Petition re: refugees in Calais

[John Ward]

Dear Friends,

Thank you for welcoming me (back) to Quaker B

It's nice to find some of the old names still here!

I'm here with a mission.

Six thousand men, women and children find themselves stranded in appalling conditions in no-man's-land in Calais and, increasingly, at other locations along the French coast.
"Conditions in the Calais camp known as the Jungle are diabolical, with cramped makeshift tents plagued by rats, water sources contaminated by faeces and inhabitants suffering from tuberculosis, scabies and post-traumatic stress.." reports Amelia Gentleman in The Guardian .

Many of these people are already severely traumatised by the experiences they have already been through. Unaccompanied children, alone and frightened, are regularly beaten by police who also often confiscate their shoes.

Meanwhile, Britain has spent £7M of British taxpayers money erecting a giant fence to make sure that none of these men women and children can seek asylum in the UK 

So I have, together with two other members of Bideford Local Meeting, set up a petition on the campaigning website, Avaaz.  We are asking Prime Minister David Cameron to regard the matter as a humanitarian crisis, and not as a border issue - and to respond accordingly.  There's a link below to the full petition and, if you feel sufficiently in unity with it to sign it, that would be great!  But I am asking more.  We really need to spread the news of this petition, especially as the spotlight has now moved on - to the dreadful events in Paris.  Do you have the time to spread news of the petition to al like-minded groups and individuals with whom you are associated?

You can type http://tinyurl.com/nz7magp into your browser, or click on this link: 

 https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Prime_Minister_David_Cameron_Recognise_Calais_as_a_humanitarian_not_a_border_issue/

With many thanks,and my best wishes to you all,

John Ward

[Bill Chadkirk]

Hi

My, it's an awfully long time since Quaker-B sprang into life! I've already signed a similar petition circulated by 38-Degrees. Since 38 Degrees reaches far wider that any other petition list I would urge you to sign up to that.

Bill

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Bill Chadkirk
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[JOHN WARD]

Hi, Bill

Yes  -38 Degs 2.5 Million (UK only)  Avaaz 1.6 Million in UK, 40+ million worldwide.  The initial intention was to set up petitions on both as well as change.org - each of three of us responsible for one.  What actually happened was that, in preparing what I though was a draft of the Avaaz petition, I suddenly discovered it had gone live and was accumulating signatures.  So the other two Friends decided to run with Avaaz as well and see how it goes.  In fact, we are getting quite a few French signers as well - which we would be unlikely to get with 38 Degs. So there we are.

It is not a good time to be pushing this, in view of the horrible happenings in Paris, and the trumpeting of the news of a tiny number of refugees being brought into the UK as a result of a government initiative.  However, the plight of the growing number of refugees, not only in Calais, but all along the French Channel coast, worsens and, with the onset of winter there are likely to be deaths - especially of children.

But what I am really hoping for is that some who sign the petition will also seek to spread it among groups to which they belong, not to mention among their friends.  Dare I hope that members of Q-B will publicise it among their own meetings - even Area Meetings?

Warm wishes,

John

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[simon gray]

just as a general point, if you want to petition uk government by far the best online engine to use is the official uk parliament petitions engine at https://petition.parliament.uk/ - unlike 38 degrees etc, it has full constitutional acceptance; unlike 38 degrees etc, there's less likelihood of petitions signed by mickey mouse or frank zappa, so the parliamentary system has more confidence they are genuine signatures and thus the petition is a genuine expression of concern; unlike 38 degrees etc, signing a petition on it doesn't sign you up to a mailing list of automated cross-sell 'you signed this petition, you may also like these other petitions' spam, which again means the parliamentary system has confidence the petition is a genuine expression of concern rather than just a whole bunch of people having lazily done a one-click order and forgotten within 10 minutes that they've even signed it.

if you haven't guessed it, i think the likes of 38 degrees etc have far from opened up democracy have in fact anaesthetised us to it - we all click a petition link and change our twitterbook pictures and think we've done our bit, and worse we think everybody else is doing our bit as well.

[Wim Nusselder]

Dear British Quakers & their groupies,

 

As a Quaker I’m doubtful about (feeling Led to seek) influence by numbers anyhow.

