigging) but an unfinished kit turned up with no rust as it had always been garaged.
> I may well dissect the other H4 body from chassis just to see how it all goes together as i’ve still got to do some extensive chassis mods to fit the 4 wheel drive and the Mk5 Fiesta dash and aircon system.
>
> I will be powder coating everything i can remove (i know there are people on here who are against powder coating) and probably use rubber flat roofing compound to paint the chassis i can’t remove.
>
> Jim
>
> From: The Blue Pig
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:59 PM
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
>
> Hi, All,
>
> This is an interesting and rather concerning thread!
>
> One of my motivations for going Quantum was the fabled banishment from critical areas of the insatiable tin worm, yet now it seems that the little bugger finds his way in anyway. Worse still, once in his activities are pretty much hidden from sight save the evidence of a little judicious prodding through the drainage holes.
>
> I'm tempted to err on the side of caution and apply sensible amounts of anti-rust primer, followed by a flexible gloss paint (an approach recommended by Spartan years ago for their Trekka chassis, with the use of "Hammerite" discouraged for just the reasons described in this thread).
>
> However, I've not got a clue as to how to get at the chassis rails, as they're sandwiched away. What approaches have people used here? Can the floor be unbonded for access then re-bonded? That sounds like it'd be a big job . . .
>
the 2+2 does seem to be the better bet if you can seal out the leaks,
and the sub frame should be viewed as a removable item for future
corrosion repairs, the H4 seems pretty bonkers in the respect of the
construction yet very clever at the same time, the problem being the
close proximity of the fibreglass to the steel, you can just slosh
waxoyl about like you would with a tin car, shame the 2 halves cant be
separated more readily
On Jul 18, 2:14 pm, "Jim Hearne" <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> That was the reason i bought a 2+2, i was feed up with my metal cars going rusty.
> The 2+2 is fairly IMO safe as long as you sort out the pockets behind the door hinges which can leak water into the sill area.
> And don’t have any leaks around the petrol filler pipe either on the outside or under that car.
> The only bit that can rust is the subframe which can be removed, sandblasted and galvanised if you wish.
>
> The H4 is a different question because of the way the chassis rails come through the body in various places.
> The paint comes off the chassis with the fibreglass and the water gets to the bare steel.
>
> I asked original Quantum about separating the floor and body from the chassis and they told me not to even attempt it.
> The chassis bonded into the body halves in the moulds and without the mould to keep things straight it will distort all over the place.
> This wasn’t going to stop me trying it (with suitable jigging) but an unfinished kit turned up with no rust as it had always been garaged.
> I may well dissect the other H4 body from chassis just to see how it all goes together as i’ve still got to do some extensive chassis mods to fit the 4 wheel drive and the Mk5 Fiesta dash and aircon system.
>
> I will be powder coating everything i can remove (i know there are people on here who are against powder coating) and probably use rubber flat roofing compound to paint the chassis i can’t remove.
>
> Jim
>
> From: The Blue Pig
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:59 PM
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
>
> Hi, All,
>
> This is an interesting and rather concerning thread!
>
> One of my motivations for going Quantum was the fabled banishment from critical areas of the insatiable tin worm, yet now it seems that the little bugger finds his way in anyway. Worse still, once in his activities are pretty much hidden from sight save the evidence of a little judicious prodding through the drainage holes.
>
> I'm tempted to err on the side of caution and apply sensible amounts of anti-rust primer, followed by a flexible gloss paint (an approach recommended by Spartan years ago for their Trekka chassis, with the use of "Hammerite" discouraged for just the reasons described in this thread).
>
> However, I've not got a clue as to how to get at the chassis rails, as they're sandwiched away. What approaches have people used here? Can the floor be unbonded for access then re-bonded? That sounds like it'd be a big job . . .
>
> Cheers!
>
> Steve.
>
> On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 17:47:06 UTC+1, Jim T wrote:
>
> Hi. I've started a new post because the existing one was getting cluttered.
> On my H4 I noticed that there was surface rust on the rear chassis in the engine bay. Lots of Kurust, Hammerite rust killer primer & Hammerite smooth cured that. ( the front chassis is covered with a fine coating of oil so no rust there!).
