Using QuadStick Singleton with Xbox Adaptive Controller on PC

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Hi, I found an older thread about combining a QuadStick with an Xbox Adaptive Controller, but I’m not sure which method applies to my setup.

I’m using a QuadStick Singleton on PC. My current setup is:

• Normal Xbox controller
• Xbox Adaptive Controller
• Both used together through Copilot as one controller
• PC gaming

My goal is to add the Singleton so it can act as the left analog stick and a few extra button inputs, while still using my normal Xbox controller/XAC setup through Copilot.

I tried plugging the Singleton directly into the side USB port of the XAC, with external power connected to the XAC, but the Singleton lights flashed very quickly and it didn’t seem to work.

I saw in the older thread that there are different methods, including:

1. QuadStick into the XAC
2. XAC into the QuadStick using a Brook Wingman XE2
3. Xbox Controller Assist/Copilot style using a Brook Wingman XB3 or similar

For my setup on PC, could i have some guidance on which method I should be using and the correct steps to get the Singleton working properly with the XAC/Copilot setup?

Once it is connected, I’d also like to understand how configuration works. For example, if I want to change what the sip/puff inputs do, or adjust joystick sensitivity, do I make those changes by plugging the Singleton into my PC first through QMP/spreadsheets, saving the profile, and then plugging it back into the XAC? Or is there another process I should be following?

Any step-by-step guidance would really help. Thanks.

[Fred Davison]

The Singleton needs to be running a different configuration file for use as a joystick for the XAC than it does for working as a PC mouse.  The XAC will not do anything with a mouse connected the USB ports, it needs a joystick.

Here is an example of a Singleton configuration file for the left USB port of the XAC:  XAC Left USB Port Singleton for someone that is not also using the Singleton as a mouse

Using the Singleton as a joystick for the XAC, and using it for a mouse on a PC are basically different use cases but we can combine them into one configuration file. 

Singleton mouse plus XAC left

It takes the first mode of the regular Mouse profile for the Singleton and the XAC Left joystick and merges them into one config file so you can quickly switch back and forth between the different uses.  It will start up as a mouse, then switch into a left joystick for the XAC with a soft sip.

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[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Thanks, that makes sense. For now, I mainly want the Singleton to act as a joystick for my Xbox Adaptive Controller, rather than using it as a PC mouse.

I downloaded the XAC configuration file to the QuadStick and made it the default profile so it should load automatically when the Singleton powers on. I also have the Xbox Adaptive Controller connected to an external power supply. After that, I unplugged the Singleton from my PC and plugged it into the USB port on the Xbox Adaptive Controller.

However, when I do this, the lights on the Singleton flash very quickly and it still doesn’t seem to control anything through the XAC.

Am I missing another step after loading the XAC profile?

[Fred Davison]

I'm not sure what "flashed very quickly" means.  The lights on the Quadstick should look basically the same as they do on the PC when they go through the startup sequence.   A series of all the lights flashing purple, then red from right to left, then blue from right to left, then #2 and #4 red for about one second, then one purple light.  That is the normal sequence.   If they just continue to flash, then the power is insufficient. 

At this point, the Quadstick is operating in mode 1, as a mouse.  

increment_mode

normal

mp_center_sip_soft

A soft sip, held so the whoooing tone finally ends in a "beep" after about one second will increment the mode to the second mode sheet, which is left joystick for the XAC.   If you hear a "click" instead of a beep when doing a soft input, the pressure was too high and a hard sip/puff was registered.  Beginners often do not hold the sip/puff long enough for a soft input to register.

There are several tutorial videos that cover things like hard vs soft sip/puffs, modes and files, etc:  https://newtutorials.quadstick.com. 

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quadstick/7bd88c1c-709e-4b7f-a634-d0c82de58412n%40googlegroups.com.

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Thanks for explaining. I connected the Xbox Adaptive Controller directly to a wall power supply, and I also checked the power requirements/manual, so I think the power supply should be enough.

