Kenwood TH-D74A testing result

[Kevin Reeve]

Today I decided to see if I could get QTH and the Kenwood TH-D74A talking to each other.

Kenwood in KISS mode

QTH is able to serial connect via bluetooth.  With the Kenwood in KISS mode and KISS mode assigned to bluetooth on the radio, I am receiving packets just fine and they are displaying on the QTH map.

I am however unable to get a beacon to cause the radio to transmit.

I have verified that the checkbox for TX on the Connections window is selected

I have verified under Beacon in Preferences that Scope is set to Local, and Beacon is enabled.  

Log file does verify it is doing a transmit.

I will keep playing.  It might be another setting on the D74 radio I need to do.  Not sure but will keep playing.  If you own a D74 and have any ideas let me know.

Kevin - N7RXE

[Weston Bustraan]

Well, quite honestly, I'm thrilled that it's decoding packets. Receiving is vastly more difficult than transmitting, because the code has to handle input that you don't control whereas, with transmitting, the code is fully in control of what gets sent.

Unfortunately, I don't own a TH-D74A; I really wish I did; it sounds like a sweet radio. I had no idea that it supported KISS over Bluetooth. I would assume, however, that sending KISS packets to the TH-D74A should be almost identical to sending it to a Mobilinkd.

- Wes, W8WJB

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[Mitch Smith]

Kevin, I was able to finally get my TH-D74 to transmit (as you already know). Here's the settings that it used to get it to work on my 2012 Mac mini running macOS Mojave (10.14.6). 

I'm sure some of these aren't necessary, and my not be correct, but I figured I tell you everything I have it set to currently.

On the radio, make sure you have it set to KISS 12. When I was playing with the settings in QTH, it changed on my radio to KISS 96 and quit transmitting.

In Preferences:

• Beacon Tab
  
  • Enable Beacon: checked
  • Content tab
  • Source: Location Services (apparently it doesn't want to pass GPS data over the bluetooth connection, but I'm going to test a few things after this)
  • Position: Mic-Encoded
  • Altitude: Checked
  • Indicate Messaging Enabled: Checked
  • Mic-E Status: In Service
  • Data Extension: Course/Speed
  • Rate tab
    • Interval (selected)
      • Fixed: 60 sec

Connections:

• Connection Type: KISS Serial TNC
  • Port: TH-D74-SerialPort
  • Device: Generic
  • Baud: 9600

Good luck, and let us know if you are able to get it to beacon!

—Mitch, N7USU 

[Kevin Reeve]

Mitch - N7USU got on Zoom with me and I was able to get a beacon out from QTH over the Kenwood TH-D74A.

So now I am able to connect to the mobilnkd tnc 3 and the TH-D74A through bluetooth from the mac computer  and use QTH.  

This is very cool!

[Weston Bustraan]

This made my day :)

Just to clarify, are you connecting to the TH-D74A _through_ the Mobilinkd or are you connecting to _both_ via Bluetooth?

- Wes, W8WJB

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qthapp-users/f3835bf0-908e-4934-97cc-b2a2a8a1b83dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Weston Bustraan]

Mitch,

I'm curious about the statement, "apparently it doesn't want to pass GPS data over the bluetooth connection". When in KISS mode, is a TH-D74 able to send GPS data over the connection somehow? I'm going to have to download the TH-D74 manual and see how that might work. 

- Wes, W8WJB

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[Mitch Smith]

Sorry, I meant to respond to this last night and then unexpected things came up. 

I was thinking that the TH-D74 was able to send the GPS data over Bluetooth (as well as the serial data) because I thought that was the way it worked with APRSIS32. I haven't used that program since last year, because Windows (gross). It wasn't until your question that I realized it only works when the radio is set to "APRS 12" mode and not "KISS 12" mode. Sorry about that confusion... I haven't used this radio paired with a computer for a while.

—Mitch, N7USU 

[Kevin Reeve]

Hello Wes,

Through Bluetooth from Mac to Radio.  

Kevin 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2021, at 16:20, Weston Bustraan <wbus...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Weston Bustraan]

Mitch,

I did some looking in the manual for the TH-D74 and found the answer to my puzzle. I found screenshots showing that you can configure it so that GPS, APRS, and KISS are all set with Bluetooth as the output interface. A KISS data stream and a GPS (NMEA) data stream use different data delimiters, so I was curious to know how Kenwood may have multiplexed the data in a single serial stream. As it turns out, it appears they don't. According to the manual: "Output stops when the mode becomes KISS mode or DV/DR mode. Output resumes once KISS mode or DV/ Dr mode ends."