> The chassis rails in the wet area seem sound, (tested with my mk 1 pointed scewdriver ) but the coating is suspect. My usual response would be to spray the cavity with Waxoil but have been told that this is not compatible with fiberglass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Plan B would be to use old engine oil, taking precautions to collect & dispose of the excess.Cheaper but effective, as used on older cars to prevent rust in the distant past.
> JimT
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
>
> Steve.
>
> On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 17:47:06 UTC+1, Jim T wrote:
>
> Hi. I've started a new post because the existing one was getting cluttered.
> On my H4 I noticed that there was surface rust on the rear chassis in the engine bay. Lots of Kurust, Hammerite rust killer primer & Hammerite smooth cured that. ( the front chassis is covered with a fine coating of oil so no rust there!).
> The chassis rails in the wet area seem sound, (tested with my mk 1 pointed scewdriver ) but the coating is suspect. My usual response would be to spray the cavity with Waxoil but have been told that this is not compatible with fiberglass. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Plan B would be to use old engine oil, taking precautions to collect & dispose of the excess.Cheaper but effective, as used on older cars to prevent rust in the distant past.
> JimT
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
> To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
Jim Hearne
Jul 18, 2012, 11:07:41 AM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
If they had galvanised the H4 chassis then it probably would have been fine.
Even if the powder coating had actually been powder coating it would still
have probably been ok.
But, the blank paint that was used sticks better to the fibreglass than it
does to the steel with the expected results.
The paint on the subframe on my 2+2 had rust coming through before it left
the garage during the build.
Even more annoying as when i ordered the kit i asked for the subframe not to
be bonded to the bulkhead so i could get it galvanised.
It came bonded on and i was recommended not to try removing it, done it on a
couple of other 2+2's since though.
Mine luckily is still non rusty after it's in situe sanding down and
respray, yes, using smooth hammerite.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: jin
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:01 PM
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
i agree with Jim
the 2+2 does seem to be the better bet if you can seal out the leaks,
and the sub frame should be viewed as a removable item for future
corrosion repairs, the H4 seems pretty bonkers in the respect of the
construction yet very clever at the same time, the problem being the
close proximity of the fibreglass to the steel, you can just slosh
waxoyl about like you would with a tin car, shame the 2 halves cant be
separated more readily
On Jul 18, 2:14 pm, "Jim Hearne" <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> That was the reason i bought a 2+2, i was feed up with my metal cars going
> rusty.
> The 2+2 is fairly IMO safe as long as you sort out the pockets behind the
> door hinges which can leak water into the sill area.
> And don�t have any leaks around the petrol filler pipe either on the
Even if the powder coating had actually been powder coating it would still
have probably been ok.
But, the blank paint that was used sticks better to the fibreglass than it
does to the steel with the expected results.
The paint on the subframe on my 2+2 had rust coming through before it left
the garage during the build.
Even more annoying as when i ordered the kit i asked for the subframe not to
be bonded to the bulkhead so i could get it galvanised.
It came bonded on and i was recommended not to try removing it, done it on a
couple of other 2+2's since though.
Mine luckily is still non rusty after it's in situe sanding down and
respray, yes, using smooth hammerite.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: jin
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:01 PM
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
i agree with Jim
the 2+2 does seem to be the better bet if you can seal out the leaks,
and the sub frame should be viewed as a removable item for future
corrosion repairs, the H4 seems pretty bonkers in the respect of the
construction yet very clever at the same time, the problem being the
close proximity of the fibreglass to the steel, you can just slosh
waxoyl about like you would with a tin car, shame the 2 halves cant be
separated more readily
On Jul 18, 2:14 pm, "Jim Hearne" <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> That was the reason i bought a 2+2, i was feed up with my metal cars going
> rusty.
> The 2+2 is fairly IMO safe as long as you sort out the pockets behind the
> door hinges which can leak water into the sill area.
> outside or under that car.
> The only bit that can rust is the subframe which can be removed,
> sandblasted and galvanised if you wish.
>
> The H4 is a different question because of the way the chassis rails come
> through the body in various places.
