[QLab] multiple video streams in sync

[ra byn (robin)]

I've been asked to look into having (5) different videos play for an
exhibit at a museum where I do A/V work.

If I had the extra gear, I'd do it as everything else is done in the
building.

(5) Pioneer DVD 7400
a custom show controller via RS232 running on a schedule
push button ON
push button OFF

The exhibit will loop for 8 hours a day 7 days a week & so other than
start & stop commands the rest will be automatic. It could run on a
schedule.

Since DVD players wear out & this museum is 10+ years old, it might be a
good audition for Qlab:)

So:

(5) Mac Mini (hidden in the walls) with blue tooth mice & keyboards & IP
midi between them?

Is there a way to keep everything sync-ed via MTC or some other format
with extra hardware???

Since the actual loop would probably only be 5 to 15 minutes long & then
restart, might everything stay close in time over that period with an
actual sync method?

I guess a Mac Pro with multiple outputs would solve a lot of this but I
have some older mac mini's to work with if I have to go this route.

From what I can tell, the video footage will be complete so Qlab would
just play & stop. No fading / adjustment / etc...

FYI, the mac minis that I can borrow already have Isadora on them from a
different production. IF Isadora would be just as capable or able to do
the job, that would be fine. I'd just need to learn how to use it. Of
course I'd prefer to use Qlab so I can use what I already know.

I have (4) modern video monitors & (1) HD TV to use (meaning no composite
video option)

Any simple & cost effective solutions come to mind?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

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[Matthew Haber]

I don't think that QLab currently supports frame accurate synchronization across multiple playback computers. There are numerous ways to do this with Isadora and that might be your best bet since you don't have to buy it. If you email me I can discuss various Isadora sync methods but it can be done rather easily via a standard network. This could also be done via Quartz Composer depending on how old the Mac Minis in question are.

Matthew Haber
Visualist and Designer
Isadora, Quartz and Watchout Programming
www.matthewhaber.com
617-435-9257

[Sean Dougall]

Matthew's correct -- you can trigger all the QLab machines at the same time, but they'll all run off their own independent clocks. If you can minimize the network latency, use ethernet instead of wifi, and make sure all the videos are preloaded, you'll *probably* stay about as close as can be discerned. But it's not guaranteed, and it may very well not be frame-accurate. It should be at least as good as the DVD setup you described, though. :-)

Since the setup is five different videos, the question becomes how tight the sync actually needs to be. If 2-3 frames of latency or drift is close enough, then you should be able to get QLab to work fine across modern Mac minis. But if there are any obvious cuts that have to be in sync across videos, then you might need to go with a media server application that guarantees frame-accurate sync.

Sean

On Oct 1, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Matthew Haber wrote:

> I don't think that QLab currently supports frame accurate synchronization across multiple playback computers. There are numerous ways to do this with Isadora and that might be your best bet since you don't have to buy it. If you email me I can discuss various Isadora sync methods but it can be done rather easily via a standard network. This could also be done via Quartz Composer depending on how old the Mac Minis in question are.

________________________________________________________

[ra byn (robin)]

Thank you both,

I think (4) of the (5) streams are a montage (fade in / fade out) in which
case who cares about sync :)

I just wanted to go into the meeting knowing what is possible & what isn't.

Out of curiosity, how many outputs can one modern Mac Pro provide & would
those streams be sync-ed be default since they're coming off the same
machine?

*

On Sat, October 1, 2011 8:11 pm, Sean Dougall wrote:
> Matthew's correct -- you can trigger all the QLab machines at the same
> time, but they'll all run off their own independent clocks. If you can
> minimize the network latency, use ethernet instead of wifi, and make sure
> all the videos are preloaded, you'll *probably* stay about as close as can
> be discerned. But it's not guaranteed, and it may very well not be
> frame-accurate. It should be at least as good as the DVD setup you
> described, though. :-)
>
> Since the setup is five different videos, the question becomes how tight
> the sync actually needs to be. If 2-3 frames of latency or drift is close
> enough, then you should be able to get QLab to work fine across modern Mac
> minis. But if there are any obvious cuts that have to be in sync across
> videos, then you might need to go with a media server application that
> guarantees frame-accurate sync.

[Taylor John]

We run 6 SD video streams off a single Mac Pro. It requires 2X Hard drives to get the data out though.

Cheers

JT

Sent from my iPhone

>
> Out of curiosity, how many outputs can one modern Mac Pro provide & would
> those streams be sync-ed be default since they're coming off the same
> machine?

[Chris Eschweiler]

HI, ra byn

I've use both a Mantis (8 channel output) and a Firefly (4 channel output) for keeping consumer HP TVs sync'd in a client's tradeshow booth for years.  Digital signage servers with multiple outputs are quite capable and their scheduling and playlist capabilities allow them to start, stop and re-sync themselves without additional user input. They can also be updated locally or over a network.

Synchronizing DVD players is doable, but a media server has fewer pieces to cobble together.

Hiding Mac Minis in the walls is a bad idea...not a healthy environment for a commputer. Heat, dust...I would think that's going to be fraught with more problems than you're looking to deal with over the course of a year.

That's just my two cents.