I also tried connecting the XAC to my PC by USB instead, but I’m still seeing the same quick flashing on the QuadStick.

Could you suggest what type of power supply is definitely suitable for this setup, just so I can rule out power as the issue?

Also, I’m a bit confused about the mode part. I thought I had set the XAC configuration as the default profile, so I expected it to run the XAC joystick mode straight away when the singleton powers on. Are you saying it still starts in mode 1 as a mouse, and I need to do a soft sip to switch into mode 2 before using it with the XAC?

[Fred Davison]

I've swapped the order of the sheets so it will come up in XAC left joystick mode at power up. 

Re-download the configuration to the Singleton with QMP to have it update the file.   There will be a mouse mode in mode 3.

If the Singleton keeps flashing and restarting, the power is insufficient.  

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Sorry for all the questions, but I think I’m still missing one step somewhere.

I only want to use the Singleton as a joystick on my Xbox Adaptive Controller, so I used the configuration file labelled XAC Left USB Port Singleton.

What I did was:

• Plugged the Singleton into my PC
• Turned Flash mode on
• Downloaded the XAC Left USB Port Singleton file to the QuadStick
• Renamed my old no-flash default profile to something else
• Renamed the XAC Left USB Port Singleton profile to default.csv so it would start automatically when powered on
• Unplugged the Singleton from my PC
• Plugged the Singleton into the left USB port of the Xbox Adaptive Controller

At this point, it starts normally like it does on PC. It goes through the usual flashing and sounds when it powers on, but when I try to use it in a game or test the inputs, it does not seem to do anything through the XAC.

 Any guidance would be really appreciated. Thanks again for your patience.  

[Fred Davison]

You can check the Singleton by plugging it into the PC, then visiting this page:  https://test.quadstick.com  and wiggling the joystick.  You should see axis 0 and axis 1 values change.  Sipping and puffing should cause a couple of the "B" button values to change.   If that is happening, the XAC is the next place to look.   If the axes do not change then the problem is with the Singleton configuration.

Plug the XAC into the PC, and the Quadstick into the left USB port of the XAC and visit that same page.  You should see one of its joysticks move when the joystick is moved.

One thing that just occurred to me is the XAC may expect the Singleton to be in the original USB emulation mode.  If the XAC is not responding to the Singleton, try turning off the PS4 boot mode setting on the Misc tab of QMP:

Uncheck that setting and save preferences.

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Thanks again for the help. I tested the Singleton directly on the PC using the test page you linked, and the axis 0/1 values did change when moving the joystick. A couple of the “B” button values also changed when sipping and puffing, so I don’t think the problem is with the Singleton configuration itself.

I also tried plugging the XAC into the PC and then plugging the Singleton into the left USB port of the XAC while using the same test page, but in that setup none of the singleton inputs seemed to do anything.

I also checked the PS4 boot mode setting in QMP. It was already unchecked, but I saved preferences again just in case.

Current configuration file: XAC Left Joystick

I’m also attaching screenshots of my current setup and configuration in case that helps.

For context, I play on PC using the Xbox Adaptive Controller together with a normal Xbox controller through the official Xbox Wireless Adapter for Windows. Both controllers work together through Copilot, so I’m trying to get the Singleton to act as the left joystick through the XAC within that setup.

[Fred Davison]

Your config files look good.

My guess at this point is some kind of configuration problem with the XAC.  It can map, or not-map, inputs to outputs like the quadstick can, but I'm not familiar with the details.  I've always just used the XAC in its factory default settings and it passes data through.  Maybe the copilot settings can display how it is set up.

It you have another joystick or wired game controller that can be plugged into the left USB port, you could see if that works through the XAC.

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Hi, I think I’m still getting slightly confused between CSV profiles/files and modes/sheets inside one Google spreadsheet, so I wanted to ask this more clearly.

This is the current spreadsheet/configuration I’m working from:

XAC left joystick

Right now, the Singleton is working through the Xbox Adaptive Controller as a joystick, and the hard sip / hard puff inputs are working as button inputs.