> The paint comes off the chassis with the fibreglass and the water gets to
> the bare steel.
>
> I asked original Quantum about separating the floor and body from the
> chassis and they told me not to even attempt it.
> The chassis bonded into the body halves in the moulds and without the
> mould to keep things straight it will distort all over the place.
> This wasn�t going to stop me trying it (with suitable jigging) but an
> The only bit that can rust is the subframe which can be removed,
> sandblasted and galvanised if you wish.
>
> The H4 is a different question because of the way the chassis rails come
> through the body in various places.
> The paint comes off the chassis with the fibreglass and the water gets to
> the bare steel.
>
> I asked original Quantum about separating the floor and body from the
> chassis and they told me not to even attempt it.
> The chassis bonded into the body halves in the moulds and without the
> mould to keep things straight it will distort all over the place.
> unfinished kit turned up with no rust as it had always been garaged.
> I may well dissect the other H4 body from chassis just to see how it all
> goes together as i�ve still got to do some extensive chassis mods to fit
> I may well dissect the other H4 body from chassis just to see how it all
> the 4 wheel drive and the Mk5 Fiesta dash and aircon system.
>
> I will be powder coating everything i can remove (i know there are people
> on here who are against powder coating) and probably use rubber flat
> roofing compound to paint the chassis i can�t remove.
>
> I will be powder coating everything i can remove (i know there are people
> on here who are against powder coating) and probably use rubber flat
Jim T
Jul 18, 2012, 3:24:28 PM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Fortunately I do not have a corrosion problem yet. I just want to keep it that way. Whilst I have not had any problems with Hammerite in the past, I wonder if it could be lack of preparation. I tend to remove all loose rust, kill any solid rust with a rust killer, apply two coats of anti-rust primer, & two or three coats of Hammerite, allowing each coat to dry, but not cure. I have found that no coating will stop flaking rust.
Because of my past involvement with sailing I know a little about osmosis with fiberglass. Boats stored ashore seem to suffer far less than boats stored afloat but neither as a matter of course. This is fairly obvious because the sea seldom drys out so the fiberglass is always wet. As with cars the quality of the fiberglass work varied greatly between builders. So whilst there would be some absorption of water in an H4, it would only occur whilst the fiberglass was wet. Waxoil is liquid when applied, but dries to the consistency of bacon fat ( but doesn't smell as nice) so osmosis would appear to be minimal & the coating stop any more water absorption by the fiberglass & rusting of the steel frame.. The use of Waxoil would therefore appear to be the lesser of two evils.
No doubt someone with a greater knowledge of osmosis will correct me, but if the problem is not a chemical reaction Waxoil ( or it's equivalent) would seem to be the way to go.
Jimt
On Tuesday, 17 July 2012 17:47:06 UTC+1, Jim T wrote:
Jim Hearne
Jul 18, 2012, 5:00:24 PM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
A picture of the H4 chassis:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/h4_chassis.jpg
Another picture:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/h4_chassis2.jpg
Some engine bay rust:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0863.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0864.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0865.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0866.JPG
Rust in the rear lower corners below the rear screen area.
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001149.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001150.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001151.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001152.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001153.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001154.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001155.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001157.JPG
Jim
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/h4_chassis.jpg
Another picture:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/h4_chassis2.jpg
Some engine bay rust:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0863.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0864.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0865.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/100_0866.JPG
Rust in the rear lower corners below the rear screen area.
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001149.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001150.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001151.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001152.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001153.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001154.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001155.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/h4/P0001157.JPG
Jim
Jim Hearne
Jul 18, 2012, 5:18:53 PM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Some engine bay rust on a different H4
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0257.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0264.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0265.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0272.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0273.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPG
Rust from under the front wheel arch:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0261.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0262.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0263.JPG
These were taken of a H4 7 years ago, i treated it at the time, i don't
know whats it's like now.
Jim
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0257.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0264.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0265.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0272.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0273.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPG
Rust from under the front wheel arch:
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0261.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0262.JPG
http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0263.JPG
These were taken of a H4 7 years ago, i treated it at the time, i don't
know whats it's like now.
