Lowering springs for my 2+2.
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calum mcpherson
Mar 29, 2017, 4:52:01 PM3/29/17
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I've recently changed my wheels 15" with 195-50-15 tyres to the correct set up 14" with 185-55-14, and my 2+2 looks like a Land Rover.
I was going to change springs anyway, but now have brought this job forward as not looking as I want.
I understand that the manual states 'Quantum red springs' for front and Fiesta mk2 1100 springs for rear, however when looking at lowering springs, most seem to be a standardised Fiesta mk2 set up , most covering full range excluding XR2 !!!!
Anyone got any experience with lowering springs , any recommendations would be great .
Car has std. XR2 engine set-up, thanks.
Jim Hearne
Mar 29, 2017, 5:06:38 PM3/29/17
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Unless you are only travelling on good A roads and not going over
speed bumps you will find lowering springs on a 2+2 rather a pain.
The 2+2 already sits lower than the donor Fiesta for a given setup, the XR2 was around 20mm lower and lowered XR2 spec springs will be another 30 or 40mm at least.
That's why Quantum recommended their red springs at the front and 1100 ((taller than XR2).
As a first step i would just try standard XR2 spec springs, not lowered ones.
One thing to watch out for, depending on the age of your 2+2, the early ones (up till past chassis number 99 at least) had rear spring and shock absorber mounts on the body that were about 60mm too high, Quantum fixed this with spacers on the top of the shocks and extra tall rear springs.
If your car is one of these then you will need to compensate for that on whatever rear springs you get.
My 2+2 has coilovers on the front and standard XR2 rear springs, but mine has the high rear mounts.
So i've effectively lowered it around 80mm from the Quantum intended spec, it is too low, i have to drive across most speed bumps at an angle and even then they hit the engine crossmember or exhaust.
And i can't use it to go to work as the uneven B roads cause similar problems.
Jim
The 2+2 already sits lower than the donor Fiesta for a given setup, the XR2 was around 20mm lower and lowered XR2 spec springs will be another 30 or 40mm at least.
That's why Quantum recommended their red springs at the front and 1100 ((taller than XR2).
As a first step i would just try standard XR2 spec springs, not lowered ones.
One thing to watch out for, depending on the age of your 2+2, the early ones (up till past chassis number 99 at least) had rear spring and shock absorber mounts on the body that were about 60mm too high, Quantum fixed this with spacers on the top of the shocks and extra tall rear springs.
If your car is one of these then you will need to compensate for that on whatever rear springs you get.
My 2+2 has coilovers on the front and standard XR2 rear springs, but mine has the high rear mounts.
So i've effectively lowered it around 80mm from the Quantum intended spec, it is too low, i have to drive across most speed bumps at an angle and even then they hit the engine crossmember or exhaust.
And i can't use it to go to work as the uneven B roads cause similar problems.
Jim
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Tom Walker
Mar 29, 2017, 11:33:33 PM3/29/17
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I played around with lowered and uprated springs on mine (16" wheels) and ended up going back to standard xr2 on the front and standard fiesta on the back, but on the back i cut out half a turn to lower it a small amount.
You could probably lower the front in the same way, but be careful as it is a lot more difficult to put the spring back together again if you take too much off. ;-)
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calum mcpherson
Mar 29, 2017, 11:33:46 PM3/29/17
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Thanks for the prompt reply Jim, I haven't a clue on the rear mounts, is there a rough length of spring that would indicate which I have at rear or front for that matter ?
I don't want to be buying and fitting std. XR2 springs only to find I still have the same problem, but possibly a harsh ride too, as I have read that std. XR2 springs are too harsh for rear anyway.
I have attached a pic (I think), with new wheels fitted to give you an idea of car, Thanks.
Calum.
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 5:01:15 AM3/30/17
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Too long since i looked at one of the springs to remember the length.
But, a picture of the area around the top suspension mount in the boot
should tell me which version it is.
Or, what is the chassis number ?, mine is 99 and has the high mounts.
Jim
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 8:14:39 AM3/30/17
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Attached rough diagram giving sizes and pic of boot showing strut top, measured rear spring sitting unladen at about 250mm.
Calum
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calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 8:14:45 AM3/30/17
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Don't fancy cutting springs, not an option to me thanks.
On Thursday, 30 March 2017 04:33:33 UTC+1, Tom Walker wrote:
I played around with lowered and uprated springs on mine (16" wheels) and ended up going back to standard xr2 on the front and standard fiesta on the back, but on the back i cut out half a turn to lower it a small amount.You could probably lower the front in the same way, but be careful as it is a lot more difficult to put the spring back together again if you take too much off. ;-)
On 29 Mar 2017 9:52 pm, "calum mcpherson" <calma...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
--I've recently changed my wheels 15" with 195-50-15 tyres to the correct set up 14" with 185-55-14, and my 2+2 looks like a Land Rover.I was going to change springs anyway, but now have brought this job forward as not looking as I want.I understand that the manual states 'Quantum red springs' for front and Fiesta mk2 1100 springs for rear, however when looking at lowering springs, most seem to be a standardised Fiesta mk2 set up , most covering full range excluding XR2 !!!!Anyone got any experience with lowering springs , any recommendations would be great .Car has std. XR2 engine set-up, thanks.
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Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 8:23:17 AM3/30/17
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From: calum mcpherson
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Lowering springs for my
2+2.
Afraid i’m pretty sure that’s the higher rear spring and shock mounts.
To be sure, check at the top of the rear shock, you should find an extension screwed to it.
They used specific Quantum rear springs to make up the extra length.
