[QLab] new system configuration advice

[Colt Straub]

Hello everyone, 

  I'm a keyboard player at 2 different shows in Branson, MO.  I currently run production tracks and videos onstage for one of my shows from q lab off of a mac pro laptop . I'm working at getting my other show to move towards this software. However with the other show, I know that they are going to want a redundancy system set up.  I'm new to redundancy systems but I was considering running  completely separate mac computers to run the program simultaneously off of midi cues split into each computer from my keyboard (Roland Phantom X8).  Then I was going to have each computer run out of its own audio i/o with outputs running into some kind of switcher.  I would also need something for potentially switching up to 3 video outputs and midi signals.  

   I have several questions, and forgive me if I sound very unknowledgeable. I'm just beginning to research all this,and figured that this would be the best place to start.   First of all, is this the best way to go about the setup?  Second, what are some specific hardware units that would work well for switching audio, midi and video from my primary to my secondary computers? Third, would it be necessary to go with mac towers to get multiple video outputs and enough processing power to run everything smoothly, or would something slightly cheaper such as 2 mac minis work in this application?  Finally, is it good to run the computers completely separate, or is it better to have the computers on some kind of third party splitter that can control both computers off of the same mouse and keyboard (bouncing back and forth between computers on one monitor)? I'm trying to keep the budget for the whole project  within reason (5-8k)  I would really appreciate whatever advice anyone can offer.   

Thanks you so much and God bless.

[gtwi...@yahoo.com]

Hey Colt, I am based out of Branson as well, I am out on a gig @ the moment, but will be back soon and may be able to help, if you like.
George
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Colt Straub <colts...@hotmail.com>
Sender: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:35:20
To: <ql...@lists.figure53.com>
Reply-To: "Discussion and support for QLab users." <ql...@lists.figure53.com>
Subject: [QLab] new system configuration advice

________________________________________________________
WHEN REPLYING, PLEASE QUOTE ONLY WHAT YOU NEED. Thanks!
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.figure53.com/listinfo.cgi/qlab-figure53.com

________________________________________________________
WHEN REPLYING, PLEASE QUOTE ONLY WHAT YOU NEED. Thanks!
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://lists.figure53.com/listinfo.cgi/qlab-figure53.com

[*]

I'll leave your video questions to someone else.

I run a redundant Qlab rig for a ballet company & have been doing so for
more than 2 years.

(2) Macs controlled via an external MIDI trigger & they stay in near
perfect sync even after 45 minutes of running without a pause. Close
enough to where I don't think the average person would even notice.

For shorter (5 minute / 10 minute) cues with a pause in between, no
problem with drift.

I bought identical Mac Books with identical RAM upgrade to minimize the
chance for their being timing difference when the system switches over
(which it has from time to time).

Depending on how many channels of audio you will be running, you might be
able to switch midi via a spare channel on your audio switcher.

There are two audio switching devices that seem to be used by the majority.

Radial SW8
Whirlwind AB8

So if you need 6 channels of audio & a midi channel, you can just build
adapters for the midi part.

My system has an autoswitching function based on a pilot tone being
generated by the A Qlab rig. It's a 30 sec loop at the top of the cue
list. When it starts the Radial SW8 switches to A mode & stays there. If
there is a problem where audio is interrupted on the A rig, the SW8
switches to the B rig automatically. The SW8 can also be manually switched
to B. If the power is lost on the SW8, it defaults to B. If you need more
than 8 channels, you can daisy chain SW8's until you get to your track
count.

A concern with switching MIDI is that if you switch while a note / message
is being sent, it will possibly get stuck. I believe Radial even mentions
switching midi in their documentation. Just be aware that the Radial has a
transformered output & so the MIDI channel would need to come out one of
the DB25 outputs.

Feel free to write me off list. I've been working on both an autoswitch &
manually switched audio switcher due to some of my experiences with the
existing audio switchers. Depending on what you need, maybe I can make it.

Re: Single mouse, keyboard Monitor

I would steer you away from the second approach you mentioned. Ideally you
don't want any single failure to take out both systems & relying on a
single anything is dangerous.

The only thing my two systems have in common is the MIDI trigger device. I
have spare power supplies for everything. I can unplug one of the
computers while in the middle of a cue & if everything is working right,
no one but me even notices.

If I sabotage Qlab A, the B rig kicks in. If I sabotage the B rig, there
is no evidence sonically.

I'm a huge fan of laptops for the reason that they can run on their own
battery. If you use the right FW or USB based I/O that runs on buss power,
it will stay on too if someone kicks the power cord out. Then it's just a
matter of plugging it back in but the audio kept right on going.

There are reasons NOT to go redundant & reasons not to auto switch but I
think they are all worth over coming if possible. Just knowing that you
have a backup is worth a good nights sleep. I run a 3rd mac in case both
of the main systems fail. It's triggered via the same midi but the
channels are muted on the console. At least I know that I won't have to
tell the producer, "start the refund process:("

I'm sure there are video switchers that can be controlled externally.
Maybe via a contact closure.

Best Regards,

*

On Tue, September 28, 2010 6:35 pm, Colt Straub wrote:
> I have several questions, and forgive me if I sound very
> unknowledgeable. I'm just beginning to research all this,and figured
> that this would be the best place to start. First of all, is this the
> best way to go about the setup? Second, what are some specific
> hardware units that would work well for switching audio, midi and video
> from my primary to my secondary computers? Third, would it be necessary
> to go with mac towers to get multiple video outputs and enough
> processing power to run everything smoothly, or would something
> slightly cheaper such as 2 mac minis work in this application?

________________________________________________________

[gtwi...@yahoo.com]

How many channels are you outputting?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Colt Straub <colts...@hotmail.com>
Sender: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:35:20
To: <ql...@lists.figure53.com>
Reply-To: "Discussion and support for QLab users." <ql...@lists.figure53.com>
Subject: [QLab] new system configuration advice

[sam kusnetz]

with all this talk of redundancy and splitting MIDI, i feel a little sheepish to ask this question:

am i the only person on this list who has never, but *never* had a crash during showtime?

i've been using qlab continuously since version 0.9.5 on dozens and dozens of shows totaling thousands of performances in a wide variety of configurations and environments, and i have never had a show-stopping crash.

am i in credibly lucky? is it stupid of me to not run a redundant setup?

cheerio
sam

[Taylor John]

Yes and Yes,

For the record. I too have run over 1500 shows with the same result. All with a redundant running. QLAB is stable but can you say the same for the hardware on your system. (Audio Interface, Mac Computer, etc)

Regards

John

On 29/09/2010, at 5:01 PM, sam kusnetz wrote:

> am i in credibly lucky? is it stupid of me to not run a redundant setup?

________________________________________________________

[Steven Devino]

There is no budget in community theatre for redundant system so we never have it. So if the system goes down I restart and the show keeps going.

This has happened 2x in 4 years. One of those was operator error.

Mobile
Steven Devino
+1 603 505 8092
+1 603 867 6843

[Drew Dalzell]

I've had Qlab running hundreds of shows at this point. I have not had a lot of crashes, but I have certainly had a few dozen that have happened during shows and during very intense tech rehearsals. Typically it is when I'm running video, but I've also had it happen on complex audio shows. I'm fairly certain I have had most major software packages crash on me or do something not intended during a show. I know LCS, SFX, and Qlab have all done it to me at some point.

Admittedly I'm usually pushing the machine in some what when it happens, but still, it happens.

Drew