[feature request] Add option in a cue's basics tab to skip cue if disarmed

[Will]

Hi,

I had this idea for a feature request to add an option in a cue's basics tab to skip a cue if it is disarmed, and before I wrote this, I searched this google group to see if skipping disarmed cues has been discussed before, and found that it has come up a few times and it turns out to be very contentious.

This is generally a very supportive community, so I was a bit surprised when I read through the past threads and saw how personal and toxic some of them got, so I felt I needed to put preemptively put some disclaimers out there:

It's ok to disagree with me here, just please be civil.

I love QLab, I use it a lot, and I think the team behind it are amazing. If this hasn't been implemented because it is impossible to code, and not because it's a feature Figure 53 doesn't think is wanted, then fair enough. I'm not a coder, and I think people often underestimate how hard it is to design software. If it's not possible, then it's not possible.

If it is possible though, then I'd love if Figure 53 could revisit this idea. I'm starting a new request because I think the last time it was requested was before QLab 5 came out so maybe what wasn't possible before is possible now, and because I think I have a unique idea about how this can implemented in a way where most people will be happy (at least I think I do, some of the past threads were long, I could have missed someone suggesting this exact implantation, apologies if I'm not as original as I think I am :)  Also, some of past discussions got toxic and I think a fresh start would be good.

Sorry for the long intro.

Would it be possible to add a checkbox in a cue's "Basics" tab to skip the cue if it is disarmed?

For example:

Why do I want this?

I love QLab, but the inability to skip cues I think is one of it's biggest weaknesses, and adding the feature would make QLab much more powerful. Usually I want disarmed cues to behave exactly like they currently do. However, in certain situations I wish we had an option to skip a disarmed cue (individually per cue, not globally) so it can be a placeholder, essentially act like a deleted cue but with the advantage of easily being able to quickly restore it. There are many scenarios where this would be useful, but here are a few:

• As far as I can tell, there is no way to script this behavior (let me know if there is!), this is only something that can happen if it is built into QLab.
  
  
• When designing a show, this would make experimenting with different cues much easier - and more importantly less disruptive to your workflow.  After a while moving cues back and forth (or building two similar groups that you go back and forth between), can become a real workflow killer.
  
  
• In complex auto-follow and/or auto-continue sequences it is currently awkward to A/B or temporarily remove cues from. Regular disarming is not an option in auto-follow sequences and playlists because you have to wait for them to complete before the next cue will play. So the most common workaround is to move a cue to "graveyard" cue list so you can move it back later. IMO for complex auto-follow/continue sequences and/or timeline/playlist groups, this is not a good option, especially when you have to restore a cue days, weeks, or months later. From my experience, this is one of the most common places where mistakes are made in QLab programming, even with good notes the cue is not always dropped back in the exact right place, often because other cues around it's original location may have changed, plus human memories are... human. If we could keep a skipped cue in the sequence, then as other cues around it change, it will always stay in the right place. Also if it's a cue that you are pretty confident you will eventually need in the future, since you can see it while you change other cues, it stays on your mind about how you may eventually restore it.
  
  
• In the theater world, when in tech and a director wants to A/B an audio or video clip (especially if it is in the middle of a complex sequence) being able to just go back and forth disarming/arming the new and old cue each time you play the sequence would save massive amounts of time in tech. And saving time in tech is a big deal.
  
  Once that is locked in you can delete any cues you had marked as skipped.
  
  
• Another similar scenario in tech: when a director wants to replace an audio or video clip in the middle of a complex sequence "but isn't sure and we might change it back later" and then 4 days later decides they do actually want to use the original clip... Instead of deleting/moving the cue in the director's crosshair, for all the reasons mentioned above it would be a huge timesaver when the director inevitably changes their mind and all you have to do is re-arm it.
  
  
• Last minute cast or show changes. A scene may be cut for the 2pm show, but they want to keep it for the 8pm. Always a PIA, but being able to skip a group would be huge. This is extra relevant in cabaret and night club shows where sometimes there is a pool of performers and every night can have a different combination of performers.
  
