PC, QS and Cronus Zen question

[glenn....@gmail.com]

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone could give me some info re the Zen, PC and QS.

I use the QS with an US360 and 1 button input only on PC and I use the PC daily for normal work and gaming.  99% of games I play I use the QS in K/M mode and have only recently started playing Fifa 21/22 in controller mode (Xbox).

I only play Fifa in player career mode and because of lack of dexterity and slow movements I cannot do any skill moves.

So my question is could a Zen be used to script right stick motion ranges eg forward then half circle right? 

If it can I know the QS has to be in PS4 mode to work with the Zen, so would I need to remove the Zen every time I want to use the QS in K/M or Xbox mode? 

I don't want to have to physically connect or remove the Zen every time I want to play Fifa.

Thanks for your help

[glenn....@gmail.com]

No one knows?

Think I am going to need a USB switch switch, anyone recommend a USB switch with an external selector switch?

[Dan NH]

I also tried doing the USB selector switch route, and the one I had did not work. If you find one that works, do share.

[Fred Davison]

Most USB switches are actually hubs, which is different from a simple metallic switch.  A hub is fine for a PC, but not for a T2.  I don't know of any switches like that.

Since you are using the US360 in the USB-A port, it is not available to provide a second USB connection to an alternate host.

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[Glenn Manning]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for your reply, it's greatly appreciated.

To use the Zen with the QS and PC don't I attach the Zen to the PC using the back console port on the Zen and connect the QS from the USB-B port to the A2 port on the Zen?

[Fred Davison]

You can use two cables, one for the output of the Zen and the other for the Prog port.

If A2 doesn't work, try the other.

[Glenn Manning]

So I can use the Zen with the QS and a US360?

[Fred Davison]

Yes

[Glenn Manning]

But in that setup I won't be able to use the QS for mouse functions on my PC when I'm not gaming, I will have to physically disconnect the Zen every time I want to use the QS as a mouse, is that right?

[Fred Davison]

Yes, it will have to be physically disconnected.

USB-A and B connectors have a limited lifetime of about 1500 insertions.  Arrange your workflow to minimize the wear on the quadstick's connectors.

[Glenn Manning]

Thanks Fred,

If I get a USB KVM switch I should be able to have both devices connected all the time and switch between them, something like this if I can find one with an external selector switch I can hit with my hand: https://www.ugreen.com/products/2-in-4-out-usb-3-0-sharing-switch-box

Would it work if I have the QS from the USB-B port plugged into the front IN port of the switch, then connect Switch connection number 1 straight to the PC, then connect Switch connection number 2 to the A2 port on the Zen and the Zen to the PC.  Then to use the QS on its own I would be on Switch selector 1 and to use the QS through the Zen I would be on Switch selector 2.  Would that work?

[Fred Davison]

Those devices are not simple metallic switches.  They are USB hubs.  Each USB cable connection has a Host at one end and a Device at the other.  The hub acts like a Device to the Host, and as a Host to the Device(s) that connect to it.  They act like repeaters, but the Host (ie, the PC), must be able to work with a hub between it and the final Device.  PC's and game consoles can work with a hub, Zen's and T2's cannot work with a hub on their input sides.

USB cables are more complicated than just four wires.  They are impedance controlled transmission lines that can carry up to a 5GB/s data stream. 

[Glenn Manning]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the explanation but I hope it works otherwise I will have to sell the Zen lol.  The Cronus Zen site recommends using one so you can don't have to have two keywords/mice for the PC https://guide.cronusmax.com/devices/mouse-and-keyboard

I just found one on Amazon so I will let you know if it all works out.

Thanks for your help

[glenn....@gmail.com]

Hi Fred,

I just received the Zen and thought I would try it out but I can't get it to detect, I was wondering if you would know how to set the Zen up on PC when using the QS and US360?  I think I have tried all possible combinations but I can't get the PC to recognise the QS through the Zen in joy.cpl

I have the QS in Enable boot in PS4 USB mode and I am connecting straight to the PC, I'm not using a USB switch. 

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

[pike...@gmail.com]

Use the medium cord plug it into the top and then plug it into the PC then plug in the QS to the bottom left port  follow this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yrL4V0OEso

[glenn....@gmail.com]

Hi Pike,  thanks so much that worked perfectly.  Only when I connect the Zen to the PC using the console port and the Prog port Zen Studio detects it as a PS4 and not an Xbox like the video says it should?  Have you seen this before?

[glenn....@gmail.com]

Hi Pike, I was wondering if you know how to fix the problem of non of the Zen scripts working when using the QS but they work when using a controller? 

Thanks for your help.