I’m not sure why the early 2+2 were like this, i guess they did the moulds and then realised the car was just too low to be practical.
The front end they could change by modifying the spaceframe, the rear had to wait until they modified the moulds.
Jim
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 8:36:23 AM3/30/17
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Put my hand up at side of shock, and does appear to be some sort of spacer / extension at top. Thinking about it, surely if spring length is reduced this would allow drop required (approx. 35mm) as sizes on diagram are with car unladen (does drop approx. 25mm when sitting in car). I presume as long as new spring weight is correct would still have same travel with lower wheel gap ?
Oh the joys of kit cars.
Thanks
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 13:23:14
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 8:42:46 AM3/30/17
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Pretty sure the spacer on the shock is somewhere around 50 or 60mm,
assuming the spring is the same amount longer than standard you would be
lowering the rear about that by 50 or 60mm by fitting standard non XR2 springs,
which may be a little low.
You’d also need to find something to match at the front.
I think i have the extensions at home, will measure one tonight if i
remember.
Can’t measure the 2+2 ride height to compare with yours as it’s currently
living at my parents while i slowly do the saloon.
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 8:57:46 AM3/30/17
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Thanks again Jim for input, any further info would be very useful.
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 13:42:41
Susan and Martin Scott
Mar 30, 2017, 9:57:19 AM3/30/17
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Many years ago I got some special springs made
up (not for a Q) by 'sheffield spring co' - I don't know if they're still
around, but one of the best cmpanies I've ever dealt with, and reasonable
price.
Martin
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calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 10:27:24 AM3/30/17
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I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Susan and Martin Scott <susanan...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk>
Sent: 30 March 2017 14:57:17
Sent: 30 March 2017 14:57:17
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 2:41:09 PM3/30/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Info so far may help others..
Rear Springs.. std. Fiesta...104mm diameter....307mm length (based on average of 4 makes)
Rear Springs.. XR2 mk2.......105mm diameter....265mm length (as above)
Front Springs..std. Fiesta...109mm diameter....307mm length (as above)
Front Springs..XR2 mk2.......110mm diameter....285mm length (as above)
XR2 based springs were harder to get info. on, but at least it's a start.
Rear Springs.. std. Fiesta...104mm diameter....307mm length (based on average of 4 makes)
Rear Springs.. XR2 mk2.......105mm diameter....265mm length (as above)
Front Springs..std. Fiesta...109mm diameter....307mm length (as above)
Front Springs..XR2 mk2.......110mm diameter....285mm length (as above)
XR2 based springs were harder to get info. on, but at least it's a start.
Calum
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 2:43:27 PM3/30/17
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I just measured the Quantum rear shock spacers from my 2+2 and they
do increase the length by 50mm
I'm guessing the Quantum rear springs were also 50mm longer.
Jim
I'm guessing the Quantum rear springs were also 50mm longer.
Jim
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 2:49:20 PM3/30/17
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The non XR2 springs will be softer so they would compress more with
the same (near enough) weight of the car.
So the difference when fitted to the car would be less than the difference uncompressed.
Jim
So the difference when fitted to the car would be less than the difference uncompressed.
Jim
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calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 2:51:59 PM3/30/17
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The length of shock being increased by the spacer will surely only be for the extended length of the strut mount and not have any bearing on the spring length as spring sits between 2 fixed points on axle & body ? I have been thinking about this and doing diagrams all day to get my head round this, convinced I'm right, maybe.
Does anyone know the length of the 'Quantum' spec. spring for fronts ?
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 19:42:40
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 2:55:11 PM3/30/17
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Have taken that into account Jim, thanks again.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 19:48:44
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my 2+2.
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my 2+2.
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Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 2:56:54 PM3/30/17
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Both the rear spring seat area and the rear shock mount on the body
were too high on the early 2+2's
The shock had the extension and the special rear springs were made that were longer.
You are correct that the spring isn't fitted around the shock but the distance between the spring mount on the axle and the seat on the body is too big.
Jim
The shock had the extension and the special rear springs were made that were longer.
You are correct that the spring isn't fitted around the shock but the distance between the spring mount on the axle and the seat on the body is too big.
Jim
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 3:05:36 PM3/30/17
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Some info from 2008 thread.
Thanks guys, so it does look like my Pi springs have dropped the ride-height by about 25-30mm. I shall now keep a look out on ebay for some XR2 springs... Cheers, Tom -----Original Message----- From: quantu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:quantu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT CRAIG Sent: 06 August 2008 19:28 To: quantu...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Perennial spring question Mine are also approx 125mm and I don't think the car looks too high and in my opinion looks ok. Ride height is down to personal preference but I feel that my set up is a good compromise. I haven't managed a track day yet, so can't say whether it will be any good in that environment (I suspect not) but it's good on the road. http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/111/3515/3515picgallery.htm Bob Craig (Q2-267) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Haworth" <andy.h...@gmail.com> To: <quantu...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:52 PM Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Perennial spring question I've just measured mine, and I'm 99% sure I have the Quantum Red springs. 125mm between the top and bottom cups I do know I have the 1.1 rears, and the car sits up a bit at the front http://www.flickr.com/photos/23204281@N02/2674048045/sizes/l/ I'm on 185/60/14's -----Original Message----- From: quantu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:quantu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bobbyc...@tiscali.co.uk Sent: 06 August 2008 13:39 To: quantu...@googlegroups.com Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Perennial spring question Tom, Yeh, they do look a bit short. I'll try to measure mine tonight. Bob Craig (Q2-2167)
----Original Message---- From: tom....@virgin.net Date: 06/08/2008 9:37 To: <quantu...@googlegroups.com> Subj: [Quantum Owners] Re: Perennial spring question Thanks Bob, tyre to body distance isn't so relevant as we have very differing tyres (mine are 205/40/16 on the back and 195/40/16 on the
front -
long story). What would be interesting is the distance on the front strut using
the XR2
spring between the top and bottom cups on the strut. Have a look at this photo to see what I mean... http://picasaweb.google.com/tw.