Since they didn't mention "APRS" mode, it may mean that they are able to multiplex the APRS and GPS streams together. Those two formats are likely more compatible, since it's just ASCII data terminated by line endings. Kenwood's "APRS" mode is receive-only, but having the GPS data come through as well might be a very convenient solution for some people.

I haven't implemented a non-KISS TNC connection type yet because I haven't had a device to test with. I talked with my wife and she agreed we can start setting aside money for a TH-D74, since it appears to be the pinnacle of APRS units. However, until then, if you can send me some sample data, I can work on a parser for it.

You should be able to drop into Terminal and run:

dd count=2048 if=/dev/cu.TH-D74-SerialPort | gzip > ~/Desktop/capture.gz

This will capture about 2Kb of data from the port, compress it, and save it to a file on your desktop. If you want to do that with just APRS mode turned on and then with both APRS and GPS mode on, send me the files and I can get to work on a parser.

One last thing, if you do want to use the GPS and KISS modes at the same time, you could potentially hook up a USB cable and configure one of them go out Bluetooth and the other out the USB cable. So for example, if you chose GPS over Bluetooth and KISS over USB, you would create a "KISS Serial TNC" connection and choose the USB port and then a "Serial GPS" connection and choose the Bluetooth port.

- Wes, W8WJB

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qthapp-users/f488d447-7df7-4c52-81ee-73cfd3d74c9an%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael Wolthuis]

Wes,

If you want to borrow my TH-d74a for a few weeks, glad to loan it out and drop it off.

 

It is my favorite radio for APRS by far.  I wish everyone would beg Kenwood to release it as a mobile.

 

I use it for pairing via VMWare Fusion on my MAC to Windows for Winlink Express 1200/9600bps.  I also use it for APRS whenever I am out on a walk.

 

Now, also, another fun device to look at that has Bluetooth and Serial is - https://www.venus-itech.com/product/x1c5-plus-aprs-tracker/

If you would like to borrow one – I have one you can borrow since I am local.

 

Just let me know.

 

Mike

Kb8zgl

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[Weston Bustraan]

Michael,

Thanks for the offer! For the time being, I think we can try the capture file method. The challenge is that, while it would be a lot simpler to test with having it connected directly to my development machine, the area that I live in has very little APRS traffic. It's likely that whatever someone else captures in their area will be much more interesting than the radio silence I have here, lol. 

It's a shame; the nearby national forest (with spotty cell coverage) is just the kind of location where APRS really shines. I aim to remedy that in the future and put up my own digi/igate. Just have to get a 2m antenna on my tower.

I think I'm going to pick up one of those X1C5 trackers, myself. Our local Newaygo CERT team has several of the Byonics MicroTrak AIO units, but they're pretty big and bulky compared to that little unit. Cheaper, too.

- Wes, W8WJB

[Michael Wolthuis]

So can you guys tell me what I may be missing?  Have my th-d74a set in KISS 12, have it connected on Bluetooth, have my port set per below.  I can’t get it to send a beacon..

 

Mike

Kb8zgl

 

 

From: "qthapp...@googlegroups.com" <qthapp...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mitch Smith <pxls...@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, April 16, 2021 at 5:27 PM
To: qthapp-users <qthapp...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kenwood TH-D74A testing result

 

Kevin, I was able to finally get my TH-D74 to transmit (as you already know). Here's the settings that it used to get it to work on my 2012 Mac mini running macOS Mojave (10.14.6). 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qthapp-users/8b50e54c-343f-4c62-9821-a9a6e610f1ddn%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael Wolthuis]

Got it working, had beacon set for Internet only, moving to ALL fixed.

Thanks!

Mike

 

 

From: "qthapp...@googlegroups.com" <qthapp...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kevin Reeve <kevi...@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, April 18, 2021 at 9:24 PM
To: Weston Bustraan <wbus...@gmail.com>
Cc: qthapp-users <qthapp...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Kenwood TH-D74A testing result

 

Hello Wes,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qthapp-users/720685DC-CD12-41D5-BEB7-794D7DE29BD2%40gmail.com.

[Larrie]

I have a follow up question on connecting the TH-D74A to QTH via Bluetooth.  I have not had any luck in getting this to work.  Radio is paired to via bluetooth.

Settings: MacBook Air, OS 14.1

Radio set to KISS 12

Interface is Bluetooth for KISS

On QTH settings

KISS serial

Port:  TH-D74

Radio:  Generic

Baud:  9600

No packets are received by QTH.  I have no transmit.  All settings seem to be as given in this topic stream.  I did notice that in posts below, the port was listed as TH-D74A-SerialPort.  No such option show up for me but that may just to different OS versions being used.  Any thoughts on what I am missing?  Thank you.

