MOTU 828 MK3 Hybrid

[ra byn (robin)]

Checking in to see if anyone is successfully using the MOTU 828 MK3 Hybrid
with Qlab on the list.

A buddy just replaced a dead Echo 12 on his Qlab rig with one & so far so
good.

For the cost & if it works, it's going to be hard to beat. Onboard DSP, 16
adat i/o, 10 analog i/o, midi, FW & USB, etc...potentially a 26 output
Qlab box.

Thanks in advance,

ra byn (robin)

[Drew Dalzell]

I have 4 of the original 828Mk3 units, and one of the Hyrbid units with FW800 ports. All of them work great.

I have an 828Mk3 Hybrid running with Qlab on a Mac Mini at the San Diego Zoo, it runs 7 days a week and was installed back in June. There have been no interface related problems.

Machine wise they have been paired with machines running Lion and Snow Leopard. Macbook, Macbook Pro, White Mac Mini, Aluminum Mac Mini, and the latest Core i5 Mac Minis that don't have the optical drive.

Drew

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[Jeremy Lee]

Be aware of a few things though. They sometimes don't report their midi ports properly to QLab on boot, so they need to be repatched. When you see the front panel LCD start flashing or blinking or showing other strange behavior, replace them. MOTU tech support has gone WAY downhill over the last 10 years. Good luck getting in touch with them if you have any problems.

I'd say they're more of a "buy once, use it for a few years" interface. Buy an RME or Metric Halo if you want to buy once and use for a decade or more.

Jeremy Lee
- A thumb is a terrible speller. Please forgive my trespasses.

[Andy Leviss]

On Saturday, February 11, 2012, Jeremy Lee <jerem...@jjlee.com> wrote:
> Be aware of a few things though. They sometimes don't report their midi ports properly to QLab on boot, so they need to be repatched. When you see the front panel LCD start flashing or blinking or showing other strange behavior, replace them. MOTU tech support has gone WAY downhill over the last 10 years. Good luck getting in touch with them if you have any problems.

Heartily seconded. I've seen multiple units in our rental inventory develop the flashing LCD of death. As we've needed more, we've been replacing with RME FireFaces. More expensive, but well worth it in reliability and sound quality. And anybody who specs a MOTU is generally happy to sub an RME; the same cant be said in reverse.

Oh, and our repairs manager groans outwardly anytime a MOTU repair comes up, because it means ages just trying to get them on the phone. And I'd rather not relive the time they told me they were honoring my warranty as a FAVOR, after taking 4 weeks to return my messages, during which time the warranty had expired.

-Andy

[Paul Peterson]

We had a Hybrid running QLab 2 on a Mini this last summer. We had more problems with the card disappearing, dropping clock and even generating random noises. The machine was up to date with drivers and OS, but we couldn't seem to pin-point the problems. I was really disappointed with the Hybrid, as we have many 828's v1 through 3 that continue work flawlessly. We've relegated the Hybrid to doorstop status, I wouldn't trust it in show conditions.

-paul peterson

On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:12 PM, ra byn (robin) wrote:

[Mark Valenzuela]

On a somewhat related note, I've got one of the original Ultralites, and it has been 100% rock solid. I've been wondering about the reliability of the current Ultralite offering - the mk3 hybrid. Anyone have any experiences with those that they care to share?

Thanks,

Mark

--

[Taylor John]

4 units rock solid for years (5 shows, midi and 8 ch audio per week)

Sent from my iPhone

[Peter Landers]

I bought one for my 2011 MacBook Air and am very happy with it, as I am with my 828mk3 (non-hybrid) and my 6-year-old original Ultralite. The latter did, however, give me an opportunity to have a better experience with MOTU support than everyone else seems to describe. My Ultralite died in its first week (back in 2007 when I got it). Since I had a show to do with it the following weekend and no budget for a backup, I contacted MOTU per my dealer's instructions; I hadn't heard of any service problems with them at that point. I got through quickly, and when I described my situation they shipped me a replacement device immediately; I just had to send the dead one back in the shipping carton they provided. Never had a single problem with the replacement unit. It's now been handed down to my sister who's using it for freelance voice work.

So all my MOTU experiences have been very positive indeed. Hopefully I'm not jinxing it.