Jim
jin
Jul 18, 2012, 5:34:11 PM7/18/12
to Quantum Owners Group
eeekkk
im never moaning about the 2+2 structure again
On Jul 18, 10:18 pm, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> Some engine bay rust on a different H4
>
> http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0257.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0264.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0265.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0272.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0273.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0258.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0259.JPG
im never moaning about the 2+2 structure again
On Jul 18, 10:18 pm, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> Some engine bay rust on a different H4
>
>
> Rust from under the front wheel arch:
>
> http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0261.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0262.JPGhttp://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0263.JPG
> Rust from under the front wheel arch:
>
Gary
Jul 18, 2012, 6:20:02 PM7/18/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Our old un Q118 or 9 i think was sound in the engine bay - daily runner
10K a year left outside mostly.
The rear had loads of foam panels in so would have hidden some in the
rear. but none that ever concerned me.
2 p
10K a year left outside mostly.
The rear had loads of foam panels in so would have hidden some in the
rear. but none that ever concerned me.
2 p
jin
Jul 19, 2012, 6:27:55 AM7/19/12
to Quantum Owners Group
i cant find much conclusive evidence regarding what waxoyl does or
does not do to fibreglass but the manufacturers say not to use it on
rubber or plastics, and quite a few owners on the Lotus forums say its
a no no also but again cant quite substantiate it either
just one thing
waxoyl does dissolve and soften sikaflex, so id not use it on the H4
if any of it is bonded with that
On Jul 18, 11:20 pm, Gary <gary_brokensh...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Our old un Q118 or 9 i think was sound in the engine bay - daily runner
> 10K a year left outside mostly.
> The rear had loads of foam panels in so would have hidden some in the
> rear. but none that ever concerned me.
>
> 2 p
>
> On 18/07/2012 22:34, jin wrote:
>
>
>
> > eeekkk
> > im never moaning about the 2+2 structure again
>
> > On Jul 18, 10:18 pm, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> >> Some engine bay rust on a different H4
>
> >>http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0257.JPGhttp://www.quant...
>
> - Show quoted text -
does not do to fibreglass but the manufacturers say not to use it on
rubber or plastics, and quite a few owners on the Lotus forums say its
a no no also but again cant quite substantiate it either
just one thing
waxoyl does dissolve and soften sikaflex, so id not use it on the H4
if any of it is bonded with that
On Jul 18, 11:20 pm, Gary <gary_brokensh...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Our old un Q118 or 9 i think was sound in the engine bay - daily runner
> 10K a year left outside mostly.
> The rear had loads of foam panels in so would have hidden some in the
> rear. but none that ever concerned me.
>
> 2 p
>
> On 18/07/2012 22:34, jin wrote:
>
>
>
> > eeekkk
> > im never moaning about the 2+2 structure again
>
> > On Jul 18, 10:18 pm, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
> >> Some engine bay rust on a different H4
>
>
> >> Rust from under the front wheel arch:
>
> >>http://www.quantums.info/pictures/eammon/100_0261.JPGhttp://www.quant...
> >> Rust from under the front wheel arch:
>
>
> >> These were taken of a H4 7 years ago, i treated it at the time, i don't
> >> know whats it's like now.
>
> >> Jim- Hide quoted text -
> >> These were taken of a H4 7 years ago, i treated it at the time, i don't
> >> know whats it's like now.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
bill green
Jul 19, 2012, 6:35:38 AM7/19/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Must say the chassis looks a lot more robust than I imagined, but the pics don;t show the thickness of the steel used and given time and the right conditions the tin worm will munch its way through, somehow finding the most critical areas.
Bill
Bill
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:00:24 +0100
> From: j...@quantums.info
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
> From: j...@quantums.info
> To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: H4 RUST
Jim Hearne
Jul 19, 2012, 6:39:37 AM7/19/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
I’d say all the chassis tubes are at least 2mm wall and the bigger are
probably 3mm.
Jim
Jim Hearne
Jul 19, 2012, 6:46:48 AM7/19/12
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
I wasn’t trying to scare people, just show where to look for possible
rust.
If anybody has any other pictures of a bare chassis please let me have a
copy.
Many thanks,
Jim
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