Even voting for parliament is primarily an expression of trust in (until now) the party of which I’m a member for me and not a claim on influence.

 

Good to see that Quaker-B still works and holds us at arms length only, available to reach out to each other at any time.

 

With f&Friendly greetings,

 

Wim

[John Ward]

Hi, Simon,

Glad to see you maintain your witness against the use of capital letters (seriously). 

  

You make some good points here, with which I (partially, at least) agree.  But we are where we are.

 

I sign some, but not all of the 38 Degree petitions which reach me, and have been doing so for years.  I don't seem to have become a victim of spamming, though.

But thanks for taking the trouble to respond to my posting.

Best wishes

John

[John Ward]

Hello, Wim -

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for your thoughtful observation, "As a Quaker I’m doubtful about (feeling Led to seek) influence by numbers anyhow."

I won't try and defend our action, nor pick up on particular words in that statement.   Just mull over the matter of seeking influence - for whom, how, and why?

I have passed this on to both of the other Friends involved.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

With best wishes

John

[John Ward]

Hello, Wim

- what is your view about Quakers attending demos - e.g. about Irag war, or climate change (Nov 29th) ?  That, surely, is about influence by numbers, is it not?

Best wishes

John

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 10:17:44 AM UTC, Wim Nusselder wrote:

[Wim Nusselder]

Dear John,

 

Well, obviously Quakers should participate in demos if and when they feel Led to do so.

I haven’t felt Led to do so since a few years after I discovered that I was a Quaker.

If I feel Led to do something, I don’t bother about the purpose or effects of doing so (e.g. influence).

It is not my purpose that counts then.

 

Had you expected another response?

 

With f&Friendly greetings,

 

Wim

[John Ward]

Hello, Simon - re: your observation - "if you haven't guessed it, i think the likes of 38 degrees etc have far from opened up democracy have in fact anaesthetised us to it - we all click a petition link and change our twitterbook pictures and think we've done our bit, and worse we think everybody else is doing our bit as well."

I think I have found 38 Degrees refreshing and, sometimes, exciting.  I feel our "democracy" is now no such thing. We vote, and then discover that what we get is often something quite different from what we thought we were voting for.  Parties put in their manifestos those things which they hope will win them an election.  The manifesto hides two things:  1 a hidden agenda of actions which may prove deeply unpopular (e.g cutting tax credits for low earners) and, 2 the enormous power of vested interests - especially multinational corporate power which, increasingly, dictates government policy (with the support of many MPs, I suspect).  There's no democracy in that.  The current administration governs also by political dogma.  Government of the people, by the people, for the people may never have represented what actually happened, but I think we are further from that now than in (my) living memory.  I wrote to my MP about the plight of the refugees in Calais, suggesting we have some moral responsibility there, and he replied saying how glad he was that David Cameron had agreed to take 20 000 refugees (over 5 years) from Syria. He doesn't listen. He doesn't engage. He simply parrots government policy.  I once wrote to him complaining that he served his party rather than his constituents (following a similarly evasive reply to a letter from me) - and I think he was quite offended.  But, as there seems little point in trying to express my concerns to my democratically elected representative in Parliament, because I am not listened to, and not engaged with; I do find 38 Degrees provides a way in which I may join with like-minded people so that, together, we may be heeded.  And I am sure we are, on some occasions at least.  I may not be a typical 38 Degrees member, but I certainly do not sign every petition they offer me.  And the same goes for Avaaz - in fact, I suspect I may sign fewer than half the Avaaz petitions that arrive in my inbox.  Do you really think that most 38 Degrees members just go clicking petitions and think they have "done their bit"?  The thing is that one becomes aware of so many really serious issues these days, that it is impossible to "do one's bit" by them all.  But is that a reason for not signing a 38 Degrees petition?

If we  were to use the official uk parliament petitions engine, that would mean putting all the info., currently on the 38 Degrees petition page, in emails to people inviting them to sign the Parliament petition.  One could do that, of course.  And I do realise that 38 Degrees is open to abuse - if someone wanted to assume 1000 different identities, with 1000 different email addresses, the they could, theoretically try it.  But do you have any evidence that this happens to any significant extent?  I hope not!

Thanks for engaging with this.

Best wishes

John

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 10:02:13 AM UTC, simon gray wrote: