Wired USB Remote for QLab

[cmonaghan76]

I'm curious...

I peronally developed a wired USB remote for QLab that does not
require MIDI to operate. I wanted something in my application to allow
me to quickly choose and fire cues - and I did not want to purchase
the MIDI option. The end result is a nice package with a USB cable
that gives me a unique set of operations...

There is a rotary encoder for rolling through and selecting cues on
screen, and start, pause, and stop buttons. The buttons generally
operate on the selected cue, but can also be set to operate on the cue
list - its really intuitive.

Not wanting to keep it all to myself, I'm curious whether there would
may be any interest in a non-MIDI wired remote? I could easily knock
several more of these out if there was a need.

Chris

[Chris Ashworth]

Sounds awesome Chris. Are there pictures of it anywhere?

Cheers,
Chris

[dan howarth]

yes of course, i'd enjoy seeing a picture or two --- sounds like a hijacked 10-key pad or something ?? 

are you using some sort of software driver interface ?? the 10-key pad example i saw on an old max-msp page .. 

the theater arts guy here at the university uses a homemade 4 button (go, stop, back, forward) (i think) 

box .... but he uses an F8 & MIDI if i recall ... 

[mic pool]

And a Contour Shuttle Pro is sometimes a useful wired USB Qlab remote for programming. Not the best buttons though.

Jog wheel assigned to Prev/Next

Shuttle Wheel assigned to Scroll

4 Big Buttons under the wheel for GO STOP and whatever 9 Buttons above the wheel for anything else you fancy

Control button allows assignment of any keystrokes or scroll.

All sits under the hand quite nicely.

--
Best Regards

Mic Pool
m...@micpool.com

Online video portfolio
http://www.micp.tv

[cmonaghan76]

It's all custom, the PCB, the code, the lighted buttons, etc...all
purpose built. I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or so -
it's at the office and I'm off until Tuesday.

[Chris Bakos]

I'm interested. 

[GuruRo]

On 6 apr, 22:36, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:
> Not wanting to keep it all to myself, I'm curious whether there would
> may be any interest in a non-MIDI wired remote? I could easily knock
> several more of these out if there was a need.
>
> Chris

I'm also interested
Roland

[cmonaghan76]

I was able to get a picture today...see it at:

http://bit.ly/IcSWFr

The selected cue scrolls while rotating the encoder knob.
Normally the remote acts on the cue list: playing, pausing, or
stopping the list.
If the ecoder is rotated to select a new/different cue, the remote
operates on the individual cue, and the resumes operation on the list.
Pressing stop, stops the list or selected cue, and then goes into a
special reset mode that if pressed again will reset the list to the
first cue.

Any comments, questions?

[Daniel Perelstein]

I know you said it doesn't use MIDI. What communications protocol do you use? Are keystrokes encoded as buttons on a keyboard? Or something else?
Thanks,
Dan

Daniel Perelstein                 

Full-service music and sound for the theater

Musical Direction | Sound Design | Composition | Multi-Instrumentalist
Conducting, Arranging & Orchestrations, Vocal Coaching, Accompanying
www . danielperelstein . com

--
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[cmonaghan76]

:) I can't give away all my secrets. I can tell you that it is not
using keystrokes on a keyboard - as this would require QLab to have
the foreground focus. It is also not a serial emulator. There is a
small helper app that gets loaded on the Mac to interpret the signals
and communicate with QLab. Qlab will respond whether in the foreground
or background, focus or not. That was the core reason for building
this - as I couldn't guarantee that QLab would always have focus.

On Apr 8, 7:21 pm, Daniel Perelstein <dperelst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know you said it doesn't use MIDI. What communications protocol do you
> use? Are keystrokes encoded as buttons on a keyboard? Or something else?
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> Daniel Perelstein
>
> Full-service music and sound for the theater
>
> Musical Direction | Sound Design | Composition | Multi-Instrumentalist
> Conducting, Arranging & Orchestrations, Vocal Coaching, Accompanying

> www . danielperelstein . com <http://www.danielperelstein.com/>

>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:16 PM, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:
> > I was able to get a picture today...see it at:
>
> >http://bit.ly/IcSWFr
>
> > The selected cue scrolls while rotating the encoder knob.
> > Normally the remote acts on the cue list: playing, pausing, or
> > stopping the list.
> > If the ecoder is rotated to select a new/different cue, the remote
> > operates on the individual cue, and the resumes operation on the list.
> > Pressing stop, stops the list or selected cue, and then goes into a
> > special reset mode that if pressed again will reset the list to the
> > first cue.
>
> > Any comments, questions?
>
> > --
> > Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
>

> > Follow Figure 53 on Twitter:http://twitter.com/Figure53- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[cmonaghan76]

I've also just added a pic of the internals:

http://bit.ly/Hqv2Kk

[Chris Ashworth]

Well if it ain't MIDI, and it ain't keystrokes, then it's either AppleScript or, if you're living dangerously, something like F‑Script. :-)

That's really slick. Nice work.

On Apr 8, 2012, at 7:38 PM, cmonaghan76 wrote:

> :) I can't give away all my secrets. I can tell you that it is not
> using keystrokes on a keyboard - as this would require QLab to have
> the foreground focus. It is also not a serial emulator. There is a
> small helper app that gets loaded on the Mac to interpret the signals

> and communicate with QLab. QLab will respond whether in the foreground

[dan howarth]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:38 PM, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:

and communicate with QLab. Qlab will respond whether in the foreground
or background, focus or not. That was the core reason for building
this - as I couldn't guarantee that QLab would always have focus.

that thing looks great chris -- nice job. thanks for sharing. i like the simple design and great work on the paint & buttons choices .. 

can the encoder still select new / different cues while qlab is not in the foreground ?? 

do the buttons change colors with state / status / activity ? 

does the helper app have (or plans to have) a visual feedback layer (like the volume controls bezel overlay) for actions ? that would be good .. 

and perhaps even the ability to reassign the encoder ? to a different parameter (like active cue volume) ..... etc etc etc

nice work thanks --- 

[Christopher Ashworth]

Bonus points for using the same font as QLab uses for the "GO" button. :-)

[cmonaghan76]

Ha! That was unintentional, for sure. That's funny. The model with the GO button was an earlier piece - the buttons were replaced with common play/pause/stop symbols.

[Chris Bakos]

 It's very cool. When do you think you might have one for sale?

[Andy Leviss]

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:16 PM, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:

> I was able to get a picture today...see it at:
>
> http://bit.ly/IcSWFr

Looks nice! That's the same enclosure we use for our MR-4 MIDI and
recently released MR-4U USB MIDI remotes :-)

Excited to see some friendly competition out there. FWIW, we opted to
stick with MIDI, and to do MIDI for the USB version as well, because
we figure most purchasers of a hardware remote would also already have
the MIDI license anyway, and so that there's no installation of
anything outside of QLab. With the USB version, it's just plug in,
capture your button presses, and go. And of course we still make the
standard MIDI version for redundant systems.

-A

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Leviss
ETCP Certified Entertainment Electrician #1251

DucksEchoSound.com
Home of the Perfect Pickle Mini Chain Hoist Controller
and the MR-6 MIDI Remote, 2011 Live Design Product of the Year

[Dave Rogge]

I have a similar device to this for sale on Etsy. Mine does use
keystrokes, and is certainly not as cool looking as Chris's. It
functions very well, though, and as a bonus, it has two USB cables so
you can hit go on two computers at one time with one hand. I've been
using it on dance shows for a year or so, and it's been pretty solid
for me.

Here's the link:
http://www.etsy.com/listing/91211102/qlab-usb-controller-and-redundant-backup

[Jeremy Lee]

Looks fantastic!

Jeremy Lee
- A thumb is a terrible speller. Please forgive my trespasses.

[Andy Dolph]

I'd be interested, but the the key question for me is cost...

Andy

[cmonaghan76]

Hi Dan,

 

yes, the encoder can still select new/different cues while qlab is not in the foreground.

yes, the buttons change state depending on the status activity

the encoder has an alternate function that I have not assigned yet - the encoder has a pushbutton function that can allow it to change state.