bloke/Quantum/photo#5231319611225567842
As you can see my gap is 90mm and the coils of the spring are very
close
together, which is why I think it is getting coilbound. This photo
is of
the nearside with the weight on the wheels. If anybody has the inclination I would be grateful to know what this distance is with other springs. Cheers, Tom. -----Original Message----- From: quantu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
quantu...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Bob Craig Sent: 05 August 2008 23:40 To: Quantum Owners Group Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Perennial spring question Hi Tom, I have 1100 springs and dampers on the rear and standard XR2 struts
on
the front. I chose this set up after lots of advice from various people on this group about a year ago (thanks again to all who helped). This set up suits me, as I have decent ground clearance to negotiate the many speed bumps. I get no tyre rubbing (185/60-14 tyres). I have recently pushed the car pretty hard on some of the country roads near me and it handled really well. A little bit skittish at high speed on poor surfaces but then, so was my Mini Cooper S. I can send you a picture if you want to see for yourself or I can measure the ground clearance and tyre to body clearance. Bob Craig (Q2-267) On 5 Aug, 09:07, "Tom Walker" <tom.bl...@virgin.net> wrote:Sorry for stirring this old thread up again, but after 4 years ofbottomingout on the tiniest of bumps and rubbing the tyres on the wheel
arches, I
decided it was time to make a change. So I have already swapped
out my
modified rear springs (cut down 1.1) for standard 1.1 rear springs
and
givenmyself 30mm more ride height at the back. I now need to bring the front up a bit. I currently have Pi parts up front, and they look very close to
being
coil-bound even at rest. Looking at QSCs parts list, they have 3 options:- Diesel, Standard
&
Special. Does anybody know the ratings of these? Are they all the same
height, but
different ratings? Any opinions? What about any other options? Are the "standard" ones from an XR2
or
other?Cheers, Tom
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 3:08:35 PM3/30/17
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Aaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!
I didn't realise spring seat was also different, but I thought I read it was front springs that were 'Quantum' spec ?
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 19:56:13
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 3:12:44 PM3/30/17
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More info from 2015 thread. Ooops, the scissor jack that fits is in the corner of my garage! It was standard xr2 rear and quantum red at the front. The 2+2 is similar weight as an xr2 so in theory xr2 springs should work. For me it definitely needed stiffer springs, the dampers were wound up to compensate, which in an ideal world is wrong. Early 2+2 had higher spring damper points and to achieve the 'on stilts look' had I think a 2" extension piece. Mine just had standard length everything and was an early chassis. That's actually a bit of a pain as most of the off the shelf stuff for an xr2 also gives a drop so won't fit. Later 2+2 had shorter Whatnots. At least that is what we seem to have figured out through various posts and discussions over the years. Preference on what was best to fit tended to align with age, under 40:= stiff as possible, over 40 = soft and comfortable. Your preference may vary of course. Rough starting point would be for soft go quantum springs with first dampers, harder xr2 all around, stiff with some damper adjustment gaz standard length with xr2 springs, fully customidable proper oilovers (the latter be careful to get standard height xr2 else you'll be scrapping the road) On 28 Dec 2015 18:21, Robert Craig <bobbyc...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
His is a question that comes up fairly regularly. Indeed, I asked it myself a few years back. However, there is no definitive answer as there are so many variables to consider. My first 2+2 ended up with standard XR2 front struts and springs and 1100 Fiesta rear shocks and springs. I found that set up was great with some sticky tyres and did many spirited runs. It did ground out on occasions over bumpy roads when pushing on but was very comfortable when driving "normally" . John Deverson has that car now and he would confirm that it handles like a go kart. My present 2+2 (ex Matthew Wastell car - I think it will always be known as that) has Gaz adjustable dampers. It originally had Quantum red springs on the front and I believe possibly -20mm springs on the rear. The car looked mean and handled good but was too low to get a standard trolley or scissor jack under and the front dampers would bottom out with an unnerving thud. I messed about with different springs and again settled on XR2 front and 1100 rear. It sits higher but still handles well although with the added weight of the turbo, charge cooler, oil cooler and LSD I think it could do with higher poundage springs on the front for spirited driving. Like I say, so many variables to consider. Bob Sent from my iPad On 28 Dec 2015, at 16:41, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:
I have Gaz coilovers on my 2+2 The first thing to note is that they are only coilovers on the front, the rear still uses separate springs and shocks. The 2nd thing is it will be very low, even at the highest setting. Mine is a nightmare on speedbumps or even uneven road surfaces. I ended up winding the front coilovers up to max ride height and i just used standard XR2 springs on the rear, the GAZ ones were way too low. I notice they do offer to customise the setup to your requirements so it would be worth trying to get a higher ride height if you can. What setup is on your 2+2 at the moment ? Even the standard XR2 setup is often considered too low on the 2+2 Jim On 28/12/2015 12:03, SMIDG3T wrote:
Hi all. Hope you had a great Christmas. I've wanted to buy some coilovers for a while now and got some money at Christmas so I thought now is a good time to start looking around and asking on forums, hence this post. Do you have any recommendations? I've found a set of Gaz, are they any good? Here's the link: http://www.gazcoilovers.com/ford-c-9/fiesta-c-9_142/fiesta-mk12-c-9_142_143/ford-fiesta-mk-12-gaz-coilover-kit-p-18.html These would be for normal road use, no track days or anything like that. Thanks.
