Qlab & Presonus 1818VSL???

[ra byn (robin)]

Anyone successfully using a Presonus 1818VSL with Qlab? If so, any issues?

If not, I might get one next week & test things myself.

Best regards,

ra byn (robin)

[Andy Dolph]

I've been curious about it - particularly the midi controllability of it's mixer functions...

Andy

[Andy Leviss]

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:07 PM, ra byn (robin) <ra...@rabyn.com> wrote:

> Anyone successfully using a Presonus 1818VSL with Qlab? If so, any issues?

DIdn't somebody on the Theatre-Sound list just have multiple
disastrous failures with Presonus consoles lately, or was that Roland?

--A

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Consoles - I think not with the interfaces though. I picked up the smaller version - the 44VSL to use for a MIDI in/out on a show in October, and so far it's been pretty clean. Have not needed to run audio as the system has a Dante card. But in quick testing after hookup, it seems to work fine. No difficulties with it for MIDI in out in QLab.

Dave Tosti-Lane

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[ra byn (robin)]

Dave,

Have you by any chance tried using the VSL app to process Qlab outputs
(eq, compression, reverb)? If so, do they get routed thru the VSL
automatically if you select the device in Qlab for audio & have the VSL
app open? If so, what happens to the audio signal if you close the VSL
app?

I can't tell from the 1818 manual if there is a way to configure an 1818
box to act as a stand alone I/O but if so one could use (2) 1818s (one as
the master & one as an ADAT out) for 16 outputs. Around $1000

Or

An 1818 with a used Digimax FS (via adat) is probably about the cheapest
route to get to 16 outputs at this point. Around $750. If it all works.

If I get one next week, I'll post my experience with Qlab...

Best regards,

ra byn (robin)

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Sorry, haven't tried that - won't be back in the space for a few weeks so can't test for you.
I see one reference on their support forum that suggests it does not work stand-alone.

Dave

[Andy Dolph]

One of their videos (somewhere on the Presonus site - I don't remember where) said specifically that it will NOT work standalone - it's using the computer for DSP.

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Dave Tosti-Lane <DTost...@cornish.edu> wrote:

Consoles - I think not with the interfaces though.

Ill put this one to rest(Well not really but at least give my opinion;), I have had multiple failures of Presonus interfaces that make me stear away from using them for anything but their standalone processing(ACP88, DigimaxFS, etc.)  I just don't find anything that connects to a computer to be stable enough for me, and this holds true for other people I have talked to as well, though I am certain there are good experiences outt here, in the long haul I hear about, or have experienced, to many failures.

     Thomas

[ra byn (robin)]

Thomas,

Can you give the details that helped you form your "opinion"?

For what it's worth, I personally own (5) Presonus Firebox.

With 6 balanced outputs, midi & the ability to run on buss power, I
haven't found another audio / midi device that is so "swiss army" for Qlab
use. The Mac OS doesn't even require a driver for the device to work!

After 3 plus years of production use with Qlab & Fireboxes, I haven't had
a single issue. Old & new OSes, old & new Macs. No issues.

On the other hand, I never got them to work with 2 MS Vista PC laptops but
I can't blame that on Presonus since they started working on the same
computers once upgraded to with Win7.

Another arts group that I assist uses Qlab with a Firestudio Project for
all their shows & they haven't had a single issue either.

If you do have specific details regarding Qlab issues with Presonus gear,
I would suggest you post them here so that others can make an informed
decision.

http://wiki.figure53.com/QLab+Tested+Hardware

Considering that Presonus has made many different audio interfaces for
many years, I find it doubtful that every "non" stand alone device they
make is a dud. I find it extremely likely that some of them or their
drivers at some point had/have issues but that doesn't drive me to give up
on the product line. Only to avoid the ones that have problems.

Since their USB audio line is so new & if you haven't had issues with any
Presonus USB devices, I certainly wouldn't take your firewire device
experience & apply it to the USB line. Just as I wouldn't take my Windows
issues with any audio device & assume that the same issues will apply to
Mac use without testing it myself.

Hopefully you have concrete & specific details so we can all learn
something useful here.