  
• Chaotic one-off shows with not enough tech time. We all hate to do them, but most of us get roped into them more than we'd like. It's a dance competition, you have 4 hours to set up and "rehearse," and 40 songs on a flash drive were just thrown at you. There are a lot of last min changes and injuries. This is where QLab shines, and I bet chaotic one-offs are where a fair amount of people got their start with QLab. Earlier you deleted a song you were told was cut because the dancer left the building, but oh wait, they actually were just crying in a closet for an hour and they are ready to go on... right now! I wish I could have just skipped that cue instead of deleting it. Oh well, the audience will just awkwardly wait while you frantically try to find the song to add back into QLab...
  
  
• Dynamic shows that have a lot of improve or audience interaction, but still have a script where there are multiple forks the show could go down. If you can change "Skip if disarmed" state through OSC and apple script, with some careful programming you can do some really cool stuff. QLab has been used for these types of shows before, and being able to skip cues would simplify programing and make QLab even more powerful.
  
  
• Look through the QLab Cookbook, a bunch receipts would be simplified if you could skip cues.
  

[Will]

D'oh hit post too soon, continued below... If you haven't please read the previous post first, please read it before continuing.

Below is how I would imagine this working. I think there have been very good points made in the past by the people who are against having the ability to skip disarmed cues, so hopefully these also address many of their concerns.

• By default the "Skip if disarmed" checkbox would be unchecked, so by default disarmed cues would work exactly have they always worked.
  
  
• This would be an individual setting per cue, not a global setting.
  
  
• When "Skip if disarmed" is checked the cue would act as if was not there. Or like it was set to auto-continue with a pre and post wait time of 0.
  
  
• If the skipped cue is in a playlist or timeline group, then it would act like it's duration is also 0, so all cues after it in the group would have their times updated and the total time the playlist/timeline group shows would also be updated sodoesn't include the duration of the skipped cue.
  
  
• When cue is disarmed and "Skip if disarmed" is checked it would be very clear in the UI. It would look different than a regular disarmed cue and have a special flag.
  For example (fair warning, I am not a graphic designer, so these are mock-up suggestions, please be kind. Figure 53 is awesome at what they do and would obviously design much better graphics):

• If the skipped cue is in a group, the group would also be flagged with an icon that is similar but different than the skipped flag (so you know the group isn't skipped). Maybe a flag with an "S" in it?
  
  
• If you have skipped cues disarmed in your workspace, they would show up in the warnings window, similar to how flagged cues are. So if you are handed a pre-built QLab workspace, you will know it has skipped cues and you easily find them, go to them, and make sure there are no issues.
  
  
• Ideally it would be possible to change a cue's "skip if disarmed" status through OSC and apple script.
  
  

Other counter arguments addressed:

•  A good point brought up about skipping disarmed cues is: if for example, you had a lighting cue auto continuing from a sound cue, and the next cue was another audio cue, would you really want the second audio cue to play with the first audio cue if you disarmed the lighting cue to try the sequence without it?
  
  I had the same thought at first, but you're faced with the same question if you delete or move the lighting cue, and you wouldn't argue that you shouldn't be allowed to move or delete cues in QLab. So as long it is clear in the UI when a cue will be skipped, this should not be any more of an issue than it is when you delete or move cues. Just like when deleting or moving a cue, the designer has to be conscious of how the cues before it are programmed.
  
  
• A related anti-skip argument to the above point is that for some shows in auto-follow/continue sequences timing is very important and skipping the cue would mess up your timings. But in that case you would just keep the disarmed cue as a normal disarmed cue so it wouldn't be skipped. It isn't a global option, so you aren't forced to skip disarmed cues. And in this case, you would not chose to skip a cue.
  

If you made it this far, thanks for listening!

[sftechguy]

I've also wanted this kind of functionality for many of the same reasons you provided.

A well thought out presentation -- nicely done!

-s

[Chris Ashworth]

Thanks for this thoughtful and thorough discussion Will!

I’ve copied it over (along with all the images and formatting) into our issue tracker.  

I appreciate the time and care you put into it, and I’m sure the idea will continue to percolate in our heads.

-C

[sftechguy]

A related thing to consider is allowing the Arm/Disarm cue type to also set or clear the skip flag (in addition to arming/disarming).