Pt

[Charlie Richmond]

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:51, Peter Landers <peterl...@mac.com> wrote:

So all my MOTU experiences have been very positive indeed. Hopefully I'm not jinxing it.

It's extremely interesting how much people's MOTU experience has varied over the years.  Yes, many have had support problems but many have had excellent support and I haven't yet really figured out the key to the situation.  Our own sample experience is that they have always provided us with excellent support and we have been MOTU dealers for over 20 years. I suspect that it relates to having an established relationship with them to a certain extent since they get so many requests for support and repair for random used MOTU items which can always be found in large quantity on Craigslist and elsewhere on the web.  If the equipment is under warranty, their response is exceptional and I have had them ship replacement items before even receiving the defective unit back.

At any rate, their support does seem to be improving overall.

C-)

[Jeremy Lee]

You were lucky.  Often the "TechNotes" go unread for up to 3 months, and then will just be deleted.  Or answered with something simple like "Reformat your drive, reinstall everything, and let us know if it helps" like we were running Windows or something.

And you can get a busy signal or be on hold for hours and hours before getting cut off or getting through to someone that doesn't know much.

You got REALLY lucky!  I haven't had good luck with MOTU tech support since about 2001 or 2002.

On Feb 12, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Peter Landers wrote:

So all my MOTU experiences have been very positive indeed. Hopefully I'm not jinxing it.

-- 

Jeremy Lee

    Sound Designer, NYC - USA 829

        http://www.jjlee.com

[ra byn (robin)]

Jeremy,

Is the issue you describe (flashing / blinking LCD) specific to the 828
MK3 hybrid or to the MK3 FW units or just any recent MOTU units in
general?

Is there any relation between the LCD issue & the midi issue or is the
midi repatch issue true of MOTU units in general these days or just the
828 MK3? Is it an intermittent thing or does it happen under certain
conditions?

I ask because I'd like to be able to tell my buddy with the 828 MK3 hybrid
on his QLab rig, "beware of such & such & if this happens, do this...

Also, "if you don't have these issues, you're probably fine..."

Thanks,

ra byn

[Jeremy Lee]

I don't know if the problems were with the Mk3 or the hybrid. These were rental units. They were units that had been out on other shows, and worked fine in the shop. The blinking LCD thing precedes a total failure of the unit.

The MIDI issue is likely a driver issue on MOTU's end. But it is also intermittent.

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[mennis]

I've not used the MK3 but I've been using the 828 MK2 for years in live theater and the original 828 before that. I think the display went out on the MK2 early in it's life and I sent it in for repair.  The cost was trivial and the timing was good.  That was at least 3 years ago.

I've done one show with the MK2 using qlab and logic running on a mac mini(Mid 2011) and Lion and 4GB.  There were 350 or so sound cues over 6 channels and Logic was used to process audio input from two live mics, one at a time.  I didn't know how how to control logic from qlab (I think I understand this now) so I just tabbed between the two applications to mute/un-mute the inputs and manipulate the signal processing.  The setup worked flawlessly over a two week run.   

I also use  blacktree's nocturne when in a booth where the screen brightness is an issue. http://code.google.com/p/blacktree-nocturne/ .

Ian

[Jeremy Lee]

The last MOTU hardware unit I owned was an original 828.  A couple years after I bought it, it stopped working, and I got it replaced.  It was fast, and the cost was indeed trivial.  The next time it broke (maybe 2 more years) I sent it in again.  They had it for maybe 9 months before they sent it back to me.  It had been discontinued, and they didn't have any parts.  I was not overly sad when the 828 was stolen out of the back of a Stage Manager's car...

On the other hand, I've had the RME FireFace 400 for about 5 years, with absolutely no problems.  Solid build, great drivers, super clean sound.  And the online support is really quite good.  And it's been knocked around a LOT in suitcases and backpacks.

In these things, you get what you pay for.

On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:15 AM, mennis wrote:

I've not used the MK3 but I've been using the 828 MK2 for years in live theater and the original 828 before that. I think the display went out on the MK2 early in it's life and I sent it in for repair.  The cost was trivial and the timing was good.  That was at least 3 years ago.