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 3:20:10 PM3/30/17
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Quantum used to supply special Red front springs,(known as Quantum red springs) to give increased ride height, I gather they are no longer available. I would think that these are fitted to your car.If anybody has any going spare I would be very interested
as my 2+2 is too low with the heavy Diesel lump, a trolley jack with the 1/2" block board spreader on top, will not go under the sill.
From the later build manual "The rear springs (on the 2+2) should be replaced with the longer/softer type which can be supplied by our stores" I believe they mean non XR2 rear springs, as most donor's were XR2's.
John
Read more: http://quantumforum.proboards.com/thread/75/suspension-question#ixzz4cq1z9soG
From the later build manual "The rear springs (on the 2+2) should be replaced with the longer/softer type which can be supplied by our stores" I believe they mean non XR2 rear springs, as most donor's were XR2's.
John
Read more: http://quantumforum.proboards.com/thread/75/suspension-question#ixzz4cq1z9soG
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 20:10:21
More info from 2015 thread. Ooops, the scissor jack that fits is in the corner of my garage! It was standard xr2 rear and quantum red at the front. The 2+2 is similar weight as an xr2 so in theory xr2 springs should work. For me it definitely needed stiffer springs, the dampers were wound up to compensate, which in an ideal world is wrong. Early 2+2 had higher spring damper points and to achieve the 'on stilts look' had I think a 2" extension piece. Mine just had standard length everything and was an early chassis. That's actually a bit of a pain as most of the off the shelf stuff for an xr2 also gives a drop so won't fit. Later 2+2 had shorter Whatnots. At least that is what we seem to have figured out through various posts and discussions over the years. Preference on what was best to fit tended to align with age, under 40:= stiff as possible, over 40 = soft and comfortable. Your preference may vary of course. Rough starting point would be for soft go quantum springs with first dampers, harder xr2 all around, stiff with some damper adjustment gaz standard length with xr2 springs, fully customidable proper oilovers (the latter be careful to get standard height xr2 else you'll be scrapping the road) On 28 Dec 2015 18:21, Robert Craig <bobbyc...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 3:22:27 PM3/30/17
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Afraid not.
Early 2+2 used Quantum spec front and rear red springs.
The later ones used Quantum spec front and normal 1100 rear.
I'm pretty sure i have a pair of both over at my parents but not over there for a little while.
Jim
Early 2+2 used Quantum spec front and rear red springs.
The later ones used Quantum spec front and normal 1100 rear.
I'm pretty sure i have a pair of both over at my parents but not over there for a little while.
Jim
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 3:24:11 PM3/30/17
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Thanks, back to the drawing board 
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 30 March 2017 20:13:12
Dave English
Mar 30, 2017, 3:33:13 PM3/30/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Hi Calum
I've got Q2-009 which is definately an early one.
Originally I had the standard XR2 springs on the front and standard Mk2 1100 springs on the rear, tyres where 185/60 13's (again standard XR2). The rear XR2 springs were too short, the rear tyres sitting against the inner arch before the springs took the weight.
I've checked my build manual and looked at the car, and there is nothing on top of the shocks or the springs. The shocks were (and still are) standard XR2. The only 'spacer' is inside the spring for the bump stop, it doesn't affect the spring or shock length.
Hopefully a picture is attached showing my car with this set-up (the one with the tent behind it). This is about as low as you want to go, a rough road would see my stainless steel manifold hitting the ground, I've now got a thick plate welded to it.
I currently run with the Quantum springs and 185/60 14 tyres on Sierra wheels (185/60 13's were getting hard to find). It's a little softer and a bit higher off the ground but the bigger tyres help to the fill the arches. I don't know if these tyres would work with XR2 front springs because I changed my springs a while before I changed the wheels. The second photo shows this set-up.
Your 185/55 14 set-up has the same diameter as the standard XR2 tyres so XR2 front springs will be about right but don't put XR2 springs on the rear.
I know that this info disagrees with some other posts but I went and looked at the car to confirm what I thought and read my 2+2 build manuals (I have an early one, partially photo copied from hand written, and a later, standard one). The way I have described it is what the manual says and what I saw under the car.
Hope this helps and doesn't add too much confusion.
Regards
Dave English
I've got Q2-009 which is definately an early one.
Originally I had the standard XR2 springs on the front and standard Mk2 1100 springs on the rear, tyres where 185/60 13's (again standard XR2). The rear XR2 springs were too short, the rear tyres sitting against the inner arch before the springs took the weight.
I've checked my build manual and looked at the car, and there is nothing on top of the shocks or the springs. The shocks were (and still are) standard XR2. The only 'spacer' is inside the spring for the bump stop, it doesn't affect the spring or shock length.
Hopefully a picture is attached showing my car with this set-up (the one with the tent behind it). This is about as low as you want to go, a rough road would see my stainless steel manifold hitting the ground, I've now got a thick plate welded to it.
I currently run with the Quantum springs and 185/60 14 tyres on Sierra wheels (185/60 13's were getting hard to find). It's a little softer and a bit higher off the ground but the bigger tyres help to the fill the arches. I don't know if these tyres would work with XR2 front springs because I changed my springs a while before I changed the wheels. The second photo shows this set-up.
Your 185/55 14 set-up has the same diameter as the standard XR2 tyres so XR2 front springs will be about right but don't put XR2 springs on the rear.
