High Sierra

[Weston Bustraan]

Just a heads up, I've had two people let me know that the app crashes on startup on High Sierra. I have a special test build out to those two to see it fixes the issue. If it does, I'll get a new build ready this evening.

- Wes, W8WJB

[Weston Bustraan]

Good to hear that Big Sur works. I'm still on Catalina. I was going to wait until we've shaken the bugs out enough before I upgrade. The units should default to your macOS regional settings set in your System Preferences, rather than by location. So, for example, I wouldn't want a French speaker to get stuck with English just because they happen to live in a English speaking country.

You won't need to ever enter a passcode to connect to APRS-IS. There are two states:

- Unlicensed: QTH.app connects to APRS-IS using the "NOCALL" identifier and you can receive but not send

- Licensed: Once you've imported a license, you will be able to choose a licensed callsign using the drop down in the Station Preferences. It automatically uses this callsign and the associated passcode to connect to APRS-IS.

If it's green, you're connected. However, if you're not getting any packets, you may need to adjust your filter.

In fact, I think I know what's happening. The default filter for a brand new APRS-IS connection is set to "[include] [packets in radius] XXX <distance> [from current location]". This corresponds to a "m/dist" filter which is described as "This is the same as the range filter except that the center is defined as the last known position of the logged in client." Since you aren't able to transmit, the server does not have a last known position for you and so it isn't sending you packets.

I should probably change the default filter for unlicensed users. I am open to suggestions from the group as to what would be a good starter filter.

One filter that I use frequently is "[include] [packets in area] [visible map boundaries]". However, just be aware that if you are looking at a very busy region, such as central europe, just be aware that you will be drinking from the firehose; i.e. your map will fill up quickly! I sometimes use this to stress test QTH.

As far as location and height go, those are located in the QTH Preferences. Go to the menu for QTH.app -> Preferences.. or press (Cmd-,). and I think you should find what you're looking for.

- Wes, W8WJB

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 1:12 PM Andy McMullin <andy.m...@icloud.com> wrote:

Hi,

Well it appears to load and run just fine on Big Sur 11.3 Beta. It even showed me the map of the UK (and set my units to metric) which I assume was based upon the Apple position indication. There was no complaint from the OS about uncertificated applications, or anything else. Well done!

However, without a licence it does not seem to let me set up APRS-IS as a source. I can add a connection but I cannot give it my callsign or APRS reference (passcode) to allow it to start receiving. It’s green (not dimmed Red) but there’s nothing. As an aside, I didn’t find where I might manually enter my location and height either. I checked the on-line help but it doesn’t seem to mention the concept.

I will sort out a TNC-2 tomorrow.

Regards

Andy, G8TQH

On 15 Feb 2021, at 17:54, Weston Bustraan <wbus...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just a heads up, I've had two people let me know that the app crashes on startup on High Sierra. I have a special test build out to those two to see it fixes the issue. If it does, I'll get a new build ready this evening.

- Wes, W8WJB

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[Kevin Reeve]

I have downloaded and installed on my Mac Book Pro.  No issues.  

As to filter. I like the idea of the visible map view boundaries.  When I launched the app, it had my location pin pointed and that I believe is a good starting point to see APRS traffic.

Looking forward to testing .

Kevin

[Weston Bustraan]

Ah, yes, the Locale settings in macOS aren't very fine grained. Basically, QTH.app consults NSLocale.current.usesMetricSystem and sets the defaults accordingly. For countries that use a mixture, they will probably have to override the defaults in Preferences.

Generally, your location will come from 3 different potential sources:

1. macOS Location Services - This is the default, but from your screenshot, I can see that it is disabled. If you want to enable it, it is in System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Location Services. I will likely have to include some sort of link or something that will direct people there, because I can see this being a FAQ. This is generally in the "good enough" category; Macs don't have GPS chips like iOS devices, so they use WiFi triangulation to figure out your location.

2. Manual Entry - Go to QTH Preferences -> Beacon and change Source from Location Services to Manual and then enter the lat/lon that you want.

3. External GPS - Add a GPS Connection in connections

However, even if QTH does know your location, without the ability to transmit, an APRS-IS server won't be able to display stations in a radius around you.

If you want to show packets in a radius around a specific point, you can also add a filter to an APRS-IS connection of: "[Include] [packets in radius] XXX <distance> [from location] [enter lat/lon]" This would be the equivalent to a r/lat/lon/dist filter, except that you will be able to enter the distance in whatever your chosen units are and it will convert them to the km that server expects.

- Wes, W8WJB

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 3:06 PM Andy McMullin <andy.m...@icloud.com> wrote:

Thanks for that. Interesting about the system preferences. I can’t work out though why it would choose metric (Km and cm) when we measure in miles in the UK. I’ll look a little more.

cmd - just zooms out the map.

Preferences allows me to enter a height, but not a location (see screen shot below). I’ll try playing with the filters.

Regards

Andy

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[Jörg Schultze-Lutter]

>2. Manual Entry - Go to QTH Preferences -> Beacon and change Source from Location Services to Manual and then enter the lat/lon that you want.

I've just created a ticket in Bitbucket wrt this topic. Can you give an indication on what kind of format ist supposed to be used here? I've tried various formats (DMS, Lat/Lon, Grid) with space/comma/slash separators but none of them seem to be working. A simple example will suffice. Thanks.

Thanks

Joerg

[Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

On 2/15/2021 1:45 PM, Weston Bustraan wrote:

In fact, I think I know what's happening. The default filter for a brand new APRS-IS connection is set to "[include] [packets in radius] XXX <distance> [from current location]". This corresponds to a "m/dist" filter which is described as "This is the same as the range filter except that the center is defined as the last known position of the logged in client." Since you aren't able to transmit, the server does not have a last known position for you and so it isn't sending you packets.