[Drew Dalzell]

Well, if we're looking for anecdata then I've got 1 828 Mk1, it ran for 6 years, went in for repair, came back in a week, and is still running today.  I have 4 828 Mk2 units that are at least 5 years old, that have been out on more rentals than I can count, including running Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Studios for 4 seasons (12 hours straight per night, in an outdoor tech room, for 5 weeks) and none of them have had a problem.  I have two more Mk2 units that are the same age that have each been in for repair once, they came back in a week and have had no problems.

I have three non-hyrbrid 828Mk3 units.  I believe they are about 2 years old.  They've run Halloween Horror Nights or 2 seasons, no problems.  I have one 828Mk3 Hybrid, it ran Halloween Horror Nights last season, no problems.

I have two Ultra Lites, they are at least 4 years old.  No problems.

I have two original 896 interfaces. One has had no problems, the other has been in for repair once, again, returned to me within two weeks. They are both at least 6 years old, probably older.

There is also one Traveller, that's probably around 5 years old. It has one odd issue, you get noise transmitted through the interface from the SPDIF interface.  If they are muted in Cuemix then it works with no problems. It hasn't been a big enough of a problem for me to justify sending it in for repair.

I have two 828Mk3 interfaces installed in FL.  One of them is on 24 hours a day, and runs at least 3 shows a day, 7 days a week, it's been two years, and no problems, the other one runs 3-7 shows a day, 7 days a week, no problems.

I wish a lot of the rest of my gear was this reliable.  I had Echo Gina interfaces fail after a few years, Laylas fail after a few years. M-Audio seems to fail before it even gets out of the box. Most of my audio interfaces have lasted far longer than the computers I've connected them to.

Drew

[Andy Leviss]

On Thursday, February 16, 2012, Drew Dalzell <drew.d...@drewdalzell.com> recounted lot of 828s with long, happy life spans.

I am incredibly jealous of your luck, Drew. I recently swapped out two on the tour of The Color Purple, and just yesterday was walking Book of Mormon through swapping out one unit that died, when they informed me that the second one was starting the aforementioned "flash of death", too. On the recent off-broadway run of Once, out of four units, two had to be replaced during the run (Broadway is now running via MADI from a pair of FireFaces 800s). Likewise one unit on the recent FL production of "Soul Doctor".

I think the first one Jeremy mentioned, that was swapped in the shop, was one of ours, as well, if not, that's another. I know there were at least 3-5 others in the last 6-8 months, but I'd have to go through our inventory system's history to get a more precise count, and a breakdown of m2 vs mk3 vs mk3 hybrid. But I know it's enough to make me uncomfortable recommending them to anybody.

So, yeah, that's my two cents :-/

-Andy, who, outside of Duck's Echo, spends his days doing computer support for one of the "big three" Broadway rental houses*

*-Needless to say, these opinions are solely mine, and not representative of those of my employer

[ra byn (robin)]

Re: MOTU

For what it's worth, there is a local theater with (2) 828 originals I
sold them a while back (one I purchased from Sam K) that are still going
strong using SFX 5.6 & Win 7. They have never been serviced. Amazing. Both
are due for a filter cap upgrade though...

But I've already heard enough to know I'm not investing in any MOTU gear.
I already felt this way but it's just more solid now. Maybe the MOTU units
will work fine in a permanent or semi permanent situation but just can
deal with road use.

Re: RME

My 5+ year old FF800 that has barely seen any use has been replaced by
Synthax (2) times under warranty. The first time, a board stopped working.
They replaced that unit with a refurb to speed up the return process. The
replacement unit had an ROHS issue & the FW800 port just broke off the
circuit board the first time I went to plug something into it. $100+ in
shipping & insurance later, I've got an out of warranty but currently
working FF800.

Re: MH

I own (3) MH 2882s. I've had to send one of my units off for warranty
repair due to an issue. I had to eat shipping & insurance. About $50. I've
also lost a PSU recently even though the units are rather young. About
$100 to replace. In spite of all that, the 2882 is a fantastic product,
has fantastic function, fantastic sound quality but I wouldn't consider
handing it to someone who doesn't have the time to learn the Mio console
well unless I could set it up for them & then save a boot state. With
infinite routing comes infinite confusion. It's imperative that you
understand the Mio console to use this box or any other MH box!

