[QLab] Fwd: Running an ETC Ion with Qlab

[Kyle C. Fisher]

At our school, we have recently built a brand new theatre, and upgraded everything as much as budget would allow.  This includes a computer with Qlab and an ETC Ion lightboard.  While we have got the soundboard communicating with Qlab, and have successfully run full shows with it, we have been unable to make the lightboard communicate with Qlab for a month now, and none of the documentation has been any help.  We have Qlab version 2.2.6 running on an Intel iMac with operating system 10.5.8 connected to an ETC Ion lightboard through a USB Midisport 2x2 converter.  If anyone knows how to make these machines work together, an explanation would be greatly appreciated.

From,

A Bothered Tech Crew

[Dave Rogge]

What way have you tried to get them to communicate?  For some of the shows I run, I send MIDI time code to an Ion.  I'm taking the timecode right out of my MOTU 828mk3 that also feeds audio to the sound console.  Basically, this allows the lighting guy to set up cues that are specific to the time code of each piece of music I play, and also saves me from having to change the times on lighting cues in Qlab.  We've found that the lag at the start of the time code is less than half a second with this setup.

- Dave Rogge -
Audio Supervisor
Cedar Lake Contemporary Ballet
dro...@cedarlakedance.com
212-244-0015 x40

[John Leonard]

I’ve done this for the National Theatre and I seem to remember that involves using MTC and some sort of special adapter box for the Ion, which translates MTC into ANC(?) or something similar. I think we had to set up the MTC defaults in two places on the Ion, but as I’m not at The NT at the moment, I can’t be precise. Rich Walsh might be able to help when he has a moment.

Regards,

John

On 17/12/2009 04:05, "Kyle C. Fisher" <kfi...@mbs.net> wrote:

[Rich Walsh]

On 17 Dec 2009, at 23:23, John Leonard wrote:

> I’ve done this for the National Theatre and I seem to remember that
> involves using MTC and some sort of special adapter box for the Ion,
> which translates MTC into ANC(?) or something similar. I think we
> had to set up the MTC defaults in two places on the Ion, but as I’m
> not at The NT at the moment, I can’t be precise. Rich Walsh might be
> able to help when he has a moment.

Which show? It's unlikely to have been an Ion, actually: I believe
we're using the Eos for most things. From my understanding, if it was
in the Olivier - which has 14 universes, 4 desks and a rack backup
unit (or two), then you would have been physically connecting MIDI to
a Gateway in order to get it onto the ACN and thence trigger all the
various desks, etc, via the network. The "two places" are probably the
Gateway and the Eos itself.

Five minutes with the Ion manual (http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/manuals/Ion_v1.7_Operations_Manual_RevA.pdf
) suggests that in a single-desk setup you can just shove the MIDI
straight into the back of the Ion, turn on "MSC Receive" on the "Show
Control" screen (p98) and set the Device ID (p305): the desk will then
respond to MSC as outlined on pp284-5. The Ion also responds to MTC
(pp280-1).

To understand MSC, you can't really beat Charlie's specification: http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/docs/midi-show-control-specification.pdf
.

The upshot is that if you send this SysEx string to an Ion with the
default Device ID of 1 it will GO the next cue in the default cue list:

F0 7F 01 02 01 01 F7

In a QLab SysEx cue you won't need the F0 or F7 - or, if you have the
appropriate license, you can use the handy MSC Cue to build this
string for you.

If there is a more specific question, our lighting programmers have
been working with ETC on the development of the Eos/Ion range, so I
can probably find someone who knows the answer.

Rich
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[Paul C. Fisher]

"Discussion and support for QLab users." <ql...@lists.figure53.com> writes:

Five minutes with the Ion manual (http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/manuals/Ion_v1.7_Operations_Manual_RevA.pdf

) suggests that in a single-desk setup you can just shove the MIDI  

straight into the back of the Ion, turn on "MSC Receive" on the "Show  

Control" screen (p98) and set the Device ID (p305): the desk will then  

respond to MSC as outlined on pp284-5. The Ion also responds to MTC  

(pp280-1).