I will state that I don't choose MOTU audio interfaces but it's not
because they don't work. It's because I don't like the companies way of
dealing with issues & making drivers password protected. For that matter I
don't like Presonus' tech support much either. I've had more issues with
my RME FF800 than any other interface. Metric Halo is king as far as
support goes & I wouldn't even consider a Presonus 1818VSL if the MH 2882
had midi I/O.

Best regards,

ra byn (robin)

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM, ra byn (robin) <ra...@rabyn.com> wrote:

Considering that Presonus has made many different audio interfaces for
many years, I find it doubtful that every "non" stand alone device they
make is a dud. I find it extremely likely that some of them or their
drivers at some point had/have issues but that doesn't drive me to give up
on the product line. Only to avoid the ones that have problems.

My problems have ranged across most of their Firewire lineup. The reports I have heard range across their entire lineup though my direct experience has been with their rackmount units (The Firestudios and Firepods before that IIRC).

 

Since their USB audio line is so new & if you haven't had issues with any
Presonus USB devices, I certainly wouldn't take your firewire device
experience & apply it to the USB line. Just as I wouldn't take my Windows
issues with any audio device & assume that the same issues will apply to
Mac use without testing it myself.

I do only because my experience has ranged across their entire lineup, suggesting it isn't a problem with just one line of interfaces.  As a result I prefer to look elsewhere in general as I don't feel like being burned again on that front.  But to each their own, I was responding to a comment that suggested their interface don't give problems, which I disagree with.

 

Hopefully you have concrete & specific details so we can all learn
something useful here.

How much detail do you want precisely?  I am referring to hardware failures, not software, meaning the hardware was tested in multiple OSes and in many cases multiple computers (And those that weren't stopped working, as opposed to never worked, with the computer and I didn't have time/equipment to test on other computers at the time), and failed to function in any despite various typical troubleshooting methods (Driver reinstalls, etc.)
 

I will state that I don't choose MOTU audio interfaces but it's not
because they don't work. It's because I don't like the companies way of
dealing with issues & making drivers password protected. For that matter I
don't like Presonus' tech support much either. I've had more issues with
my RME FF800 than any other interface. Metric Halo is king as far as
support goes & I wouldn't even consider a Presonus 1818VSL if the MH 2882
had midi I/O.

I also do not use MOTU, both because of the company and because when I did use them I was in general not a fan of how they worked, especially those with built in DSP/Mixers.  These days I got with Echo, or Focusrite now that v2 of their drivers for their Saffire Firewire line has come out seems to have solved my problems I had with them.  I also do like RME and have not had a bad experience with them myself though I do hear of those poping up every now and then.  I have not used MH yet though I have heard good things about them, and haven't used Apogee in a situation where I needed dependable track count output and input to comment though I do love using them for my recordings.

      Thomas

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM, ra byn (robin) <ra...@rabyn.com> wrote:

Metric Halo is king as far as
support goes & I wouldn't even consider a Presonus 1818VSL if the MH 2882
had midi I/O.

Out of curiosity why not use a seperate MIDI only Interface in that case?

   Thomas

[ra byn (robin)]

Good question Thomas,

mainly cost:

(3) 2882 without +DSP = around $6000 without midi
(3) 1818 = $1500

Other than that, there is no good reason not to use 2882s instead of 1818s
& I probably will.

The other reason I am curious about 1818s is because I also know of a few
Qlab users who need a better audio i/o & if this one works it would be
great for them.

One of which just has their Echo 12 die right before a show. RME FF800 &
Presonus Digimax FS to the rescue...

Best regards,

ra byn

[Andy Dolph]

What Echo and Focusrite interfaces do you use?

Sent from my iPhone

-- 

[ra byn (robin)]

Since it appears no one else has tried an 1818VSL with Qlab & since I have
little to lose by doing so myself since Guitar Center has a 30 day return
policy, I'll probably buy an 1818VSLIf asap.

If so, what tests would list members like performed?

My normal Qlab audio I/O tests would include at least a few days of
looping audio cues (found a memory leak in Qlab a few years ago doing
this), random midi triggering, letting the rig sit idle for extended
periods of time, testing all outputs...

In this case I would also test Qlab with the VSL app open & covering
reverb, eq & compression duties to see if that is stable.

Different sample rates?

What else to try to break it?

