Brake Servo Problems

[John Hogg]

Dear All

I hope someone can help.  My recently purchased 2+2 has terrible brakes.  I have replaced or refurbished the brake calipers and the pads are good.  I purchased a replacement Servo but found it was very different to the original one fitted.  I have tried to fit the new servo but find it is different in every sense.

Can anyone direct me to, or supply me with, a working servo for a 1986 1600 CVH engined Fiesta or the part number for.

Failing a replacement - does anyone know what else it can be - the pressure required to get the brakes to work is as if there is no assistance from the servo.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers  

John

[Jim Hearne]

There are 2 very different master cylinder, servo and transfer bar setups on the Mk2 Fiesta

1986 was the changeover year so we need to work out which setup you have.

Can you send a picture ?

 

Unfortunately parts for both setups are vary hard to find.

 

If you have the ability to fabricate parts then there are various upgrades that can be done to either KA or Mondeo master cylinders and servos.

I don’t know if there are any off the shelf conversion kits though.

 

Jim

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/a61d63dc-e742-4a2b-b275-8cb381214f21n%40googlegroups.com.

[susanandmartin]

I apologise if you’re already familiar with …….. If (with engine off) you press the brake pedal and keeping it pressed then start the engine, does the pedal go down once the engine has started?

If it does then there is some assistance provided by the servo. If it doesn’t the first thing to check is for any air leaks in the vacuum pipe to the servo –  If there is a leak this will probably affect the running of the engine anyway.

Martin Scott

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Hogg
Sent: 08 September 2022 12:01
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Brake Servo Problems

 

Dear All

--

[Bill Allison]

An extremely useful source of info on Mk1 and 2 Fiesta parts and substitutes and suppliers thereof is the Ford Fiesta MK1 / MK2 owners club

Bill

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/5E565DCA4C304CA886DFFF6D7C6BD9E8%40JimQuad.

[Paul S Quantum]

We grew tired of the original servos failing. From the 5 failed servos here its always the big diaphragm that fails, well it is with the ones we have here. We did manage to patch a couple of them but the repair held but they failed quickly at a different point & of all the seals the big diaphragm is NLA.

Finding a good early Ka or Mondeo servo can be tricky with the good ones fetching silly money.

 

We went down the compbrake bias brake setup which is a bolt on conversion that replaces the original servo and master cylinder.

Not cheap mind but a permanent solution plus has the added advantage of cheap easy to get master cylinders and the ability to adjust the brake bias to exactly as you want it.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/1135758923.1363954.1662638479743%40mail.yahoo.com.

 

[Jim Hearne]

The would be more servos around if Ford had thought to paint them with paint that was brake fluid proof.

 

The comp brake bias setup won’t pass a IVA test so don’t use it on a car that needs a IVA

And you do loose the servo.

 

Jim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/631a0fbc.050a0220.3640c.f89dSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.

[rob hancock]

Hi John

I am away testing tomorrow and racing sat and sun, If no one sorts it before I am back I will have a look to see if we have a good s/h one or at least give you the correct part numbers

Regards Rob 

--

[PAUL SLATER]

At least they did put some paint on them which beats some of their products today.

But do agree would have been sensible for them to use a brake fluid resistant paint not the same stuff they have used for eternity.

 

The compbrake setup is IVA compliant as long as the bias bar is dealt with as per current IVA guidance once setup.

Current IVA guidance is any bias brake setup has to be welded once set and pinning or lock wire as used to be allowed is no longer.

 

(service brake control/ mechanical components) 09b in current IVA manual.

 

Removing the servo is the main advantage to the compbrake setup I don’t see it as a issue at all.

Insurance company were more than happy with the compbrake setup with no extra charge but were less enthusiastic other options.

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/3CF21D339EB2492EBE41806DA937AC73%40JimQuad.

 

[susanandmartin]

It may be that the paint was ‘from supplier’ Girling, or similar, but they or Ford could have supplied another coating. They (manufacturers) component or vehicle, don’t expect the parts to still be in use after so many years ☹

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4266D170-E402-4AA3-8303-EF9A3398D924%40hxcore.ol.

 

[Andy Heaton]

Have a chat with Shane at SB Parts 

Regards Andy 

--

[Bill Jackson]

There was, ar one time, a fairly well documented conversion for the 2+2 involving the use of a mk1 (non ABS) MONDEO Servo. There were a few minor (?) Fitting complications, but the result was reported to be a huge improvement. Incidentally, the servo for the Mk3 based H4 is also as hens teeth to source new or second-hand, but a friend with a TVR (which also utilises a mk3 Fiesta servo) found from his research that one of the KIA cars offers a viable alternative. Interestingly, the early Hyundai Stellar had front suspension almost indistinguishable from the mk 3,4 and 5 Cortina, if the Spartan Owners' Club magazine (Spartacus) of the era is to be believed. Certainly I think the Hyundai/Kia parts bins may well be worth further research and possibly could prove a valuable source of alternative parts?

--

[Hans Defauwes]

Dear All

 

What is the recomended rear brake cylinder size for a QSC saloon Q113?

17,5 or 20mm

 

Hans

 

 

 

 

[Paul S Quantum]

We used 17.5mm rear wheel brake cylinders when we changed them on the saloon here.

The ones fitted when it was built were 17.5mm.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/98ADB0A091334713872BFBFC6ED0995A%40HansPC.

 

[Hans Defauwes]

Dear All,

 

My left rear brake has much less braking power than right

MOT failure  0.2 vs 0.8

 

Replaced brake drums (right had cracks on brake surface)

Replaced brake shoes

Bleeded the rear brakes

Both cylinder are less than 2 years ago replaced (17,5mm) incl. the copper rear axle brakeline (outside diamater 5mm)

Took the left brakeshoes off and tested the cylinder – it is not stuck. moves freely in and out – by slightly pushing the brake pedal and by hand, no leak.

