In/Out Points

[Thomas Vecchione]

So I am looking to use QLab for a video playout server for an online broadcast, but running into an issue of editing down video clips for playback within QLab is a bit more difficult than it should be, unless I missed something obvious?

There is not ability to set 'IN/OUT' points for a video or audio cue from the keyboard while auditioning?  Typically this would be handled by the Keyboard shortcut I and O, though sometimes you will also see J and K depending on the software, these I don't think are being used by any other defaults, would it be possible to add this as a feature request?  Makes setting up a broadcast on limited time very much easier.

Also just to make sure I am not missing anything, if memory serves in QLab 2 we had the ability to select a portion of the cue and set the start and end points from the selection?  I don't see a way to even do that in QLab3, or am I missing something obvious(Very possible?)

Finally I don't believe it is currently possible to do a basic video fade in or out without using a fade cue right now?  I am thinking similar to audio fade in an out you can draw control lines with here.  I am likely to have a volunteer running this, and the simpler I can make it the better, and at least that way they can see the information visually easily.

Thanks very much, and as always great software! 

            Thomas Vecchione

[Christopher Ashworth]

Hi Thomas,

You're correct that setting he start/end times from the selection didn't make the transition from v2. Some of the underlying implementation was pretty messy which is why it got dropped, and didn't find time to rebuild it. Might bring it back in v4.

I'm not familiar with setting "in/out" points. These are start/end times? If so, how are the times usually specified? I.e. What is the full work flow you're expecting?

(mobile)

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[Lucas Krech]

In a standard video editor like Adobe Premier you can scrub through (or tab through by frame, or play through) along a timeline. Once at the start or end point you want you hit I or O depending upon in or out point and the program sets it. In QLab you do this by dragging the sliders in the time and loop tab. My biggest issue with this is that it does not scrub through the video in a live preview. Unless I am missing something. 

Lucas Krech

Light & Video Artist

www.LucasKrech.com

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"Dancers live in light like fish live in water"

~Jean Rosenthal

[luckydave]

You can put these scripts into Script cues, with I and O as hotkey triggers, and you'll have the in/out behavior you're looking for:

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3"

tell front workspace

set thisCue to last item of (selected as list)

set inPoint to action elapsed of thisCue

set start time of thisCue to inPoint

end tell

end tell

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3"

tell front workspace

set thisCue to last item of (selected as list)

set outPoint to action elapsed of thisCue

set end time of thisCue to outPoint

end tell

end tell

Of course, this only works if you have selected the active cue you want to set in and out points for, but that seems pretty much a given. You could wrap it in a try block to be sure it doesn't cause problems if you trigger the script cues at the wrong time.

-- 
luckydave

[Thomas Vecchione]

Lucas hit this dead on.  It would be even better to be able to set in and out points in a window similar to the 'audition' window, however for right now I will give the script luckydave posted a spin.

I will also add that this comes in very useful, when for example your source is a 2 hour long recording, that you need 15 minutes or less from.  Right now it is a bit tedious to zoom in, find your point, and realize the start and end markers are off the edge of the screen so you have to zoom back out and lose your place to drag said markers back in, etc.

Not counting even more frustration when you forget for the millionth time you are in QLab and not a video editor and hit space bar to start the audition again to find your place and have to repeat step one:)  But that is more an issue I need to deal with, but being able to set In and Out points easily could be a great help to me, thanks.

           Thomas

[micpool]

On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 11:39:44 PM UTC, Thomas Vecchione wrote:

Lucas hit this dead on.  It would be even better to be able to set in and out points in a window similar to the 'audition' window,

You can! And you can scrub too.

The trick is to open the cue in QuickTime Player.

Scrub to the inpoint. 