Re: Presonus

I own (5) Presonus Fireboxes that are beginning to show their age but I've
never a single problem with any of them. (6) balanced outputs, midi I/O,
SPDIF I/O. A bit noisy.

I work with a theater group that uses (1) Presonus Firestudio Project for
their Qlab rig. 3+ years now of seasonal use. They've never had an issue I
am aware of.

Re: Maudio

I have (2) Maudio Fasttrack Pros that I inherited & have tested with Qlab.
They work fine but I don't use them on shows. Being USB based, they worked
on a system when I couldn't get any firewire based devices to work. I
wouldn't recommend them or bad mouth them. I just have them & they work.
Fine for an upgrade to the headphone jack output & includes midi i/o.

Re: conclusion

If I could take my favorite I/O to a gig I was on, the MH 2882 would win
every time but I'd take a backup too.

If I had to provide an I/O for someone else's Qlab rig & they didn't need
more than 6 outputs, I'd have complete faith in the firebox due to it's
function, simplicity, buss powered-ness & driver-less-ness. But even then
I'd provide a spare.

No device is perfect.

This whole discussion steers my interest back to the Presonus Audiobox
1818VSL for an affordable option for future Qlab users I come across who
can't afford MH & RME but need 8 or more outputs.

Thanks to all who have participated in this thread!

ra byn

[Andy Dolph]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:02 AM, ra byn (robin) <ra...@rabyn.com> wrote:

No device is perfect.

This whole discussion steers my interest back to the Presonus Audiobox
1818VSL for an affordable option for future Qlab users I come across who
can't afford MH & RME but need 8 or more outputs.

And I've had problems with both of my Presonus interfaces (a firebox and something newer I can't think of the model of right now) not a big deal to get them to fixt them, but still makes me turn away from Presonus in general, though maybe it shouldn't....

In fact I'm about to buy a motu Ultralight Hybrid for the HS Auditorium I TD, but I'm making a point of buying from Sweetwater, where they give me a 2 year warranty and their own tech support if I have trouble with MOTUs.  I figure that it gives me an extra layer of insurance if I have a problem, even if I might get the unit for a few dolars less someplace else.

Just another way to approach it...

I'll also say that while theoretically I'd like to say that uptime is just as important at the High School as it is on a Bway production - it's just not true.  At least not when it comes to the powers that be being willing to spend money on more reliable solutions - so I think we all do the same thing - get the most reliable system we can figure out for the dollars we have available....

Andy 

[Mark Valenzuela]

How's the MOTU Traveler? Obviously, it will suffer from the same questionable customer support, but does it suffer from the same reliability problems as the 828? Seems similar in terms of functionality, and can be used as a stand alone AD-DA.

Mark

[John Leonard]

Was recommended the Traveler for a QLab system and went through three in as many months, each with different problem. Finally ditched it for a used Metric Halo 2882 and never looked back.

Regards,

John

[Mark Valenzuela]

Yikes.

This is starting to sound like a bad joke.......Ok here goes:

What do you call an audio interface that has multiple analog I/O, multiple digital I/O, reliable MIDI, sounds good, won't poop on your show, has good technical support, and doesn't require you to sell your first born? (And I'd price my first born at around 1k).

Presonus? M-Audio? MOTU? Focusrite?

I'm starting to get the feeling that the answer is nothing. Bummer.

[Brendan Aanes]

My $0.02:

I have used many Motu 828mk2 units in shows and installations and found it to be reliable. In one 24/7 installation, we found it needed to be power-cycled every week or so, or it would have some issues outputting audio (this was a few years back and I don't remember the issues). This was easily done at night via a remote-controlled powerstrip.

The 828mk2 screens also die after a few years. But this does not indicate the death of the unit.

I have had an Ultralite for about 5 years, never any issues with it. 

Have used several Travelers with S/PDIF issues, seems to be a regular problem.

Have heard many horror stories about the mk3 units, but it's all anecdotal.

Have used M-Audio Profires in an installation, they are ok so far, but are pickier about power-on order - sometimes the computer won't see them if they aren't powered on first. I am waiting for them to fail but they haven't.

Have used two Echo Audiofire 12s in an installation up since last summer and no trouble yet.