-s

[Will Wade-Pentel]

Thanks Chris and sftechguy!

Sent from my phone. Please forgive any typos.

My workday may look different than yours, and I may send emails outside of normal business hours. Please do not feel obligated to respond outside of your typical working hours.

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[Paul]

Doesn't Go To Cue do this already?

I don't have much of an opinion on this - I rarely disarm cues - anything not in the show can be moved to 'not used' cuelist or deleted (knowing the file is still there if needed).

Just don't see it as a priority for development effort and the more options you add to the user interface, the more potential confusion for new users and inexperienced operators.

[Will]

Just want to clarify that while Go To cues are similar, they aren't the same as a skipped cue for two reasons.

1) A skipped cue would tell QLab to go to the next cue. Go To cues tell QLab to go to a specific cue.

For ex, let's say you have 5 audio cues, and you want to skip Audio B (cue 2) with a Go To:

Cue 1: Audio A

Go To cue 3 Audio C

Cue 2: Audio B

Cue 3: Audio C

Cue 4: Audio D

Cue 5: Audio E

So far so good. But if the show is changed later so that Audio C (cue 3) needs to come after Audio D (cue 4):

Cue 1: Audio A

Go To cue 3 Audio C

Cue 2: Audio B

Cue 4: Audio D

Cue 3: Audio C

Cue 5: Audio E

Now 2 cues will be skipped (audio B and audio D), which was not intended. If you renumber the cues so they are back in order, the Go To cue will still go to Audio C, because go to cues are locked to the target cue, not cue numbers. Which is a useful feature, but makes using Go To cues for skipping cues tricky and you have to be really careful.

For a simple show this is fine, but it becomes messy with more complex shows.

[Will]

2) Go To cues can't be used to skip a cue in auto-follow sequences, and if the Go To is set to auto-follow then it won't skip the intended cue at all. Also it puts your playhead is in the wrong place. See attached screen recording.

To use Go To as a skip in an auto-follow sequence you have break the sequence, use a start cue targeting the cue after the one you want to skip, and use a Go To cue to target the next cue after the sequence (not the cue after the "skipped" cue) so that your playhead is in the correct place for your next GO. Now you also have the disadvantage from reason 1, we are locked to a specific cue and not just the next cue.

A simpler way to skip a cue in an auto-follow sequence is to put the cue in a "Start first" group, disarm the cue, and set the group to auto-follow. This won't let you A/B two different cues in an auto-follow sequence though, which a skipped cue would. Btw this method for skipping a cue does not work in Playlist groups, "start first" groups seem to break Playlists! And if you set the playlist to auto-follow, weird things happen, the playlist will start the next cue before it even gets to the group, like the playlist was set to auto-continue. Screen recording attached.

Confusingly, in a Playlist you can skip cues just by disarming them, which I thought wasn't supposed to happen? @Chris, maybe that's a bug? 

The total time of the playlist will also still include the disarmed cue time even though it skips it. As far as I know, disarming a cue in a playlist is the only time a disarmed cue is skipped instead of running through it's timings. 

Weirdly, if you set the playlist to auto-follow, it does go through the timings of the disarmed cue, but in the wrong place - it adds the time to the end of the playlist instead of where the disarmed cue is. Screen recordings are attached of examples of these different behaviors.

So yeah, skipping cues is kind of a mess right now. There is not a consistent and quick way to do it without it being added into QLab as a feature.

[Will Wade-Pentel]

Sorry, I couldn't attach the screen recordings because they were too large. I had to upload them google drive:

 Go To skip test - Auto-follow won't skip.mov

 Playlist 1 - start group breaks playlist.mov

 Playlist 2 - auto follow start group weirdness.mov

 Playlist 3 - disarmed cue skip without timings ...

 Playlist 4 - auto follow disarmed timings in wr...

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[Will]

Hi Figure 53 team, I just wanted to say a huge thanks for adding this feature in v5.5!!

I actually first noticed the "Skip if disarmed" checkbox while playing around with an object audio fade cue, so it was like finding a gift within a gift haha.

This is a huge quality of life improvement and I can't wait to use it in the future. Thanks and great job with all the new 5.5 features!