Capture this time from QT Player and set your inpoint to this 

Scrub to the out

Capture and set

Close Quicktime player window

The scripts to do this are:

Hotkey K open selected cue  in QuickTime Player

set userApplication to application "QuickTime Player"

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3" to tell front workspace

set selectedCue to last item of (selected as list)

if q type of selectedCue is "Video" then

set fileTarget to file target of selectedCue

ignoring application responses

tell userApplication

open fileTarget

activate

end tell

end ignoring

end if

end tell

Hotkey I Capture inpoint time from QT Player

tell application "QuickTime Player"

set thecurrenttime to current time of the front document

end tell

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3" to tell front workspace

set thisCue to last item of (selected as list)

set inPoint to thecurrenttime

set start time of thisCue to inPoint

end tell

Hotkey O Capture outpoint time from QT Player

tell application "QuickTime Player"

set thecurrenttime to current time of the front document

end tell

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3" to tell front workspace

set thisCue to last item of (selected as list)

set outPoint to thecurrenttime

set end time of thisCue to outPoint

end tell

Hotkey J close editing in QT Player

set userApplication to application "QuickTime Player" 

tell application id "com.figure53.qlab.3" to tell front workspace

activate

ignoring application responses

tell userApplication

close front document

end tell

end ignoring

end tell

If you use a MIDI button box (or a programming MIDI keyboard or a Launchpad etc) then you don't have to keep reselecting the Qlab to run the scripts as the MIDI will trigger them in the background. When you finish and close the window using note 65 Qlab will re activate as the focus for keyboard input.

The attached workspace uses the white keys above Middle C(=60) on ch1 to trigger:

K 60

I 62

O 64

J 65

Mic

[Lucas Krech]

That's amazing. 

That said it woukd be great to have a lit if this stuff native to QLab. 

Lucas Krech

Light & Video Artist

www.LucasKrech.com

646.263.8439

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"Dancers live in light like fish live in water"

~Jean Rosenthal

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<External editor.cues>

[Lucas Krech]

That's what I get for typing on my phone en route to a meeting…stupid thumbs. 

I find it hard to remember what can and can't be done via scripting because it is not in front of me. This is why I draft in Vectorworks rather than AutoCAD. ACAD can do everything VW can you just have to write all the scripts which allow it to happen. VW does it out o the box. I hope the Figure53 team still keeps these items with scripting solutions on the to fix docket such that they can become part of the software itself. 

Lucas Krech

Light & Video Artist

www.LucasKrech.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Dancers live in light like fish live in water"

~Jean Rosenthal

On Feb 8, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Lucas Krech <des...@lucaskrech.com> wrote:

That's amazing. 

That said it woukd be great to have a lit if this stuff native to QLab. 

Lucas Krech

Light & Video Artist

www.LucasKrech.com

[Thomas Vecchione]

Heh thanks very much Mic!  I haven't ever really dug into applescript, to many languages for me to bother learning more, but this might just convince me I have to.  This is impressive what can be done with it.  I will be testing this later this week, and I would gladly spend money on a basic MIDI controller for this purpose, or if it can do it an XKeys possibly is another option I suppose.

And this is just improving things in the meantime.

I am noticing a few other things from my workflow that would be great to improve(Or some bugs that prevent me from relying on something), I suppose I should start a new thread about them.

             Thomas Vecchione

[Sam Kusnetz]

Lucas Krech wrote:
> That said it woukd be great to have a lit if this stuff native to QLab.

Is there a meaningful functional difference between "native to QLab" and
"triggered by hotkey script"?

-SK
--
Sam Kusnetz | Figure 53 Field Operative
s...@figure53.com

[Chris Ashworth]

On February 9, 2015 at 10:09:27 AM, Sam Kusnetz (s...@figure53.com) wrote:

Lucas Krech wrote:
> That said it woukd be great to have a lit if this stuff native to QLab.
Is there a meaningful functional difference between "native to QLab" and
"triggered by hotkey script"?

At the risk of piling work on our plates, I’d say there is, from a usability perspective.

That said, it’s a never-ending balancing act to decide what should be built in, for who, and for what goals.  The more QLab gets adopted by more people in more places, the harder that balancing act is.  Without making a judgement about this specific example, one thing I like about scripting is that it provides a healthy way to create features for some designers that, were they ALL built-in, could muddy the waters for other designers.

Another angle on this: we’re hoping to start shipping some pre-built template workspaces that have pre-built script cues for handy functions. This is another way to look at adding features that are more built-in, but still have the flexibility of scripts.

