[QLab] LX control
Freddy Komp
Just a quick question, as I've been out of the loop for a while - sorry
if this is doubling up on previously covered grounds...
Basically I'm fed up with sourcing lighting boards for small/medium
sized gigs... tonight I have to run a show on a stage12 again ^^... yes.
manual scene fades. great.
What in the opinion&experience of the list would be a
- stable
- user-friendly
- qlab-compatible (i.e. via virtual MIDI)
- Mac-OS based
- ressource-friendly
Mac to DMX solution that could co-exist with Qlab on my 2nd Gen MacBook
Pro 3.06GHz 4GB RAM without putting too much load on the machine
(annoying QLab in the process)? Is that at all possible? Or is lighting
control software necessarily a ressource killer?
I'm obviously keen to avoid bringing in two laptops, but if need be I've
got a decent Acer that might be able to double up.
BTW, I am willing to invest a little into this, obviously for a decent
hardware - if it's reliable - and, if need be, for the software as well
- it's tax return time in Australia :)!
Thanks for your thoughts & have a good day!
Freddy
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Moving lights?
Re: hardware
Enttec makes the DMX USB Pro which I've personally used for more than 2
years. Rock solid.
Enttec makes the ODE which is a IP based DMX box. One of the theaters I
support has 2 of them. They both act as outputs on the same universe so
when we need to control something besides the main ETC rack, we just send
it out of the second ODE. Rock solid.
Obviously, the DMX USB Pro needs to be close to the computer where as the
ODE can be just about anywhere on a network.
There is other hardware out there but it appears that most of the free dmx
control applications support the Enttec stuff. So it must be pretty
universal.
Re: applications native to OSX
There are some Mac based options. Enttec DMXIS is an option which is a
hardware / software package. I have it & it's cool for some things but I
prefer LF2 on my PC since I've been using it for so long.
I have successfully controlled DMXIS via QLab midi cues.
There are some free software applications & I think they'll all work with
the Enttec DMX USB Pro. Not sure about ODE compatibility.
So that's one good reason to get a Enttec DMX USB Pro. It will work with
just about anything & it's tried & true.
Re: Resource use of DMX software
I've seen relatively no resource use by Light Factory 2. The work space
files are database files & I've run LF2 on all sorts of old as dirt PCs
with no issues. I think as long as you have a working XP or newer PC, it
will probably work. I've run it on barebones PCs with stock ram. No
issues.
I've had a LF2 / Enttec rig with me for almost 3 years now & I highly
recommend it to anyone who wants to control lights without a light board.
Yeah, you will be using a PC but...
Word is that LF2 will be ported to Mac by the end of the year. So if you
were to make your Acer your LF2 machine & you bought either the Enttec DMX
USB Pro or the ODE, either should work with LF2 for mac when it comes out.
I would hope that if you have a LF2 license, you can move it from a PC to
a Mac when the time comes. Martin is a Mac user so he understands the
desire himself.
LF2 comes in a few variations. 512,1024,10,240, etc... but recently they
started offering 256 channel version for less than a full 512 license.
You could do is download LF2 (if you want to) & see if you like the
interface. If so, just add the hardware of choice & get the license for
the amount of dimmers you want to control.
When I went hunting for a non light board DMX control option, I downloaded
every demo that I could find at the time & quickly gravitated to LF.
I think Martin told me that he has been using LF2 via Parallels on his Mac
so that might an option. If you are interested in knowing more about that,
email:
"Martin Searancke" <mar...@lifact.com>
Since both Enttec & LF are on your side of the pond, maybe you get a much
better deal that we do in the US.
If you have questions about anything, email me off list.
*
On Thu, August 19, 2010 10:31 pm, Freddy Komp wrote:
> What in the opinion&experience of the list would be a
> - stable
> - user-friendly
> - qlab-compatible (i.e. via virtual MIDI)
> - Mac-OS based
> - ressource-friendly
> Mac to DMX solution that could co-exist with Qlab on my 2nd Gen MacBook
Pro 3.06GHz 4GB RAM without putting too much load on the machine
(annoying QLab in the process)? Is that at all possible? Or is lighting
control software necessarily a ressource killer?