I had not thought about a visual feeback option in the helper app - I'll add it to the things to still consider

 

Chris

 

On Sunday, April 8, 2012 7:59:20 PM UTC-4, dan howarth wrote:

[cmonaghan76]

I really appreciate all the feedback and kind comments. I am currently working on a few more things with this and of course need to do some ramping up to be able to produce these - turnaround time on some of the components can be weeks. I also have not set pricing, but believe that it will be comparable to similar products. I'll be posting here as soon as I can open up for orders.

 

I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask:

 

1. How important is redundant USB outputs (for two computers)? It would increase the cost some, but I imagine that for some of you it is mission critical.

2. How important is it that a right-angle (or straight for that matter) long USB cable be incuded?

3 .How important is having a footwsitch jack on the box, or would the box be sufficient as is?

4. How would you envision using an alternate function for the encoder? The encoder can be pressed down, allowing it to change function. An earlier post suggested using it an a cue volume control. Any other functions you see useful?

 

Chris

[dan howarth]

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 3:02 PM, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:

 

1. How important is redundant USB outputs (for two computers)? It would increase the cost some, but I imagine that for some of you it is mission critical.

2. How important is it that a right-angle (or straight for that matter) long USB cable be incuded?

3 .How important is having a footwsitch jack on the box, or would the box be sufficient as is?

4. How would you envision using an alternate function for the encoder? The encoder can be pressed down, allowing it to change function. An earlier post suggested using it an a cue volume control. Any other functions you see useful?

1. not important. frankly i was impressed to see that idea on the above wired remote featured by dave rogge .. hadn't thought about it, makes sense, good idea .. but there's a couple of different ways to create this sort of redundant communication, and it can certainly be achieved without 2 native usb plugs on the remote ..... one of my first thoughts (dave, jump in?) about having two dedicated usb cables hanging off the remote box --- that means the computers have to be pretty close to each other, or i'd have to trust the use of usb extenders .... 

2. not important. i just went through my cable box -- i have more usb and firewire cables than i know what to do with. it's very nice to get a cable with a new device .. i think in the last few years it's happened maybe once or twice that the new device did not include a cable .. again, not a big deal .. especially for a dedicated product like a QLAB remote, ie the end-user knows what they are getting into, they'll have a usb cable. 

3. not important. a footswitch jack is a great idea, but again there are many other ways to provide footswitch communication to a QLAB system .. if this seems to be in-demand, perhaps it's for a future device ? 

4. this encoder as described reminds me of the griffin powermate (way back when) .. griffin had a system preferences pane (right?) that allowed user-customization of scrolling or push-button functions on a per-application basis .. ie scrolling or pushing the button does certain things in safari and completely different things in firefox .. it was this user-customization that (likely) helped the product survive a few years on the market .. so basically my answer is ---- invite the user to assign the knob however they'd like ?? if i was in rehearsal mode or even at a smaller gig, using the knob as a volume up/down and the push-button as an output-mute ... might make sense ... depends on the situation. 

basically if it says STOP or GO on it, chances are very unlikely that anyone would ever want to make that button do -anything- else besides stop or go .. eh ?? but if it's a generic data encoder, maybe it would be best to allow the user the choice / option of setting the encoder to do X or Y or Z ... or even Q .... 

[dan howarth]

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 6:01 PM, dan howarth <theater...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 3:02 PM, cmonaghan76 <chr...@monaghan.net> wrote:

 

2. How important is it that a right-angle (or straight for that matter) long USB cable be incuded?

2. not important. i just went through my cable box -- i have more usb and firewire cables than i know what to do with. it's very nice to get a cable with a new device .. i think in the last few years it's happened maybe once or twice that the new device did not include a cable .. again, not a big deal .. especially for a dedicated product like a QLAB remote, ie the end-user knows what they are getting into, they'll have a usb cable. 

i'd like to offer an amendment --- if the device receives power via the data cable, then the new product box includes a data cable. that's the rules.  

[Jeffrey Yue]

Hi all.

A strange phenomenon has occurred in one of my long-running Children's musical. All the music for the show comes from multi-track playback. Each songs with multiple stereo/mono stems are send to an Allen & Heath iLive T112 (8 analogue lines) via a RME Fireface 800 on a Macbook Pro (2.7 Ghz with 8 GB of Ram). 