-C

[Lucas Krech]

Thanks for asking. 

The issue is one of accessibility. Not everyone who is a great visual or audio designer has a head for code. By making what is in other comparable related pieces of software a core functionality of your software you give better access to your program to more people. 

I love the extensibility of QLab. But relying on a user's skill as a software programmer, or Mic, for what is core functionality in other comparable programs can be difficult and confusing as an end user. 

Make sense?

Lucas Krech

Light & Video Artist

www.LucasKrech.com

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"Dancers live in light like fish live in water"

~Jean Rosenthal

[Mike Post]

> On Feb 9, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Sam Kusnetz <s...@figure53.com> wrote:

> Is there a meaningful functional difference between "native to QLab" and "triggered by hotkey script”?

Functional? I suppose there’s no real difference once you have the script written. Preferable? I guess that depends on how QLab handles scripts. I come from the world where if you wanted really efficient code you went back to machine language and the 6502 accumulator was your bestest friend. I get that those days are gone, but what’s the difference in clock cycles between a ‘native’ QLab feature and one that’s scripted? I know the scripts are ‘complied’ but is there any overhead to using a script cue? Even a little bit of additional overhead could pile up quickly in a looped sequence. During a buld session, I guess it wouldn’t really matter since you’re not usually looking for mission critical stuff.

I only recently started to play with scripting to help out my build phase for a show. I guess I would be reluctant to use a script in a show sequence mostly because I trust y’alls' code at F53 much more than my own :-)


Mike Post
mdp...@mac.com
http://mdpostdesign.com
(601) 307-8657

[Andy Dolph]

I think there is. For one thing, it's supported directly as a feature - which makes me more comfortable relying on it. It also becomes a documented part of the feature set which makes it easier to find.

Maybe some sort of supported library of applescripts that could be installed from a repository within qlab would be a compromise....

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2015, at 10:09 AM, Sam Kusnetz <s...@figure53.com> wrote:
>
>
>

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Chris Ashworth <ch...@figure53.com> wrote:

At the risk of piling work on our plates, I’d say there is, from a usability perspective.

That said, it’s a never-ending balancing act to decide what should be built in, for who, and for what goals.  The more QLab gets adopted by more people in more places, the harder that balancing act is.  Without making a judgement about this specific example, one thing I like about scripting is that it provides a healthy way to create features for some designers that, were they ALL built-in, could muddy the waters for other designers.

Another angle on this: we’re hoping to start shipping some pre-built template workspaces that have pre-built script cues for handy functions. This is another way to look at adding features that are more built-in, but still have the flexibility of scripts.

I think you hit on it here honestly.  There are some programs that the UI is little more than 'script' but that script was provided so that others didn't need to write those scripts, and could trust it more than their own (Along with being supported by the company obviously).  Of course many users of these programs don't even realize this.

Providing Template Workspaces I think could go a long way towards helping this, I am still digging into QLab3's functionality in this regards obviously but after the discussions last night and the scripts provided, I immediately started looking at templates for my volunteers so that all they have to do is drop in the video cues and the scripts were already provided.

All this being said, yes there is a point to incorporating this eventually.  For example I have noticed in some programs Quicktime handles certain video formats differently in certain circumstances that mean problems for me, rather than the programs supposedly built on Apple's libs for this which you would think would act the same but really don't.  So having functionality like I described built in to QLab in such a circumstance could make a difference yes so that I can feel more comfortable with the rendered output of the audition window vs an external program which might act slightly different, but in a significant enough way.

But as you mentioned, the question becomes how much does QLab want to aim for these workflows.  QLab made it's name aiming at theater, and my use for it in this case is decidedly not theater, and while it may make financial sense, or may not, there can always be other reasons that come into play when dealing with people vs a corporation.  So if you decided not to go that route, I can completely understand personally.

      Thomas Vecchione

[Thomas Vecchione]

Just wanted to report back that the scripts that micpool posted work wonders for this.  Still not quite a perfect solution, but a huge step up in terms of functionality when setting times on video cues.  Thanks very much!

     Thomas Vecchione