Let me know,

ra byn (robin)

[Thomas Vecchione]

Echo Audiofire 12, 8, and 4, depending on where we are talking about and what the needs are.

Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Pro24DSP.  The Pro24s haven't been in use to long yet, but I haven't had a problem with them yet for basic playback duties.  I did have problems with the Saffire drivers until v2 of them came out however.

     Thomas Vecchione

[ra byn (robin)]

For those interested, the Presonus Audiobox line requires OS 10.6 or later.

My A & B 2008 ballet Macs are still running 10.5.8

Any reason not to upgrade to 10.6?

Thanks,

ra byn

[Thomas Vecchione]

10.6 Upgrade I don't have a problem recommending, provided you have plenty of time to do adequate testing of course.

10.7 on the other hand, I do have a bit more problems recommending.

      Thomas

[Andy Leviss]

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Vecchione <seab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 10.7 on the other hand, I do have a bit more problems recommending.

Thomas, would you mind elaborating what specific problems you have?
We've held off on Lion as long as we can on production machines, but
we're at a point of having to buy more hardware, and can only get
Mini's with Lion now. Thus far, downgrading them to 10.6.8 has proven
problematic, due to video glitches of various sorts. I'm working on
tracking down a copy of an early 2011 MacBook Pro restore disk, which
allegedly is the same hardware as the Mini, and will do a functional
downgrade, but won't know if that actually works for at least a day,
if not next week.

So I'm trying to figure out what real world issues folks have run into
with 10.7 on production QLab machines. I've held off on my personal
machine, but mostly for a few stragglers that require Rosetta.

Thanks,
Andy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Leviss
ETCP Certified Entertainment Electrician #1251

DucksEchoSound.com
Home of the Perfect Pickle Mini Chain Hoist Controller
and the MR-6 MIDI Remote, 2011 Live Design Product of the Year

[Andy Dolph]

I've been running 10.7 on a bunch of machines, production and otherwise and have not had any trouble with Qlab.  I'm fairly comfortable with it and have trusted it for major events (but I do mostly one-offs not long runs, if that matters....)

Qlab on 10.7 runs my most complicated projection work (created on 10.6) just fine.  I haven't done any really complex audio stuff on 10.7 yet, but don't see any reason it won't work as well as the simpler audio stuff I have done.

That said - I did keep a couple of my machines on 10.6 for quite a while after I moved the main machines to 10.7 just in case....

Andy

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Andy Leviss <an...@ducksecho.com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Vecchione <seab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 10.7 on the other hand, I do have a bit more problems recommending.

[E Riley Casey]

I just bought a MacBook pro refurb from the apple store specifically to avoid any lion issues ( for a variety of software not the least of which was ponying up $1500 for a new copy of Vectorworks ). Options do exist for a while at least and hopefully by the time lion .2 or .3 arrives software issues will be resolved.

Sent from my Radio telefone

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Andy Leviss <an...@ducksecho.com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Vecchione <seab...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 10.7 on the other hand, I do have a bit more problems recommending.

Thomas, would you mind elaborating what specific problems you have?
We've held off on Lion as long as we can on production machines, but
we're at a point of having to buy more hardware, and can only get
Mini's with Lion now. Thus far, downgrading them to 10.6.8 has proven
problematic, due to video glitches of various sorts. I'm working on
tracking down a copy of an early 2011 MacBook Pro restore disk, which
allegedly is the same hardware as the Mini, and will do a functional
downgrade, but won't know if that actually works for at least a day,
if not next week.

So I'm trying to figure out what real world issues folks have run into
with 10.7 on production QLab machines. I've held off on my personal
machine, but mostly for a few stragglers that require Rosetta.

Nothing QLab specific, more general audio things that have popped up in supporting other software on Lion from a development standpoint make me very wary of using it myself.  IIRC the audio system got redesigned in Lion and from a development standpoint has required a bit of work to support well for the projects I am involved with.  As I said, I am wary of using it myself given that and have not upgraded any of my systems at this time.  I have some systems at the uni I teach at on Lion that have been having fun with 'glitches' in various software ranging from video servers to DAWs (PT etc.) despite supposedly being supported.  I haven't had time to track them down and find the causes but given my experience on the other side of the development fence I can see where fun things can happen.

    Thomas