Every morning (yes, it's a kids show – starts at 10am), when my operator turn on the system and runs the overture as a test. The audio will display stuttering and slowing down (it's like a turntable running at a slower speed) and also random loud crackles that sounds like digital noise. Once the system 'runs-in' for about 15 minutes, playback will be fine.

The overture song is actually linked to the opening number (so once overture finishes, immediately follow by opening number). I have 2 mono and 7 stereo stems in the overture running into opening number with 2 mono and 8 stereo stems. I've not experienced this during set up, rehearsals and we're into the 60th show this week (the show runs for 45 minutes), so everyday the problem surfaces immediately upon power up and then resolve after 15 minutes.

What we have done:

1. The show opened with a lower spec Mac-mini and the stuttering,slowing down and crackling happened during one of the show. Have to stop and reboot computer, problem persists.
2. The show files has been bundled and running on a dedicated drive separate from the root drive.
3. When we mix down all the stems into a single stereo output from Q-lab and send via onboard mini-jack output, no issues.
4. One way to recreate the problem, is to trigger all tracks and cue consecutively in quick succession (I.e. Keep pressing GO). Thinking it could be the interface, I've swapped the RME Fireface 800 to a Metric Halo 2882, I manage to recreate the problem using the same method.

Is this a case of audio buffer being overloaded because of running multiple stems over multiple outputs on the interface? Why does the problem on surface upon powering up and then disappears after 15mins (it's almost like the Macbook pro needs to warm up)?

Thanks for reading and hopefully someone has some insights into this.

Regards.

[Andy Leviss]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Jeffrey Yue <xpan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The show files has been bundled and running on a dedicated drive separate
> from the root drive.

Expand on this a bit...a separate internal drive? A separate
_partition_ on the same drive? An external drive? USB or Firewire?

(If it's an external drive on the same bus as the audio interface, I'd
wager that this is a big part of the problem. If not, we can keep
digging :-)

--Andy

[Paul Gotch]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 08:10:08AM -0400, Andy Leviss wrote:
> (If it's an external drive on the same bus as the audio interface, I'd
> wager that this is a big part of the problem. If not, we can keep
> digging :-)

Other things to check:

- Is spotlight disabled on the disk containing show files?
- If it is an external drive exactly what type of drive is it?

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dave Rogge]

On Apr 9, 9:01 pm, dan howarth <theater.howa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. not important. frankly i was impressed to see that idea on the above
> wired remote featured by dave rogge .. hadn't thought about it, makes
> sense, good idea .. but there's a couple of different ways to create this
> sort of redundant communication, and it can certainly be achieved without 2
> native usb plugs on the remote ..... one of my first thoughts (dave, jump
> in?) about having two dedicated usb cables hanging off the remote box ---
> that means the computers have to be pretty close to each other, or i'd have
> to trust the use of usb extenders ....

My box comes with 2 six foot USB cables. The first version that I
currently use in production has 2 three foot cables, and sometimes
it's a little difficult to find the right computer placement. The six
foot cables will make that a lot easier. My rig uses two Macbook
Pros, so placing the backup off to the side or behind the main
computer isn't a big deal. Frequently I put the main computer right
on the mixer, and the backup goes on top of a rack or shelf nearby. I
like this a lot, because if I need to, I can still hit go on the
computer, or use the controls there, especially during tech when we're
jumping around and redundancy isn't important.

- dave -

[Jeffrey Yue]

Hi all.
The external drive is only a recent addition. The system is displaying the
same before when the audio files are on the root drive.
The separate drive is mains powered Firewire 800 drive of 7200 rpm. Using
the separate drive, we managed to see faster load time for multi-stem
group cues and faster start-up loading. I've on previous occasions used
USB thumbdrive to see improvement in running video files with less jitter
on the video.

[Chris Ashworth]

Good morning Jeffrey,

Two things here jump out at me as worth noting:

1) The fact that the problem ceases after 15 minutes

2) The description of it being "like a turntable running at a slower speed".

If the machine is overloading, it won't cause the audio to slow down in the way you've described. An overloaded machine would simply drop audio entirely, not slow it down. That makes me think something "downstream" of QLab may be a factor.

For the problem to resolve after 15 minutes also seems, to me, to point to something other than simply having an overloaded machine. If it is trying to do too much, that won't change after 15 minutes of trying...