Put a bit of grease on the ratched mechanism

Slightly sanded the left bakeshoe, decrease it with brake cleaner, roughed the inside of the brake drum (60 grid)

 

Any sugestions?

 

 

Hans

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim Hearne]

Has your car got the pressure limiting valves on the rear brakes ? , usually mounted under the floor across from the fuel tank.

Maybe one is stuck.

 

Jim

 

 

From: Hans Defauwes

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 6:30 PM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

--
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/705F6B5FFC9C4C22A1EA53A4B4412D0F%40HansPC.

[susanandmartin]

Is it also a similar percentage reduced (compared to Right side) when the parking brake (hand brake) is applied without footbrake?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/BCBA76706616496D9114B40378558F15%40JimQuad.

 

[Hans Defauwes]

I forgot to mention that applying the handbrake gives nearly the same braking power left and right

MOT pass

 

Tomorrow I’ll put the car on a brige so I can inspect the brakelines

 

Hans

 

 

From: susanandmartin

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 7:09 PM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

[list...@liberator-systems.co.uk]

The QSC recommended rear cylinder size seemed to change a few times. You did not mention if you have G valve in rear circuit. If you were not suffering with rear wheel locking then probably best to just replace existing cylinders with same (size is usually marked on cylinder).  I do not have G valve on my saloon and rears are 15mm.

John

[list...@liberator-systems.co.uk]

Might be worth checking the rear shoe ratchet mechanism is working/adjusted  correctly. If ratchet is worn out it fails to hold shoe as close to drum as it should.

John

[Hans Defauwes]

Hi John,

 

I can’t remember seeing  any G valves underneath the car.

I’ll check again soon.

 

At the moment rear cylinders are 17,5mm

 

Hans

 

 

From: mailto:list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 12:08 AM

To: Quantum Owners Group

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/9ba4c189-33df-44f3-9e7d-8a47599cf95bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Hans Defauwes]

Hi John

 

The shoe ratchets are new and work fine.

tested them

 

Will ceck if i have G valves – can’t remember seeing them.

 

Hans

 

 

 

From: mailto:list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 12:15 AM

To: Quantum Owners Group

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to quantu...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
 
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is" basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the instructions contained within this or related message(s).
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/608c359f-b579-458b-9263-69fa6ab5fed0n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jim Hearne]

If you have rubber flexible brake pipes it could be a partially collapsed internally pipe which is blocking under pressure.

 

Jim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/75B0CFA2BDCC4BAFA02E803DB7293C29%40HansPC.

[Paul S Quantum]

Hello everyone

I am the historian for the Quantum Owners Club & am current updating the QOC records for the quantum saloons.

I took over the position of club historian a short time ago and in that time there are three main questions asked by new owners.

Those are:-

                                How many were produced?

                                How many are left/How rare is my car?

                                How many are on the road?

 

The first is easy to answer but the second and third are not so easy to answer but the more quantum saloons that are on the list of cars the more accurate the answer becomes.

 

I started updating the records with the saloon as I am slightly biased being a saloon owner myself & had already been scouring the internet for quantum saloon details to see if I could get a picture together of how many quantum saloons are left and how many are on the road.

 

Can owners of quantum saloons please get in touch & let me know the registration and if possible the chassis number of your car/cars.

If you do not want the details in public I have a email you can contact me with the details.

 

quantumh...@btinternet.com

 

Currently the updated QOC list for the Quantum saloons is just over half of the production run of cars but I am hopeful that more saloons can be added to the list with the help of owners.

 

In this day and age I doubt there are many quantum saloons on the road that have not been photographed and appeared on the internet or social medio.

There will be some but a small number.

Its the cars people own that are mid restoration or awaiting work that will not have been photographed.

Even if you used to own a quantum saloon can you let me know the registration so I can check to see if it is on the current list of cars.

Any questions please let me know at the above email address.

 

Once I have gone as far as I can go and exhausted the search for quantum saloons I will be moving on to the other quantum variants & doing it a single model at a time.

 

Thank you

 

Paul

QOC historian

 

[Paul Laters]

[John Hogg]

Hi Jim and all

Thank you all for your information and advice.  I eventually gave up and took the 2+2 to my 'Good Buddies' at Shine Automotive in Thirsk, North Yorkshire.  Sam and Colin are both great guys and do alot of work on 'Youtube' for their channel on various builds.  Sam found that a replacement was straight forward using an XR2 bracket and servo.  More details, if required, can be sought from Sam at Shine Automotive.  I can give you more details of the finished article when I get it back after its MOT on Thursday this week.

Thanks again to everyone.

Yours

John

[John Hogg]

Hi All - Just thought I would give you an update on my Quantum 2+2 brake servo problems.  The guys at Shine Automotive (on Youtube and Facebook) in Thirsk, North Yorkshire got everything sorted out and working fine.  Just for your information they settle for a Ford KA servo in the end as they would be much more available going forward.  So 'Well Done' to Sam, Colin and Lewis at Shire Automotive for their efforts and help.  

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/quantumowners/BFgRsYdenAE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to quantumowner...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/b8c71f6b-cdee-4db9-b2a2-89ab96363793n%40googlegroups.com.

--

John Hogg

Proud to be associated with The Royal British Legion and Jump4Heros in supporting both past and serving members of our Armed Forces.  Have a look at this – you’ll be amazed: http://youtube.com/watch?v=W8dTmeT_tIU

 

 

Preview YouTube video Flying The Eiger: Making Of Jump4Heroes Eiger Wingsuit Formation BASE Jump - Extreme

Flying The Eiger: Making Of Jump4Heroes Eiger Wingsuit Formation BASE Jump - Extreme