I know that this info disagrees with some other posts but I went and looked at the car to confirm what I thought and read my 2+2 build manuals (I have an early one, partially photo copied from hand written, and a later, standard one). The way I have described it is what the manual says and what I saw under the car.
Hope this helps and doesn't add too much confusion.
Regards
Dave English
calum mcpherson
Mar 30, 2017, 4:05:19 PM3/30/17
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for reply Dave, interesting reading.
I was under car today and as my previous replies have noted what feels like an internal extension on the top of the rear shocker ( inside fibreglass strut mount accessible from below car), which would make sense as it is believed my car is an early model (see pic of strut top in boot, does this look similar to yours ?) As for rear spring, looks fairly std. top & bottom rubber mounts and internal bump stop , I did measure spring length at about 250mm with car sitting on level ground.
My tyre gap (car empty) is 70mm front , 60mm rear , arch height 615mm fr. 610 r. and back and front end I have approx. 230mm ground clearance.
Car previously had 15" rims with 195-50-15 tyres , which were oversized, so tyre to arch size has increased by changing wheels, although now as it should be in terms of circumference matching XR2.
Sitting about the same as my daily X3 (although it has Eibach -35 springs)lol.
Just want it to look right and at the moment it is not looking sporty
.
.Thanks again for input.
Calum
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dave English <dandh....@gmail.com>
Sent: 30 March 2017 20:33:13
Sent: 30 March 2017 20:33:13
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Lowering springs for my 2+2.
Jim Hearne
Mar 30, 2017, 4:26:52 PM3/30/17
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Hi Dave, I presume that your car was made before Quantum decided the
rear of the car was too low and added the spacer to the shock and
the got the longer rear springs made.
I don't think it disagrees with what i said, just your car pre-dates it being implemented.
I'm sure the intention with the 2+2 when it was designed was that it could take XR2 suspension parts, they just got the calculations a bit wrong to start with.
Jim
I don't think it disagrees with what i said, just your car pre-dates it being implemented.
I'm sure the intention with the 2+2 when it was designed was that it could take XR2 suspension parts, they just got the calculations a bit wrong to start with.
Jim
jonathan jackson
Mar 31, 2017, 4:07:07 AM3/31/17
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When I bought my 2+2 Turbo it was extremely low and was a pain to drive, crashing and bumping over rough roads and torque steering when throttle was used especially when pulling out and overtaking. In fact it was hard to avoid hitting the car I was overtaking!
After taking advice from the members here and especially Jim I bought some fiesta 1400 fronts and 1100 rears as I recall, and that was 5 years ago and since then my wife and I have done many trackdays and road miles with no problems.
Here is a videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnB-h9PhgM where we play with a Lambo Gallardo who had my wife on board and later he took me round too and being in a supercar driven flat out is a great experience!
Cheers
Jon
calum mcpherson
Mar 31, 2017, 7:09:56 AM3/31/17
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VTS_01_1mpeg Quantum 1April.VOB
Is the above video with it before the spring change or after ?
Thanks Calum.
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Sent: 31 March 2017 09:07:06
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chris...@btinternet.com
Mar 31, 2017, 8:14:20 AM3/31/17
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There are also rear springs for the van version.
KYB5288
Same length as std Fiesta but stiffer.
I have them on the back of my saloon as I lug a drum kit around and tow a
big trailer.
Chris G
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my
2+2.
Info so far may help others..
Rear Springs.. std. Fiesta...104mm diameter....307mm length (based on average of 4 makes)
Rear Springs.. XR2 mk2.......105mm diameter....265mm length (as above)
Front Springs..std. Fiesta...109mm diameter....307mm length (as above)
Front Springs..XR2 mk2.......110mm diameter....285mm length (as above)
XR2 based springs were harder to get info. on, but at least it's a start.
Rear Springs.. std. Fiesta...104mm diameter....307mm length (based on average of 4 makes)
Rear Springs.. XR2 mk2.......105mm diameter....265mm length (as above)
Front Springs..std. Fiesta...109mm diameter....307mm length (as above)
Front Springs..XR2 mk2.......110mm diameter....285mm length (as above)
XR2 based springs were harder to get info. on, but at least it's a start.
Calum
On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:52:01 UTC+1, calum mcpherson wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:52:01 UTC+1, calum mcpherson wrote:
I've recently changed my wheels 15" with 195-50-15 tyres to the correct set up 14" with 185-55-14, and my 2+2 looks like a Land Rover
I was going to change springs anyway, but now have brought this job forward as not looking as I want.I understand that the manual states 'Quantum red springs' for front and Fiesta mk2 1100 springs for rear, however when looking at lowering springs, most seem to be a standardised Fiesta mk2 set up , most covering full range excluding XR2 !!!!Anyone got any experience with lowering springs , any recommendations would be great .Car has std. XR2 engine set-up, thanks.
Robert Craig
Mar 31, 2017, 6:23:20 PM3/31/17
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My current 2+2 is chassis no 063 and I have fitted standard XR2 on the front and 1100 on the rear with GAZ adjustable dampers 15" wheels with 195/50 15. It handles well and is high enough to get over speed bumps (slowly) but does bottom out on the wheel arches occasionally. I also had this set up on chassis 263 originally with 14" wheels and then with 15" and 195/45 profile tyres. Similar handling.
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Too long since i looked at one of the springs to remember the length.But, a picture of the area around the top suspension mount in the boot should tell me which version it is.Or, what is the chassis number ?, mine is 99 and has the high mounts.Jim
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Lowering springs for my 2+2.
