Electric Windows

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list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

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May 25, 2022, 9:51:17 AMMay 25
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I have recently been doing quite a bit of rewiring on my saloon (factory built). I noticed the wiring cable for electric windows (looks original) is 4 core (Red white black brown) going from cabin into door cavity  but at each end of this cable 2 pairs are joined so effectively 2 core cable connecting motor to centre console switch. Wondering why 4 core cable was used in build? - possible wiring of extra door switch? . The wire gauge looks same on 4 core and switch connection cables so extra load capacity seems unlikely. Currently the switches are wired directly (no relays). New switches and relay operation are going to be fitted. 

Window movement is really slow. I don't think this is due to dirty glass friction etc. so maybe motors are tired. The current setup is using Bosch motors which I guess is probably Ford Fiesta Mk3 original type (see pic). If the mechanical side of regulator/cable is ok I was wondering if just motor can be replaced on these? (a lot of Bosch units look very similar although slightly different part numbers)

If I replace complete regulator with motor which donors have owners found best or easiest to fit? I think originally modded Fiesta MK3 units were fitted but others have mentioned MK4 MK5? can be adapted as can Ford KA units.

John
IMG_20220524_161115025.jpg

Jim Hearne

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May 25, 2022, 10:09:48 AMMay 25
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The builder probably just had 4 core cable and thought they would double up to increase the current capability and maybe also incase of one of the cores breaking which is quite common with door wiring because of the flexing.
 
Ford didn’t use relays on the electric windows until right into the Mk4 / 5 models, the windows switches can handle it directly.
Because you need to reverse the polarity of the motors and possible operate the passenger door from the drivers side you are going to need at least 4 change over relays.
 
Slow windows is usually either rusty cables, lack of grease on the guides, or misalignment of the various guides and the runners for the glass.
 
The picture didn’t make it through to me.
The original was Mk3 Fiesta, the earlier ones had the bottom of the guide bent over at 90 degrees to make it fit in the door, i doubt if any of these are still working.
The later ones had the guide shortened and a spacer inserted in the cable to compensate for the shorter length.
 
You can use later ones , keep to the ones from a 3 door but they need various modifications.
I would expect KA to be ok as well as the KA used a lot of parts from the Mk3 Fiesta.
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susanandmartin

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May 25, 2022, 10:28:12 AMMay 25
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Hello John,

I adapted a mk1 Ford Ka unit to do the job – I suspect it’s almost identical to other Fords. The wiring is 2 core to each motor, and the polarity is changed by the switch for either up or down motion.

I’m pretty sure it’s not possible (or certainly very difficult ) to just change the motor unit because the lift wire is coiled within a geared housing attached to the motor – If you are brave enough to dismantle an existing unit from your car it may answer whether a motor swap is possible. I changed to electric because my manual winders had the ‘bend the track’ modification, which is ultimately doomed for failure because the lift wire cuts into the track – If the tracks on your car are modified in this way (bent 90 degrees) that could explain the slow movement. If it is helpful, the

conversion covering the parts needed and how to make the changes without bending the track was in issue 176 (March 2021) of Complete Kit Car magazine

Back Issues [2] - performancepublishing.co.uk

Regards, Martin Scott

 

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From: list...@liberator-systems.co.uk
Sent: 25 May 2022 14:50
To: Quantum Owners Group
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Electric Windows

 

I have recently been doing quite a bit of rewiring on my saloon (factory built). I noticed the wiring cable for electric windows (looks original) is 4 core (Red white black brown) going from cabin into door cavity  but at each end of this cable 2 pairs are joined so effectively 2 core cable connecting motor to centre console switch. Wondering why 4 core cable was used in build? - possible wiring of extra door switch? . The wire gauge looks same on 4 core and switch connection cables so extra load capacity seems unlikely. Currently the switches are wired directly (no relays). New switches and relay operation are going to be fitted. 

list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

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May 25, 2022, 4:32:23 PMMay 25
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@ Jim
The use of 4 core cable may well be for redundancy but my guess is as you say they just used what they had ;-) - that fits with a lot of the other additional wiring where it appears they only ever had 2 wire colors in stock. 
All 4 cores seem to have god continuity so  at least I don't have to replace that as it looks like a pig to do.
Not sure if my window switches are Ford - they look like the generic rectangular electric window 5 pin switch with spade terminals - maybe they have already been replaced once.
I have not measured the load motors draw but my early version copy of build manual show 30A fuse on supply so relays seem a better way than direct - as you say need 2 per side

Looking at regulators I can now see mine  have the 90 degree bend at bottom (what a bodge solution that was LOL) so most likely a failure waiting to happen if not already  in progress!
I recall seeing a drawing detailing window mods (I think you were the authorJim) but cannot find it now.

@Martin
The KA mk1 units look like the best option to me - easily and cheaply available and newer. The cable sections are shorter than the the Fiesta MK3 so the motor mount position would have to move but that is easy enough. Same motor reverse polarity operation via switch (or relay in my case).

With regard motor change I think it should be possible (but probably not cost effective)  - the motor just drives a worm gear but that of course needs to be same on both units. I have taken regulators apart before to replace cables - most of them just wind the cables around a grooved nylon drum. I think in theory you could shorten the cable instead of fitting spacer on sleeve (need to solder on new nipple in correct place). 

I have now confirmed that I have the 90 degree bend units so these definitely need to be replaced.   

John

Steve Kodź

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May 27, 2022, 5:50:40 AMMay 27
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John,

I hope this is the image you remember on the club website.

https://www.quantumowners.club/index.php/faq-qoc/27-faq-saloon/11-qoc-faq-saloon-window-mods

Regards,
Steve

Chris Fairlie

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May 27, 2022, 8:44:54 AMMay 27
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John

 

I can confirm that MK1 KA window regulators can be used. I wrote an article, published on Quantum Mechanics Issue 95 (Autumn 2018) explaining how I fitted them in a 2+2. Later I Andy Heaton and I fitted some to his saloon. The link Steve provided shows how to shorten the runner. The other issue is the KA regulator cables are shorter than the Mk3 Fiesta 3 door units so the motor mounting holes need to be relocated.

 

Regards

 

Chris Fairlie

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list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

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May 28, 2022, 12:52:02 PMMay 28
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Steve
That is the diagram I was after :-)
 For some reason that link on the club website would not work for me the other day.
Many thanks
John

list...@liberator-systems.co.uk

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May 28, 2022, 12:52:17 PMMay 28
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Chris
I read your article the other day which helped convince me KA Mk1 regulators are the best way forward.
Have just managed to source a pair for £28 so looks like a great value upgrade!
Thanks
John
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