Chris

On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:27 PM, qlab-r...@lists.figure53.com wrote:

Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 17:24:37 -0500
From: "ra byn"

[ra byn (robin)]

Chris,

Good points & I've looked into what you suggested. Either option seem
perfect except I don't think any of the monitors we have at our disposal
will accept a composite / component input :(

So I think we're stuck going the computer route which is fine be me as
long as they give me the files in time to experiment & learn what I need
to get it to work (yeah right!!!)

Re: walls & dust

The walls should be the free standing type. Probably 8 to 10" thick with
an open top so heat wouldn't be an issue. Some dust but no more than what
is in the room already.

Thanks to everyone for their responses!

I guess I need to get my hands on the mac minis & start testing.

Best regards,

ra byn

On Sun, October 2, 2011 6:53 pm, Chris Eschweiler wrote:
> HI, ra byn
> I've use both a Mantis (8 channel output) and a Firefly (4 channel
output)
> for keeping consumer HP TVs sync'd in a client's tradeshow booth for
years. Digital signage servers with multiple outputs are quite capable
and their scheduling and playlist capabilities allow them to start, stop
and re-sync themselves without additional user input. They can also be
updated locally or over a network.
> Synchronizing DVD players is doable, but a media server has fewer pieces
to cobble together.
> Hiding Mac Minis in the walls is a bad idea...not a healthy environment
for a commputer. Heat, dust...I would think that's going to be fraught
with more problems than you're looking to deal with over the course of a
year.

[Schroepfer, Tim]

My 2 cents for an install that will be playing constantly is to use a video bin loop player like the acorn mcbride model. It has no moving parts will take rs232 or contacts or Ethernet to trigger and will operate for years without failure. Using a spinning hard disk 24/7 is asking for a failure.

Best

Tim Schroepfer
Ucla

[John Taylor]

Hello,

If you want to go down that path check out these.

1/4 the price of Alcorn McBride

www.brightsign.biz

JT

[ra byn (robin)]

Love it! I'm checking on pricing but it might be way outside the museums
budget. Maybe not.

They've got a bunch of worn out DVD players that are failing by the week,
maybe it could replace them all after the exhibit closes. How hard is it
to get from RGB to HDMI / VGA / etc...?

In the meantime, staying with the mac mini concept, how about SSDs for the
existing mac minis to get around the "bound to crash HD" situation?

The video content will be minimal & so even one of these in a FW box per
mini would probably be enough. I could even install the OS on it & boot
from it if necessary

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/SSDMX030/

Feel better about long term usage with an SSD?

*

On Sun, October 2, 2011 10:34 pm, Schroepfer, Tim wrote:
> My 2 cents for an install that will be playing constantly is to use a
> video bin loop player like the acorn mcbride model. It has no moving parts
> will take rs232 or contacts or Ethernet to trigger and will operate for
> years without failure. Using a spinning hard disk 24/7 is asking for a
> failure.

[John Leonard]

Just FYI, the Madame Tussauds New York 42nd Street exhibition ran eight RSD Audioboxes with hard-drives, sixteen hours a day, seven days a week, 364 days a year (Christmas Day off) for ten years without a single hard-drive failure. They were replaced this year with the later RSD systems, which are based on custom-built PCs with SSDs.

Regards,

John

On 3 Oct 2011, at 04:34, Schroepfer, Tim wrote:

> Using a spinning hard disk 24/7 is asking for a failure.

________________________________________________________

[ra byn (robin)]

Wow that's great too!

Can (5) of them be controlled like one big presentation?

Bring this thread back to Qlab, can Qlab trigger 1 or more of these via
midi / applescripts / new IP cue / etc...

Can video be full screen? I see mention of tickers & clocks & such...

Sure looks like they could mount on the wall behind the monitors. Maybe a
cat5 cable to a hub & computer somewhere & fini! Under budget & useful
after the exhibit closes.

Thanks!

ra byn

On Sun, October 2, 2011 10:41 pm, John Taylor wrote:
> Hello,
>
> If you want to go down that path check out these.
>
> 1/4 the price of Alcorn McBride
>
> www.brightsign.biz

[Smith, Andy]

Have you thought about using a dual or triple head device? I think you
might be able to connect to monitors using VGA over cat 5 adaptors, and
then get one machine to run 3 displays. You might, although I've not
tried it, get one machine to output to 5 devices using 2 triple heads.

You would need to remaster the clips, but that could be done using the
custom settings in Quicktime.

Just another quick & easy thought!

Regards

Andy C. Smith
Technical Manager
South Holland Centre
Market Place
Spalding
Lincolnshire
PE11 1SS

01775 764872

Andy...@sholland.gov.uk

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[John Taylor]

We use the HD410. and set one as the master and slave the others by contact closure. Buy one and have a play.

On 03/10/2011, at 1:57 PM, ra byn (robin) wrote:

> Wow that's great too!
>
> Can (5) of them be controlled like one big presentation?

________________________________________________________

[Schroepfer, Tim]

I have no doubt that there are many hard disks that have been spinning for years. I think if you can eliminate a point of failure you should. It may not always be feasible or cost effective, but for me it is always the starting point.

Tim

[Schroepfer, Tim]

This looks awesome.

 

Thanks for the tip.

 

From: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com [mailto:qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com] On Behalf Of John Taylor
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:41 PM
To: Discussion and support for QLab users.
Subject: Re: [QLab] multiple video streams in sync

 

Hello,