To understand MSC, you can't really beat Charlie's specification: http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/docs/midi-show-control-specification.pdf

.

The upshot is that if you send this SysEx string to an Ion with the  

default Device ID of 1 it will GO the next cue in the default cue list:

        F0 7F 01 02 01 01 F7

In a QLab SysEx cue you won't need the F0 or F7 - or, if you have the  

appropriate license, you can use the handy MSC Cue to build this  

string for you.

If there is a more specific question, our lighting programmers have  

been working with ETC on the development of the Eos/Ion range, so I  

can probably find someone who knows the answer.

Rich

We will check into these suggestions. Thanks. Your read of the manual is the same as ours. More or less this isn't rocket science and should 'just work'.

The set up we have is a OS X 10.5.x iMac with a Midi-Man 2x2 USB interface. MIDI-A is driving the Mackie TT24 and works like a charm from QLab. MIDI-B is connected to the MIDI inputs on the back of the Ion so we don't think this requires us to use MTC or any sort of adapter. The Ion manual states that the board supports MSC. We are fairly sure that the problem is we do not understand something about matching the device and source IDs in the Ion screens with whatever QLab is sending. Device IDs I understand. Source ID is a new one to me and I don't see any reference to that in the QLab screens for MSC set-up.

Right now all we want is some hint that the Ion is hearing the incoming MSC stream. We've tried most of the permutations we can think of but, in truth, our time to experiment with the board has been a little constrained by our ability to get the light guy and the sound guy together when the control both is available for tinkering. ( people do tend to actually want to use the theater ... go figure )

It is helpful to know that there is not some mystical incantation we are missing. Basically I'm a sound guy. These light consoles all seem to me to have bad juju.

PcF

[Rich Walsh]

On 18 Dec 2009, at 01:39, Paul C. Fisher wrote:

> The set up we have is a OS X 10.5.x iMac with a Midi-Man 2x2 USB
> interface. MIDI-A is driving the Mackie TT24 and works like a charm
> from QLab. MIDI-B is connected to the MIDI inputs on the back of the
> Ion so we don't think this requires us to use MTC or any sort of
> adapter. The Ion manual states that the board supports MSC. We are
> fairly sure that the problem is we do not understand something about
> matching the device and source IDs in the Ion screens with whatever
> QLab is sending. Device IDs I understand. Source ID is a new one to
> me and I don't see any reference to that in the QLab screens for MSC
> set-up.

The Ion has separate MSC Device IDs for commands it receives ("MSC
Receive Channel") and commands it sends out ("MSC Transmit Channel").
The commands sent to the Ion from QLab need to match the "MSC Receive
Channel".

I misread p305 last night: this screen sets the "group number" for the
MIDI ports, not the Device ID. It's not immediately clear what they
mean by "group number", but I suspect it is related to ACN - and
therefore not relevant in this case. The default Device ID will be 0,
not 1 as I said earlier.

> Right now all we want is some hint that the Ion is hearing the
> incoming MSC stream. We've tried most of the permutations we can
> think of but, in truth, our time to experiment with the board has
> been a little constrained by our ability to get the light guy and
> the sound guy together when the control both is available for
> tinkering. ( people do tend to actually want to use the theater ...
> go figure )

Try sending with Device ID 127: an "all call" (and Command Format "All
Types"). The only things that should stop that working are not
enabling MSC on the Ion or the MIDI from QLab not actually getting out
of the end of the cable.

[Charlie Richmond]

On Fri, 18 Dec 2009, Rich Walsh wrote:

> I misread p305 last night: this screen sets the "group number" for the MIDI
> ports, not the Device ID. It's not immediately clear what they mean by "group
> number", but I suspect it is related to ACN - and therefore not relevant in
> this case. The default Device ID will be 0, not 1 as I said earlier.

Groups are defined in the MSC spec but are very rarely used. Whatever group (or
no group...) is chosen makes no difference to the response involving specific
device IDs.

> Try sending with Device ID 127: an "all call" (and Command Format "All
> Types"). The only things that should stop that working are not enabling MSC
> on the Ion or the MIDI from QLab not actually getting out of the end of the
> cable.

Excellent suggestion!

Charlie