It's been a while since I test this, but I think you will find that a non-verified APRS-IS connection prevents forwarding received packets from that connection to the rest of the network.  But if you send a location beacon packet for the logged on station, then it will locally use that position for the m/ filter.  But that only works if the logon callsign-SSID actually transmits a matching position beacon.

Since you seem to be using NOCALL as the logon (which isn't going to work due to duplicate logon detection on the servers), you'd have to transmit a NOCALL position packet for the m/ filter to work.

So, I'm suggesting you might want to reconsider NOCALL and actually have the user specify a unique CALLSIGN-SSID for use in both the logon and a position packet, but continue to issue a -1 password which will prevent propagation to the network, but will allow the m/ filter to "just work".

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  You can see the issue with multiple NOCALL logons if you simply use telnet to connect to port 14580 on a single server (not a rotate DNS name) from multiple sessions.  As each new one connects and logs on, then earlier sessions will be disconnected as "orphans".

[Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)]

On 2/15/2021 2:24 PM, Kevin Reeve wrote:
>
> I have downloaded and installed on my Mac Book Pro.  No issues.
> As to filter. I like the idea of the visible map view boundaries. 
> When I launched the app, it had my location pin pointed and that I
> believe is a good starting point to see APRS traffic.
> Looking forward to testing .

I did the map border automatic filter one time and it was a mistake.  If
you zoom out to a whole continent, or worse, the whole planet, most
clients simply go belly-up or non-responsive due to the flood of
received traffic.

If you go this route, I'd suggest a lat/lon range limit on the center of
the map just out of pure self-defense.

I don't know if the QTH app supports a user-specified APRS-IS filter,
but if you want to see this effect, just add a filter of p/W or
some-such and hold your breath.

[Weston Bustraan]

Interesting. Is the "duplicate login detection" documented anywhere? That is the first I have heard of that.

I was thinking that NOCALL would be ok to connect as in a receive-only manner. But if the servers actively disconnect people, then that's a problem.

[Steve Dimse]

I think the problem is most APRS Internet Servers are configured not to accept logins unless there is a matching call/pass. Most, but not all, so sometimes using rotate names you might get one that will start feeding data.

[Andy McMullin]

Just a quick one (well three actually)….

What’s the format for entering a manual lat/long in option 2 below? I’ve tried the usual variations and it doesn’t like any of them.

Similarly, what’s the format for entering it in the example of [include] [packets in radius] XXX <distance> [from location] [ENTER LAT/LON]?

Finally, why can I only enter a single digit in the distance field?

Cheers

Andy, G8TQH

  

On 15 Feb 2021, at 20:35, Weston Bustraan <wbus...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, yes, the Locale settings in macOS aren't very fine grained. Basically, QTH.app consults NSLocale.current.usesMetricSystem and sets the defaults accordingly. For countries that use a mixture, they will probably have to override the defaults in Preferences.

Generally, your location will come from 3 different potential sources:

1. macOS Location Services - This is the default, but from your screenshot, I can see that it is disabled. If you want to enable it, it is in System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Location Services. I will likely have to include some sort of link or something that will direct people there, because I can see this being a FAQ. This is generally in the "good enough" category; Macs don't have GPS chips like iOS devices, so they use WiFi triangulation to figure out your location.

2. Manual Entry - Go to QTH Preferences -> Beacon and change Source from Location Services to Manual and then enter the lat/lon that you want.

3. External GPS - Add a GPS Connection in connections

However, even if QTH does know your location, without the ability to transmit, an APRS-IS server won't be able to display stations in a radius around you.

If you want to show packets in a radius around a specific point, you can also add a filter to an APRS-IS connection of: "[Include] [packets in radius] XXX <distance> [from location] [enter lat/lon]" This would be the equivalent to a r/lat/lon/dist filter, except that you will be able to enter the distance in whatever your chosen units are and it will convert them to the km that server expects.

- Wes, W8WJB

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 3:06 PM Andy McMullin <andy.m...@icloud.com> wrote:

Thanks for that. Interesting about the system preferences. I can’t work out though why it would choose metric (Km and cm) when we measure in miles in the UK. I’ll look a little more.

cmd - just zooms out the map.

Preferences allows me to enter a height, but not a location (see screen shot below). I’ll try playing with the filters.

Regards

Andy

<Screenshot 2021-02-15 at 20.04.32.png>

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[Weston Bustraan]

Well, it is _supposed to_ accept almost any form of latitude and longitude, including UTM. It did at one point, but sounds like it might have gotten broken at some point along the line. I will check into it.

[Weston Bustraan]

Are you putting any kind of separator between the latitude and longitude? Or just a space?

I went out to Google Maps, dropped a pin, and copied and pasted the two sets of coordinates from the sidebar:

42°57'31.5"N 85°40'51.1"W

I had to add a comma between them and then it accepted it

42.958758, -85.680860

This already had a comma, so it worked right away.

If it's common practice to omit the comma, I can see about enhancing the parsing routine. Right now, it just splits it at the comma and then parses both parts.

[Jörg Schultze-Lutter]

With QTH 0.1.0 (1) (haven't applied the update yet) - I simply copied the values from your previous post:

Locale settings:

[Jörg Schultze-Lutter]

For completeness sake - QTH.app v0.1.1 has the same issues with entering these coordinates. 

Suggestion: set up a separate MacOS installation from scratch (e.g. external hard drive) and perform a test run of the app on that OS installation. Alternatively, a debug message (e.g. system log) might be helpful to understand what's going on here.

[Weston Bustraan]

Yep, looks like I'll have to go the external drive route. That will let me test other Big Sur differences, like the distance box being too small.

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