[Fred Davison]

What Zen script are you using and which ports are the controller and quadstick plugged into?

[Glenn Manning]

I'm using the Fifa 21 Right Stick Skills pack and I have the skills ON/OFF modifier as LS.  I had to hard set the Emulator Output Protocol to Xbox 360 in Zen Studio otherwise I couldn't get the output to work in the Device Monitor on Zen Studio.

The QS is in the A2 port and I have tried a controller in both the A2 and A1 port.  Everything on the QS works but nothing happens when I hold in LS, which I have bound to digital_in_1 and then move the right stick which I have bound to USB_1.

[Fred Davison]

Share your config spreadsheet.

You have to tell Zens and T2s what output protocol to use when connecting the output to a PC.  They can auto detect the correct protocol for the different consoles but not the PC.

[Glenn Manning]

Here's the config sheet I'm using https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sjPK2xAuFbhBOdyOlvrXAyYmWVzYuj21O6LBZ-EeMB4/edit?usp=sharing

[Glenn Manning]

I just enabled "Boot in PS4 Mode" in QMP and changed enable_DS3_emulation in the preferences to 1.  Zen Studio detects and outputs work in Device Monitor, normal use is detected and works in the game but nothing still for the scripts

[Fred Davison]

Try removing this line from your preferences:

enable_DS3_emulation

3

0=Normal composite device mode, 1=Dual Shock 3 emulation, 2=X360CE mode, 3=XBox 360 emulation

Do not set the emulation mode in a preference sheet when using T2's or CM Zen's or CM Max's.  Always turn on "Boot in PS4 mode".

On the T2 turn on Titan Two PS4 flag.  That disables the PS4 authentication code in the Quadstick.

Set your digital input to also turn on a green led so you can get some feedback:

left_stick

normal

digital_in_1

digital_out_1

normal

digital_in_1

[Glenn Manning]

Hi Fred,

I removed the line and I couldn't get any output within Zen Studio Device Monitor.  I tried changing the output drop down but that didn't do anything.  I also noticed that after removing the line the QS was detected as a joypad in Zen Studio and the mouse also had a question mark next to it?

Do I have to have the Emulator Output Protocol in Zen Studio set to anything in particular?  I have it set to Xbox 360 at the moment. 

I'm not sure what to change on the Zen because I couldn't find PS4 flag setting?

[Fred Davison]

The Zen firmware is frequently updated and things may have changed since I last tested it.

It should work with modes 0,1,3,4,6 & 7.  It definitely will not work with 2 or 5.

If they are getting confused by the mouse interface on modes 0, 4 and 6, they may need to be avoided.

1 is DS3, which gives you pressure sensitive buttons and basic motion controls.

3 is XBox 360.

7 is DS4, which gives you access to the touch pad and full motion controls.

If using mode 7, you may need to turn on the Titan 2 flag to prevent the quadstick from trying to authenticate with the PS4 by resetting the connection every 7.5 minutes.

Mode 4, which is the "Boot in PS4 USB mode" setting, does several different things to detect what it is plugged into.  It can detect a CronusMax Plus, a Titan 2, PS3, PS4, or PC, and configure itself accordingly.  It switches to mode 1 for PS3 and 7 for PS4 or T2, but for PC and CronusMax Plus it stays in mode 4.   The CMP will only allow one connection per power cycle, so we have to start in that mode.    The others will allow multiple reconnections as we change modes.

Anyway, long story short, try 7, since that would be the most universal, and fall back to 1 or 3.

For the Zen output protocol setting, I think XBox One would be preferable to XBox 360 to work with newer games and the XBox app or remote play on the PC.

[Glenn Manning]

Thanks Fred,

I think I have tried everything and I just can't get the Zen to apply the scripts.  When I have the Zen output protocol set to Xbox One the Zen recognises the output in Device Monitor but none of the games detect a controller.

I just don't know what else to do?

[Fred Davison]

Have you searched/asked in their forums?  I would think there would be something there about using the Zen with the PC as a controller.

[Glenn Manning]

I asked on their forum last night and just waiting for their response.

On another note, I'm trying to add the reset_quadstick command to the default.csv (Mouse2 config sheet) of my QS because the issue with my QS sip function not working happens every time I boot my PC now.  I don't have access to edit the default.csv and I was wondering if I could please have access to edit it or if you could please add reset_quadstick, delay_on 1000, lip?  Thank you 

[Fred Davison]

You start by making your own copy of an existing configuration file:

http://www.quadstick.com/blog/2014/10/31/how-do-i-make-my-own-game-configuration-profile

More information can be found in the User Manual.

http://quadstick.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/user_manual/um/google_drive_spreadsheets.htm

Also, Jeffrey Zaragoza (SteamyBiscuit) has made several tutorial videos on a variety of topics that might be useful.