What I’d like to do is have two setups inside the same configuration file: one where the Singleton works as a joystick for games where I need movement, and another where it only sends button inputs, with no joystick movement at all. For example, in Rocket League I only want button inputs because the joystick output seems to interfere with my flips/dodges.

How would I set this up properly inside the Google spreadsheet? Also, how do I switch between those modes once they are in the same file? Is that what increment_mode is for?

One other thing: in the current spreadsheet, I have inputs assigned for hard sip, hard puff, soft sip, and soft puff. The hard sip/puff inputs work, but the soft sip/puff inputs don’t seem to send button inputs. That is not urgent because the hard inputs are enough for now, but I’d still like to understand whether this is a limitation of using the Singleton through the Xbox Adaptive Controller, or whether I’m setting something up wrong.

Any guidance on how to structure the spreadsheet/modes would be really helpful.

[Fred Davison]

My guess on the soft sip/puff inputs is you are not holding the soft pressure long enough for it to register.  There is a delay on the soft pressure inputs to allow the pressure to move from zero to the high, or hard, pressure without detecting the soft pressure along the way.  If the soft delay is too short, the hard pressure threshold could never be reached.

The default soft sip/puff delay is 1.3 seconds.   That can seem very long and can be shortened by changing a preference setting.   

Sip or puff softly, hold the pressure while the Singleton is making a variable tone, and wait for the tone to end with a "beep".

Many people shorten this to under a half second to make it quicker.  I've seen 200-300 ms used by many people.

Since you have a specific use-case in mind, I think adding new mode sheets to your existing configuration instead of completely separate CSV files is the right approach.  A configuration file can have up to 16 sheets and switching between modes is easier than between files.

That spreadsheet currently has this row:

increment_mode

delay_on 1000

mp_center_sip_soft

To switch to the second mode sheet, you would sip softly, hold that for 1.3 seconds until the beep, then keep holding the sip for another second (1000 ms) until the mode increments.  

That extra second of delay allows you to use the soft sip to control a button and not switch modes as long as you release the sip before the 1000 ms delay_on expires.

I would go ahead and change cell A2 of the first mode sheet to "default.csv" so when you make changes you can quickly redownload them with QMP and not have to remember to rename xacleft.csv to default.csv.

[Matthew Garcia Botero]

Thanks again for the help. I just wanted to clarify how the mode switching is supposed to work.

At the moment, I have three mode sheets in the configuration: updated spread sheet

• LeftJoystick
• ButtonsOnly
• Commands

On both the LeftJoystick and ButtonsOnly sheets, the increment_mode row is labelled “Go to Commands mode,” which makes me think that holding soft sip sends me into the Commands sheet first.

For my current setup, I only really need two modes: one with joystick + buttons, and one with buttons only. I don’t really need the extra Commands features such as loading another CSV file.

Do I need to keep the Commands sheet in order to switch between LeftJoystick and ButtonsOnly, or can I delete the Commands sheet and have soft sip switch directly between those two modes? If I can remove it, is there anything else I need to change in the increment_mode rows?

Many thanks

[Fred Davison]

Hi Matthew,

You are getting the hang of it.  You can delete that sheet.  Since Google Docs keeps a copy of every version of a spreadsheet, you can always revert back to an earlier version.

Since you are not using the Singleton for basic PC mouse control, you do not need to have a "load_file" command row, or a mode that includes it.   You can leave the actual CSV files for the standard mouse configs in the flash, they will just set there and can be available if you ever decide to use it that way.

With only two modes, increment_mode or decrement_mode gets you to the same result.   In both modes, holding a soft sip after the beep will result in changing to the other mode.  Just leave row 4 as-is in both modes.

Another way to keep a back up copy of known good configurations is to keep a copy of the CSV files in the Singleton's flash drive in a folder on your hard drive.  You can quickly restore and recover from a config change gone-wrong that way.

Fred

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