But this is all anecdotal. Really, if you need total reliability, you need to run a redundant system on as many levels as possible. Everything breaks eventually. Making sure it does so as gracefully as possible is the key.

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Mark Valenzuela <markval...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

What do you call an audio interface that has multiple analog I/O, multiple digital I/O, reliable MIDI, sounds good, won't poop on your show, has good technical support, and doesn't require you to sell your first born? (And I'd price my first born at around 1k).

Imaginary.

But beyond that, my personal vote for a midrange interface would go to the Focusrite interfaces then, or Echo Audio.  High End I reach for RME, though MH or Apogee isn't out of the question either.  Low end, I don't bother.

        Thomas Vecchione

[raymond soly]

well I'll jump in ..

I have 6 MOTU 896HD and they are rock solid, 4 are on the road and 2
at the home studio..........the first 3 date from over 6 years ago and
where bought new the others are used units and, I am buying 2 more
"used" from local gear stores for under $350........I also saw them on
ebay at around 300$........in the early days I did have to send one
unit back for a faulty output and another for a fried power supply
(happened on tour in europe)....., but they shipped me back new units
even though they where a few months old...so again perhaps service has
changed but once I got through customer service it was a
cinch........nowadays I just buy two at a time......main and
backup ......

Ray

[sam kusnetz]

> "ra byn (robin)" <ra...@rabyn.com> Feb 16 11:02PM -0600

>
> For what it's worth, there is a local theater with (2) 828 originals I
> sold them a while back (one I purchased from Sam K)

whoa, that box is still going strong? amazing. that was my very first audio interface, bought in the spring of 2003. unless you count the griffin imic i had in college. which i don't. anyway...

mark, have you looked into the focusrite saffire pro 40? it's slightly cheaper than the motu 828mk3 and hits all your requirements.

i myself am *very* interested in this box. i've never used it or heard it, but $500 for eight mic preamps, eight analogue line outs, adat in and out, and a software mixer that allows rme-style post-qlab mixing... if it works as advertised, i think it could claim the best-box-cheaper-than-rme spot easily.

cheerio
sam
--
sam kusnetz, sound & projection design | USA-829
503.201.2591
s...@notquite.net

[Mark Valenzuela]

> mark, have you looked into the focusrite saffire pro 40? it's slightly cheaper than the motu 828mk3 and hits all your requirements.

I definitely have. it's the one that has caught my eye the most, in fact. It seems that people have had very mixed experiences with Focurite - although I guess that can be said for all of these pieces of gear we've been talking about. It's amazing for the price - almost too good to be true. I actually be more likely to trust it if it was a couple hundred more. All of that functionality for $500 makes me more wary of the quality and reliability.

Mark

[sam kusnetz]

i wrote:

> > mark, have you looked into the focusrite saffire pro 40? it's slightly cheaper than the motu 828mk3 and hits all your requirements.

mark replied:

> I definitely have. it's the one that has caught my eye the most, in fact. It seems that people have had very mixed experiences with Focurite

i have heard that too, although from what i recall all complaints were regarding a specific model. i can't remember the model name at the moment, but what i gathered was that it was just that one box that was giving everyone trouble.

> almost too good to be true. I actually be more likely to trust it if it was a couple hundred more. All of that functionality for $500 makes me more wary of the quality and reliability.

yeah, i know what you mean. makes you want to know what they skimped on, right? but of course it's also possible that the price for this box is being offset by the shared research and development that was paid for by the higher prices of other focusrite products, you know?

[Who are you]

All right here are a few other concerns....

Setup:
Mac mini early 2012
Mountain lion
828 hybrid mk3 (v.1.0)
Qlab playing 24bit wav files
01v96 v.2 (opt 8 analog input card added)

When playing back audio, I came to notice very low volume jitter type glitches in the 8 analog output channels an thought something had went wrong in protools file encoding.

Everything was fine with the source fIles

I setup the 01v and 828 for adat transmission, prepared 2 input librairies for fast input A-B on the 01v channels.

Surprise, the glitches disapeared. signal was cleaner and channel separation was better.

Bad 828 D/A conversion ?

Oher test i should do when i get back there:
-Compare built in and opt card inputs on the 01v to eliminate 01v potential problems with its i/o
-Upgrade firmware on 828
-Test same setup with 16bit and other file formats

Josue