[QLab] Midi control of rme totalmix

[Paul Kavicky]

Had a friend asking about using Qlab midi commands to switch totalmix scenes in order to automate mic mutes in his system. (he's a magician traveling with a tiny playback setup to tie into pa systems at various venues).

This seems totally possible via the iac midi. Any tips? I'm trying to point him in the right direction remotely, I won't be able to help setup or test this. It just seems totally doable. I used to have a fireface800, but switched to metric halo and so I no longer have totalmix on any if my systems to experiment. Any info most welcome. I'll pass it on to him ASAP. Thanks.

Cheers,

Paul Kavicky
www.paperstreetaudio.com

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[Paul Gotch]

On Tue, Aug 02, 2011 at 06:10:59PM -0500, Paul Kavicky wrote:
> This seems totally possible via the iac midi. Any tips?

There was a extended discussion about MIDI controlling various
interfaces on the list a few weeks ago the main points are:

- Most things including the RME can't be controlled directly via IAC.
They require something physically plugged into the unit.

- Most things including the RME can't be fully controlled via MIDI they
tend to speak Mackie Control Protocol.

What would be needed is a separate MIDI interface on the Mac and some
way of patching a virtual midi port into a physical midi port. I don't
know of software to do this.

You could then do 'simple midi' control of the RME however if you
wanted full control then you'd need software which could act as a
'virtual Mackie Control' again i don't know of such software.

Basically if you want to be able to do such control entirely in
software you need to buy Metric Halo interfaces.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ted Pallas]

Can't you route midi by opening Ableton (for example), and routing in and out as desired?

Ted Pallas
Live Media Design
Sandwich Construction Consultant
cell - 516 286 9661

Pardon the typos, sent from my Casio SK-1

[Jeremy Lee]

Can't you just run a MIDI cable out of the RME and back into it? I've tried that before, just as a test, and could control the TotalMix that way.

Jeremy Lee
- A thumb is a terrible speller. Please forgive my trespasses.

[Paul Gotch]

On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 07:22:07AM -0700, Jeremy Lee wrote:
> Can't you just run a MIDI cable out of the RME and back into it? I've
> tried that before, just as a test, and could control the TotalMix
> that way.

Simple MIDI control will work that way but if you want to do full
Mackie HUI then it won't work as you need bidirectional information
transfer.

[Andy Leviss]

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Paul Gotch
<paulg...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 07:22:07AM -0700, Jeremy Lee wrote:
>> Can't you just run a MIDI cable out of the RME and back into it? I've
>> tried that before, just as a test, and could control the TotalMix
>> that way.
>
> Simple MIDI control will work that way but if you want to do full
> Mackie HUI then it won't work as you need bidirectional information
> transfer.

So run two cables?

-Andy

[Richard B. Ingraham]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com [mailto:qlab-
> bou...@lists.figure53.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gotch
> Sent: August 02, 2011 8:34 PM
> To: ql...@lists.figure53.com
> Subject: Re: [QLab] Midi control of rme totalmix
>
> - Most things including the RME can't be fully controlled via MIDI they
> tend to speak Mackie Control Protocol.

With the exception of things like MIDI System Exclusive used to update text
on LCD display panels, I'm pretty sure the Mackie Control Protocol just used
standard MIDI Continuous Controllers for most of its functions. Figuring
out what controller number is which function is not always so simple because
they keep the spec close to their vest, but if you dig around the web I
would suspect that you could find someone that took the time to capture the
commands and sort them out.

Anyway, if one was to have the time to experiment it shouldn't be too hard
to figure it out and just send appropriate MIDI CC commands to control these
beasts via MIDI. It's just a two part process, one to figure out what
messages a Mackie surface would be spitting out and then to find out how RME
(or whomever) implemented the Mackie Protocol for their particular product.

Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
www.rbicompaudio.20m.com

[Paul Gotch]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 12:55:35PM -0400, Richard B. Ingraham wrote:
> they keep the spec close to their vest, but if you dig around the web I
> would suspect that you could find someone that took the time to capture the
> commands and sort them out.

Oh there are dodgy copies of the spec floating around on the net. I
have no idea what the legality of clean rooming the protocol by dumping
midi data and writing a softcontrol which could drive an interface
would be. I suspect Mackie wouldn't like it much, and it would cost a
lot to argue with them via lawyers.

So while it's a viable method for a suitably clueful person it's not
something you'd want to build into a system that someone else might
have to support or anything you might want to sell commercially.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Richard B. Ingraham]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com [mailto:qlab-
> bou...@lists.figure53.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gotch
> Sent: August 04, 2011 1:18 PM
> To: ql...@lists.figure53.com
> Subject: Re: [QLab] Midi control of rme totalmix
>

> Oh there are dodgy copies of the spec floating around on the net. I have
no
> idea what the legality of clean rooming the protocol by dumping midi data
> and writing a softcontrol which could drive an interface would be. I
suspect
> Mackie wouldn't like it much, and it would cost a lot to argue with them
via
> lawyers.
>
> So while it's a viable method for a suitably clueful person it's not
something
> you'd want to build into a system that someone else might have to support
> or anything you might want to sell commercially.

For private usage I see no way Mackie could go after you. Now publish the
spec on your web site.. that's another matter. But really, I think they
have better ways to spend their time and money that go after someone that
published a spec on a web page, that really doesn't harm any of their
products.

I didn't think we were talking about selling a commercial product? But if
you were going to do that, simple contact Mackie and become a Mackie Control
developer and I'm sure they will give you the protocol if you have good
reason and ask nicely. I don't know for certain, but I suspect it's really
not that hard to get if you just ask.

I do agree with you of course, if you have something that others need to
maintain. Honestly if it was me, I would just use a real digital mixer and
be done with it. :-)

Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
www.rbicompaudio.20m.com

________________________________________________________

[Charlie Richmond]

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:35, Richard B. Ingraham <rbing...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

But if
you were going to do that, simple contact Mackie and become a Mackie Control
developer and I'm sure they will give you the protocol if you have good
reason and ask nicely.  I don't know for certain, but I suspect it's really
not that hard to get if you just ask.

That is correct.  There is a form and you have to sign a fairly standard NDA then they provide you with the protocol and limited support.  But be warned that the protocol is really ugly....

C-)

 

* Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design - Skype: charlierichmond

* http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com "Performance for the Long Run"

* SoundMan-Server & AudioBox II - the ultimate Virtual Sound System

* LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlierichmond

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* NOTE: Primary and much preferred method of communication is via skype

[Paul Gotch]

On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 10:42:39AM -0700, Charlie Richmond wrote:
> That is correct. There is a form and you have to sign a fairly standard NDA
> then they provide you with the protocol and limited support. But be warned
> that the protocol is really ugly....

Do they place restrictions on usage though? You see lots of hardware
that can respond to a surface and you see DAWs that can respond to a
surface. What you don't see are virtual surfaces or bits of bridge
software to other protocols. I'd expect them to exist, as there is
clearly demand, unless they are forbidden in the license to get hold of
the spec.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Charlie Richmond]

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:56, Paul Gotch <paulg...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Do they place restrictions on usage though?

They want to know what you are developing it for but AFAIK they don't police it.  I think it's mainly just so they know what people are using it for so they can advertise it and point users to third party products.  It's much the same reason we require our licensees to tell us what the project and location of the end use is.

C-)