Larrie, AF7NU

[Dustin Green]

Any update...I'm in the same boat.  QTH won't receive anything using my D74.  I'm using my M2 MacBook.  The only setting that is different is 1200 baud instead of 9600.

Thanks, 

Dustin

[Gunnar René Øie (gunnar)]

I figured it out and got it working on an M3 MacBook Pro 2023 running MacOs Sequoia 15.0.1 (24A348). 

There's a very particular pairing process you have to go through to get it working on a new Mac. It's easy to get it "wrong" and trick QTH app into thinking it is connected, but without any packets going in or out. I suspect it's a bug in MacOS, or a security settig, but I haven't tried Xastir to see if the issue is in QTH app only. 

My old intel Mac with macOS Big Sur was not this finnicky. I didn't give up on this because I knew that QTH app had worked with the TH-D74 on Big Sur. 

Symptoms:

• QTH app claims to be connected to the TH-D74 via KISS
• Radio doesn't actually show that the Mac is connected - no status message or Bluetooth icon, unless you connect to the radio via the Bluetooth menu in macOS. You should not have to do that - the radio should show a connection when the connection is initiated in QTH app.
• Transmit beacon seems to work - an orange transmit bar appears and the debug log shows transmitted packets, but the radio never actually transmits.
• The radio is tuned to the APRS frequency and you can see the green light or even hear the APRS packets, but the incoming packets never appear in QTh app or in the debug log.

Solution: 

• Quit QTH app if open.
• Go to the Mac system settings > Privacy & Security > Bluetooth. If QTH is not in the list of apps approved, click + and select the app in the file requester. Toggle the switch next to QTH to on if not already on.
• Remove the pairing from the mac and the radio: In MacOS system settings > Bluetooth press the ⓘ symbol next to the TH-D74 and click on "Forget this device" and confirm. In the TH-74 go to menu 931 (Configuration > Bluetooth > Connect) highlight the Mac i the list and press the Menu button and select "Clear" and press OK. It should now be gone from the list.
• Reboot the Mac
• Reopen Bluetooth settings in the Mac. 
• Set the TH-D74 discoverable with menu 934 (pairing mode).
• When the TH-D74 appears in the list of Nearby Devices hover over it and click on the Connect button that appears. 
• A 6-digit number appears on both the radio and the Mac - click to confirm this on the Mac first and press on the radio second. The radio screen says "Pairing is completed". 
• After pairing, the TH-D74 should now be in the list of "My Devices" in the Mac Bluetooth settings but it should be "Not connected. Do not connect to the radio in the Bluetooth menu, instead connect with QTH App.
• Open the connection settings in QTH app and check that the KISS connection you're setting up is set to use the TH-D74E or TH-D74A Bluetooth port and device is set to Generic and baud to 115200. (a)
• Put the radio in KISS mode with F-5 if needed.
• Click the connect button in QTH app. The radio screen should now show a status message showing that a connection was initiated, and the Bluetooth icon on the radio should light up. Packets should now appear as green bars in QTH app, and when transmitting the red light on the radio should light up.

> The only setting that is different is 1200 baud instead of 9600.

(a): The baud rate in this window is what the Mac uses to speak to the radio with Bluetooth and the TH-D74 is capable of up to 128000 baud over Bluetooth, so leave it at 115200. The baud rate that the radio uses to speak APRS on the air (typically 1200) is set in the radio menu 505 (APRS > Basic Settings > Data speed - then toggle in and out of KISS mode with F-5) - it's not set in QTH app.

73 de LA9XSA Gunnar

Manager LA1NVG

[Gunnar René Øie (gunnar)]

Since I recently upgraded to a new Mac, for most people this might be the only required steps:

• Go to the Mac system settings > Privacy & Security > Bluetooth. If QTH is not in the list of apps approved, click + and select the app in the file requester. Toggle the switch next to QTH to on if not already on.

• Reboot the Mac

If you can get it working without having to re-do the Bluetooth pairing, then that might be the solution for you, but I didn't get it working without re-pairing.

[Geoffrey Dann]

Reminds me of a recurring nuisance connecting my mac, or another friend’s mac (and maybe with a friend’s microsoft surface) to a rocketfish bluetooth audio device at our YMCA. Usually, I need to tell my mac to forget the rocketfish, turn off bluetooth, turn bluetooth back on, find the rocketfish, and connect. 

/geoff, N3CFX

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