[Glenn Manning]

I didn't know that I would be able to replace the default.csv with my own file, but I will now thanks for your help.

[Glenn Manning]

I'm adding the reset_quadstick command under the column Output or Function and it says it's Invalid must be an item on the specified list, does this matter?

[Fred Davison]

It is ok.  Here is an example:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11o0DMwMv6S11WcMeY3QHl1PUG0evclwo2_74PMNTdlY/edit#gid=229002792

In fact you can load that config into your quadstick and test the idea before making changes to you main configs.

[Glenn Manning]

OK great, thank you.

[Glenn Manning]

Hi Fred,

I have a weird issue with my game files, this is what I currently have in my QS:

When I click on 1 default.csv Mouse2 and click Open Configuration Spreadsheet the sheet opens but under Profile Name in column A cell 2 it says mouse.csv?  Also when I click on 7 zdefault.csv Default Configuration and click Open Configuration Spreadsheet the sheet opens but under Profile Name in column A cell 2 it says default.csv?  

When I made a copy of 1 default.csv Mouse2 added reset_quadstick and uploaded it to the QS it loaded in as mouse.csv?

Any suggestions?

[Fred Davison - QuadStick]

Rename mouse.csv to default.csv using Windows Explorer.

For the future, change the name in your Mouse2 A2 cell to default.csv

When people order the quadstick set up for a PC, the Default Configuration's default.csv is renamed to zdefault.csv and the Mouse2 configuration's mouse.csv is renamed to default.csv so that it is running automatically at power up.

In you own copies of those configurations, you can change the A2 cell to name the CSV file anything you want.

[Glenn Manning]

OK, thanks again for your help.

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[Glenn Manning]

Hi Fred,

I think I have it all worked out and I am going to post my config in case anyone else is interested.  The new firmware on the Zen or QS may have changed a few things because I have it all working without having to put the QS in Boot in PS4 Mode.

I do have a strange issue I'm hoping you can help me with though.  To change the memory/profile slot on the Zen via a connected controller the command is XBOX Button + BACK, which on the QS inputs Guide + Back.

I've configured it properly and it works, however the exact same command launches the Steam Big Picture Mode on-screen controller keyboard and I can't control anything.

I think I have disabled everything I can in Steam and BPM even removing all the controller shortcuts but nothing works and the key combo still launches the keyboard?

Would you know how to disable it, I've Google'd and tried anything and everything.

Thanks for your help.

[Glenn Manning]

I figured it out I had to delete all the controller shortcuts in the Steam Chord config.

[QuadStick]

I managed to get a Zen and am testing it with my quadstick.

Running 2328 on the quadstick and the Zen's FW is updated to 2.0.11.   Its output is set to PC/mobile (which is "xinput").  The Zen is connected to the PC with both its output and Prog ports.  The quadstick is connected to the Zen via the USB-B port.

Emulation modes 1,3,4 & 7 all worked with the Zen.  Emulation mode 4 is the "Boot in PS4 USB mode" setting.  With that setting off, which is emulation mode 0, the Zen only sees the mouse interface and treats it as right stick.  In mode 4 it sees the mouse interface but that doesn't cause trouble.

Turning on the Titan 2 PS4 flag is also a good idea to prevent the quadstick from trying to authenticate.

I tried both front Zen sockets (A2 & A3) with the same results. 

Next, I connected the QS USB-B port to the PC, turned off USB-A host mode, and connected the QS USB-A port to the Zen A3 port with an A-to-A cable.

After powering up the Quadstick with "Boot in PS4 USB mode" turned on, then switching from USB-B to USB-A, the Zen would not respond to the QS controller outputs, which I think was your original complaint.   (It would respond to the mouse output but we don't want to use that)  Changing the emulation mode to 1,3,4 or 7 would make it work.

Here's what is going on:  When the quadstick powers up in USB mode 4 while connected to a PC, it detects that the host is a PC, sets an internal flag, and switches to mode 0.  Once the PC flag is set internally, switching the connection from port B to A, the PC flag is not reset so the code thinks the Zen is still a PC and the Zen only sees the mouse interface.   Changing the emulation mode to 1,3,7, or even 4 again, will let things work.   When the emulation mode is changed, the PC flag is reset, so mode 4 will work but as long as you are setting the emulation, 7 would be my recommendation to get the fullest range of outputs. 

Regarding the Zen not running scripts:  Make sure the Zen mode is "Operational" and not "Tournament"