Thanks for the prompt reply Jim, I haven't a clue on the rear mounts, is there a rough length of spring that would indicate which I have at rear or front for that matter ?I don't want to be buying and fitting std. XR2 springs only to find I still have the same problem, but possibly a harsh ride too, as I have read that std. XR2 springs are too harsh for rear anyway.I have attached a pic (I think), with new wheels fitted to give you an idea of car, Thanks.Calum.
On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 22:06:38 UTC+1, Jim Hearne wrote:
Unless you are only travelling on good A roads and not going over speed bumps you will find lowering springs on a 2+2 rather a pain.
The 2+2 already sits lower than the donor Fiesta for a given setup, the XR2 was around 20mm lower and lowered XR2 spec springs will be another 30 or 40mm at least.
That's why Quantum recommended their red springs at the front and 1100 ((taller than XR2).
As a first step i would just try standard XR2 spec springs, not lowered ones.
One thing to watch out for, depending on the age of your 2+2, the early ones (up till past chassis number 99 at least) had rear spring and shock absorber mounts on the body that were about 60mm too high, Quantum fixed this with spacers on the top of the shocks and extra tall rear springs.
If your car is one of these then you will need to compensate for that on whatever rear springs you get.
My 2+2 has coilovers on the front and standard XR2 rear springs, but mine has the high rear mounts.
So i've effectively lowered it around 80mm from the Quantum intended spec, it is too low, i have to drive across most speed bumps at an angle and even then they hit the engine crossmember or exhaust.
And i can't use it to go to work as the uneven B roads cause similar problems.
Jim
On 29/03/2017 20:19, calum mcpherson wrote:I've recently changed my wheels 15" with 195-50-15 tyres to the correct set up 14" with 185-55-14, and my 2+2 looks like a Land Rover.
calum mcpherson
Apr 1, 2017, 12:52:53 PM4/1/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Ok, 32 replies and tbh, still not clear on options, from what I've heard from replies I have established the following (I think) which is a great help
As it has been confirmed (by Jim Hearne) my car appears to be an early model 2+2 and as such needs the longer rear springs (recommended by several to get 1100 springs) and front springs can be XR2 or 1.4 model springs.
So, are std. 1100 rear springs indeed the 'longer' springs as required or do I need extra long 1100 springs ? (on checking spring sizes I see std. 1100 springs are approx. 307mm long)
Front springs seem fairly simple and got my head round them, however the whole idea of my enquiry was to improve the 60mm rear and 70mm front wheel arch gap. My springs at present all work fine, and as I never fitted them and have no history on them I don't really know what is fitted, so is there actually a solution to my problem, I want to reduce wheel gap by about 35mm ?
I appreciate all replies, with pics would be a great help.
Thanks,
Calum.
Jim Hearne
Apr 1, 2017, 1:38:58 PM4/1/17
to quantu...@googlegroups.com
The long springs for the rear of the early 2+2's are longer still
than 1100 springs.
They were made specially for Quantum.
On the later 2+2's they corrected the spring and shock mountings and standard 1100 springs are used.
The main reason for using the 1100 springs on the rear was that the rear of the 2+2 is much lighter than the rear of a Fiesta and the 1100 springs were softest.
The front springs were recommend to be Quantum spec as well, i believe these were uprated springs but with a non XR2 length.
What colour are the springs on your 2+2 ?
If red they are probably Quantum springs.
In my opinion your next stage is to fit standard XR2 springs on the front and standard 1100 springs on the rear and remove the spacer from the top of the rear shocks.
Jim
They were made specially for Quantum.
On the later 2+2's they corrected the spring and shock mountings and standard 1100 springs are used.
The main reason for using the 1100 springs on the rear was that the rear of the 2+2 is much lighter than the rear of a Fiesta and the 1100 springs were softest.
The front springs were recommend to be Quantum spec as well, i believe these were uprated springs but with a non XR2 length.
What colour are the springs on your 2+2 ?
If red they are probably Quantum springs.
In my opinion your next stage is to fit standard XR2 springs on the front and standard 1100 springs on the rear and remove the spacer from the top of the rear shocks.
Jim
--
calum mcpherson
Apr 1, 2017, 2:25:23 PM4/1/17
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Springs are black, not Red and I can see no markings on them.
As said previously rear springs are sitting at 250mm approx. with car sitting on ground, so at a guess might be about 307mm (std rear 1100cc length) when not under load.
So the spacer on Rear shock (about 50-60mm) can be removed and std.1100cc springs fitted , which I would assume would give a drop, assuming existing springs are indeed the extended 'Quantum' one's, but would this give drop if rears are not ,and how much would you think?
By fitting XR2 springs to front (assuming not XR2 at present) would give at max about 30mm(depending on manufacturer),which would be fine.
Sorry to be a pain on this, but don't want to spend money and not get the results I want, thanks again.
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 01 April 2017 18:38:56
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my 2+2.
Sent: 01 April 2017 18:38:56
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Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my 2+2.
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Jim Hearne
Apr 1, 2017, 4:45:50 PM4/1/17
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All the Quantum ones were red as far as i know.
If they are black original Ford ones they will have 2 or 3 coloured bands about 1cm wide painted round a turn of the coil.
You only real way of finding out is to take the springs off the car and measure them.
Or wait until Stoneleigh and measure the ride height of some of the other 2+2's there with known suspension setups.
Jim
If they are black original Ford ones they will have 2 or 3 coloured bands about 1cm wide painted round a turn of the coil.
You only real way of finding out is to take the springs off the car and measure them.
Or wait until Stoneleigh and measure the ride height of some of the other 2+2's there with known suspension setups.