I'd be curious to see your console logs and a copy of your workspace. You can send both to sup...@figure53.com.

You can get the console logs as follows:

• Launch /Applications/Utilities/Console.app
• Click "All Messages"
• Export this as a file and attach a copy to your email.

Best,
Chris

[Andy Leviss]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Chris Ashworth <ch...@figure53.com> wrote:
> 1) The fact that the problem ceases after 15 minutes
>
> 2) The description of it being "like a turntable running at a slower speed".

I skimmed past that part...how are you connecting your interfaces to
your console? The speed and clicks make it sound like clocking issues,
if you're connected digitally. Maybe something is freewheeling at
first, and eventually getting in sync?

--A

[Jeffrey Yue]

Hi Andy.
All 8 channels of outputs from the RME Fireface 800 is analogue
connections. I did not use any of the S/PDIF or ADAT outputs.

[Mr. Matthew Troy Parker]

Hi All

Here is my 2 cents.  I have been using an X-keys XK-24 http://xkeys.com/xkeys.php for running shows and x-keys Professional for programing.  They have versions with jog wheels.  I run ControllerMate to map the keys.  Applescripts can be run from ControllerMate so when I create a new qlab file all my scripts can be used immediately, without having to copy and paste them into a cue list and eating up triggers. You can also build logic into the keys, I have keys that toggle stage so one key opened all groups push the same button again and it closes all groups.  One key increases the cues master fader 2.5 db, and hold the mod and the same vol key and get a 5 db increase.  They have 1x1 (normal size) keys, 1X2 (i.e. the enter key), 2x2 keys, and spacers. The 2x2 key is great for a big "Go" button it sits on 4 button stems, so less its likely to accidentally trigger the button and redundancy if one contact ever failed.  The XK-24 fits nicely in landscape under the EQ knob on a M7CL.

I have the x-key go button firing a MSC Go over ipMIDI to trigger my back-up, so if we ever need to switch to the backup: the board -op hits a user button on the mixer to advance snapshots which switches the cascade inputs (big tip here use cascade inputs if your mixer has them to keep channels free) to the backup, and then toggle the kvm switch to the back up.  At this point they have to trigger using the space bar (assuming qlab crashed on the main machine), I have a usb switcher but I haven't had time to install and test yet.  ControllerMate can be flaky mapping keys if a keyboard is hot plugged with a program it maps to is running, this is were using MIDI triggers out shines my setup.  Other than that I have been using this set up for 2 year without issue.

--

Matthew Parker       mailto:Matt_...@Asolo.org

Sound Designer

Asolo Repertory Theatre        http://www.asolo.org/

On Apr 6, 2012, at 7:38 PM, mic pool wrote:

And a Contour Shuttle Pro is sometimes a useful  wired USB Qlab remote for programming. Not the best buttons though.

Jog wheel assigned to Prev/Next

Shuttle Wheel assigned to Scroll

4 Big Buttons under the wheel for GO STOP and whatever 9 Buttons above the wheel for anything else you fancy

Control button allows assignment of any keystrokes or scroll.

All sits under the hand quite nicely.


--
Best Regards

Mic Pool
m...@micpool.com

Online video portfolio
http://www.micp.tv

[cmonaghan76]

Based on responses I have received, I am going to move forward with a small production run of these - I'm probably 4-6 weeks out on a deliverable. I have a short waiting list already :) If you seriously have any interest in this, please let me know so I can notify you when the first run is ready. Again, thanks for all the input - it may not be for everyone, but it works great for most applications and I'm sure it will streamline operations for others. Target price is $349 out the door (free priority shipping).

[Jeremy Lee]

I would be more interested in knowing that the plug is secure. Some sort of locking mechanism on the USB port of the device. That it includes a cable is not important. I have a box full of them myself...

Jeremy Lee
- A thumb is a terrible speller. Please forgive my trespasses.

[cmonaghan76]

As promised ... the Q-Widget USB remote for QLab is now available for sale at http://widgeteering.com. We do expect to run out of stock today as the response has been very positive. We do believe that we can fill any backorders very quickly. I personally apreciate everyone's input here - it helped to make the product more than it could have been on its own.