Jim
calum mcpherson
Apr 1, 2017, 5:20:05 PM4/1/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Think I will need another plan, removing all to measure (while a pain) may be an option, but a run to Stoneleigh from Scotland to measure wheel gap, probably not. Back to the drawing board.
Calum
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Robert Craig
Apr 2, 2017, 4:01:26 AM4/2/17
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Calum, where in Scotland are you. I am in Paisley and have an early model (063) with standard XR2 front springs and 1100 rears on fitted around 3000 miles ago so still fresh. My car may be slightly heavier at the front with the addition of the turbo and intercooler stuff but it will give you a good guide. There are actually quite a few quantums in Scotland, at least 10 at the last count and probably some more that don't use either The Scottish Kit Car Club or QOC.
Bob
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calum mcpherson
Apr 2, 2017, 4:21:09 AM4/2/17
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I'm in Carluke Bob, Andy 'Droid ' on proboards has been over, he stays in Renfrew, but at present his car is being worked on, so can't really see it. Would love to see your set up anytime that suits. PM me your details and hopefully we could meet up. Thanks
Calum.
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Robert Craig
Apr 2, 2017, 8:53:12 AM4/2/17
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Car is off road at the moment. MOT on Thursday. Assuming all is ok, might be able to do something Saturday or Sunday.
Bob
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calum mcpherson
Apr 2, 2017, 9:00:07 AM4/2/17
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As long as car can be seen sitting on its wheels that would be what I need to see.
I can't see a way to PM on this Forum or I would send you my number, but could pop over anytime to suit you.
Thanks again
Calum
From: 'Robert Craig' via Quantum Owners Group <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 02 April 2017 13:53:08
Sent: 02 April 2017 13:53:08
Robert Craig
Apr 2, 2017, 12:34:18 PM4/2/17
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Sent you an email with a pic.
Bob
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calum mcpherson
Apr 2, 2017, 12:45:23 PM4/2/17
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Got it thanks and replied, meant to ask what size wheels & tyres are fitted in the pic you sent ? Thanks Calum.
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Robert Craig
Apr 2, 2017, 1:07:08 PM4/2/17
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Almost worn TOYO R1Rs 195/50 15 on the front and part worn 195/45 15 on the rear. The rear tyres last for ever as they do very little work. Even on a hot day on a track day they hardly get warm. Changed the fronts to 195/50 as R1Rs don't come in 45 profile.
Bob
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jonathan jackson
Apr 2, 2017, 1:42:15 PM4/2/17
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Hi Calum
This second video was taken before I sorted the suspension out.
the car in the video was too low and stiff on XR2 springs.
The trackday video was done with the suspension sorted and though its difficult to decide what is best it drives without vices now and does 1 min 28 round Combe in my hands (which are getting slower as I age!
cheers
Jon
Susan and Martin Scott
Apr 2, 2017, 5:09:54 PM4/2/17
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One (non- destructive) solution could be to get
some rear spacers made up to the same design but (guess) 20mm shorter. If
that doesn't work then they 1) may not be too expensive? 2)could still also
be useful with other springs. The other ( quicker but destructive!) way would be
to chop 20mm equivalant off each of the rear springs with the angle grinder -
maybe only about 1/2 turn off? This of course is non-reversible and will
make the springs slightly stiffer (though probably not noticeably
so)
Martin
--
calum mcpherson
Apr 2, 2017, 5:20:29 PM4/2/17
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As the spacer (I assume) screws onto the existing male screw fitting on top of shock , I doubt in terms of dropping in height that it would make much difference (as shock really only effects upstroke on suspension, not downstroke /load. I spoke to another 2+2 owner today , he has an early model (chassis in the 90s) , he has stripped rear suspension , and doesn't have a spacer / extender on his shock but car sits nicely in terms of wheel gap on same wheel / tyre set up as me. Beginning to think that it really depends what bits people have as to what gets fitted. As to cutting springs , would rather fit something designed to fit (if such a thing exists).
Thanks for input
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Susan and Martin Scott <susanan...@corringham99.free-online.co.uk>
Sent: 02 April 2017 22:09:54
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Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Lowering springs for my 2+2.
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Susan and Martin Scott
Apr 2, 2017, 5:33:50 PM4/2/17
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Ah - my mistake as I understood the spacer to be on
the spring top (not the damper). Unless they are gas dampers a spacer (on end of
damper) won't have any effect (other than changing the limit of
travel).
Martin
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calum mcpherson
Apr 2, 2017, 6:21:16 PM4/2/17
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As far as I am aware the spacer/extensions are on both, and rear shocks are oil not gas , and I'm glad you agree with my theory on shock spacer.
Calum
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calum mcpherson
Apr 12, 2017, 1:38:49 PM4/12/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Decided to upgrade rear shocks (as looking a bit tired), fronts have been upgraded to Gas Struts and was thinking same for rear, looking at Kayaba Gas ones, as seem reasonable value for money.
I want to upgrade these to make sure all is fine, then will measure all springs and see where we are at. Managed to source a set of 'Quantum Red front springs (thanks to Bob Craig) which have been refurbed to go on front, will then look at rear.
I presume fitting the Gas type to rear wont cause any issue's with removing the shock extender ? (as recommended by Jim Hearne)
Thanks all for input.
Jim Hearne
Apr 12, 2017, 2:16:32 PM4/12/17
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Don't remove the shock extender on the rear until (if) you fit
shorter rear springs.
If you are just changing the shocks with the existing springs then swap the extender from the old shocks to the new.
Jim
If you are just changing the shocks with the existing springs then swap the extender from the old shocks to the new.
Jim
--
calum mcpherson
Apr 12, 2017, 2:58:07 PM4/12/17
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Thanks for reply Jim,going to check what springs are on rear when removed , but want to upgrade shocks anyway to ensure they are operating properly (old one's do look well worn, though not leaking) , thinking gas ones rather than oil as fronts are gas struts, always used gas rather than air when upgrading.
So to clarify all I am doing is changing rear shocks at present , then will see how it all sits, and will leave in (if they are indeed there) the extenders till I change rear springs (if I go for shorter ones).
Was out for a run with Bob Craig in his 2+2 at the weekend , quite a beast , well impressed with the whole package , particularly how solid and planted it all felt,the power was too much tbh for my needs though was very impressive.
I would settle for the ride and solid feel of Bob's tbh , although I do realise he has expensive Gaz adjustable struts & shocks fitted , sadly out of my budget.
Calum.
From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 12 April 2017 19:16:30
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Robert Craig
Apr 12, 2017, 4:43:28 PM4/12/17
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Matthew gave me a HUGE pile of receipts when I bought the car. I'm sure the GAZ set of dampers was around £450 from Burton Power.
Bob
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calum mcpherson
Apr 12, 2017, 5:04:55 PM4/12/17
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Wish I had the budget Bob, but can't justify it for my hobby car. Going to upgrade rear shocks (ordered the gas KYB one's) , and will try the 'Q' front springs (which are now shining like a new pin) then check what springs I have size wise , and take it from there.
Calum.
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Sent: 12 April 2017 21:43:24
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Matthew Wastell
Apr 12, 2017, 6:57:04 PM4/12/17
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The setup is standard length XR2 rear springs, quantum red front springs, standard length xr2 Gaz adjustable damping dampers. I had to order the Gaz dampers specially as they are otherwise for lowered vehicles so wouldn't have the right range of travel.
There are no extensions on the suspension and it's the older setup (I think even before they added the extensions). In my opinion it's the right height, later 2+2s to quote Mark 'look like they are on stilts"
I dialled up the damping, which is really a bodge as it needed slightly stiffer springs in my opinion (especially at the front) The only other thing that is ideally needed in that setup is increased height bump stops at the rear as the tyres will actually
touch the rear wheel arches in extreme circumstances.
I checked all angles at that height and everything was as close to ideal values as could be. If it was 2" higher it would certainly affect at least one of the front wheels' angles. I don't think rear is affected as solid axles.
Too much power?! Naaaaaah. ;-). I'm really quite impressed at that engine, it's a regular 2.0 zetec with a decomp plate of 3mm. I bought the decomp plate but then decided to go the whole forged pistons route (sadly that was one of the many short lived
engines in the car). The decomp plate + Mondeo 2.0 auto was a quick fix to get me to Ireland.
What mileage is it on now Bob?
M
calum mcpherson
Apr 12, 2017, 7:28:35 PM4/12/17
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Thanks for input Mathew, lot of good info there. I've got front 'Q' red springs from Bob , now refurbed, to go on my car leaving the gas front struts on which are fairly new. Ordered new gas rears and will sort out rear springs to suit. Interesting your
comment re. the rear shock extenders, haven't had shocks off yet to confirm if they are fitted, but checked rear turret height in Bobs boot, and is same as mine 🤔. Like the idea of XR2 rear springs as seems really soft/bouncy & on stilts at present. As for
power in Bobs car, was awesome, but as my 23 yr old also drives mine, far too fast lol. Thanks again for input. Calum.
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Matthew Wastell
Apr 13, 2017, 6:19:24 AM4/13/17
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There's a switch on the dash for low and high power modes ;-). It was around 200 ish low and 250 high. No reason it couldn't be even lower on low (with some additional plumbing). I think Bob had in on the RR at 270 high. High was just under 1 bar boost
which I'm told is the limit for that engine on standard valve springs.
M
Matthew Wastell
Apr 13, 2017, 6:37:14 AM4/13/17
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It's probably worth adding if you speak to a decent suspension place or try to calculate everything yourself, the 2+2 weighs around 900 KG which I think is slightly more than an XR2. At least mine weighed 880kg with no carpet and several other bits not
yet installed. I can't remember the front rear bias now.
Robert Craig
Apr 13, 2017, 8:35:10 AM4/13/17
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Great info as always Matthew. You and Jim put a lot of work into the car and it is pretty unique. I've gone with XR2 front springs and 1100 rears which has raised it slightly. Callum will testify that the handling is pretty damn good. I thinks the mileage is around 52k so it's done a few miles in the last couple of years, including a trip to France.
I get the feeling you are missing the little Q?
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Andrew Crawford
Apr 16, 2017, 2:15:11 PM4/16/17
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Calum,
Keep me posted on how you get on with your suspension setup. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the front spring height.
Andy
Keep me posted on how you get on with your suspension setup. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the front spring height.
Andy
calum mcpherson
Apr 16, 2017, 4:25:48 PM4/16/17
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Will do , will update my findings on here, so others may find the whole process a bit easier.
Calum.
calum mcpherson
Sep 3, 2017, 11:12:56 AM9/3/17
to Quantum Owners Group
Thought this may be useful to others . Calum
On Wednesday, 29 March 2017 21:52:01 UTC+1, calum mcpherson wrote:
Robert Craig
Sep 3, 2017, 1:46:10 PM9/3/17
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Be interesting to see if these parts are available
Bob
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--
calum mcpherson
Sep 3, 2017, 1:58:50 PM9/3/17
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Thought would be helpful for trying to identify what's on a car anyway, if that is they have markings. Doubt Ford would have many. 👍
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