> I'm obviously keen to avoid bringing in two laptops, but if need be I've
got a decent Acer that might be able to double up.
> BTW, I am willing to invest a little into this, obviously for a decent
hardware - if it's reliable - and, if need be, for the software as well
- it's tax return time in Australia :)!
Roland van Meel
As mentioned by rabyn you shout go for the Enttec DMX Pro or ODE, stable, reliable, and affordable.
I run on my MacBook the free lighting program MagiqQ by Chamsys flawless for several yours now ,
Chamsys runs on OSX, Linux and Windows,( eq. you can make the show on your MAC and run it on a Window Laptop) is capable of running a media-server, possibility of sending out 18 universes dmx, built-in movinghead support and so on. Can be triggered with MSC cues or send MSC cues to trigger QLAB ( you need a Chamsys MIDI devices though). And if you have unlimited resources you can buy yourself some nice Chamsys hardware. And what made me decide to use it, they have a wonderfull QLAB kind of support.
The only setback is that it will take you some time to get familiar with the program, it looks like a mix of Wholehog 2 and ETC programming.
But than the hack, give it a try read the manual, stroll the Chamsys.be forum and if you don't like it skip it.
Sorry i'am not a Chamsys shareholder but a happy user ;-]
Best regards
Roland
Jeremy Lee
On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Freddy Komp wrote:
> Or is lighting control software necessarily a ressource killer?
--
Jeremy Lee
Sound Designer, NYC - USA 829
http://www.jjlee.com
Paul Gotch
> Don't forget that the Obsession was basically a 486 computer with a
> fancy control surface!
Ditto the Strand 500 series, although that was Pentium iirc.
The Windows based desks such as the ETC Ion and Eos seem to run on
vastly faster hardware but go like treacle compared to a 500 series.
People don't seem to write efficient software anymore :/
-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard B. Ingraham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com [mailto:qlab-
> bou...@lists.figure53.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gotch
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:43 AM
> To: ql...@lists.figure53.com
> Subject: Re: [QLab] LX control
>
> The Windows based desks such as the ETC Ion and Eos seem to run on
> vastly faster hardware but go like treacle compared to a 500 series.
> People don't seem to write efficient software anymore :/
The user interface is what requires the most computing horse power in most
software. It's all the screen updates and visual displays that consume the
CPU cycles for most lighting and sound applications. Video obviously
requires the most computing power but it's basically the same thing, making
the computer update a screen, it's just that the audience gets to see that
screen.
The audio streaming takes up a small fraction of the power of a modern
computer, unless you're talking about ridiculous numbers of tracks. And a
few universes of DMX is even less unless you want to update all those
channels at some extremely ridiculous speed.
Richard B. Ingraham
RBI Computers and Audio
http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
Paul Gotch
> The user interface is what requires the most computing horse power in most
> software. It's all the screen updates and visual displays that consume the
> CPU cycles for most lighting and sound applications. Video obviously
> requires the most computing power but it's basically the same thing, making
> the computer update a screen, it's just that the audience gets to see that
> screen.
Most of the compute in video goes in decompression of the stream.
Getting it to the framebuffer just a problem in DMA and you either have the
bandwidth or you don't. The same applies to audio, for compressed
tracks you run out of CPU way before you run out of hard disk transfer
rate.
Drawing user interfaces is generally very highly optimised and done by
OS libraries, providing the data to draw the UI is usually what slows
it down. Usually due to people having synchronous interfaces between
the backend logic of a program and the UI.
As far as I remember an Eos is really a dual processor Xeon box running
embedded Windows XP, the interface is really actually quite simple as
these things go. For example drawing something like Photoshop's UI is
*far* harder and runs acceptably fast on slower hardware.
-p
(With his JIT compiler author hat on)
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Larsen
As another option, check out the Lanbox LCX, It's not instantly user-
friendly but It definitely fits all your other criteria. You create
your show in LCedit+ with the box connected, and then from there on
all the processing is done in the box (with or without your mac
connected). Triggering with msc from QLab works brilliantly. I got
mine for just over NZ$1000. The latest LCX firmware also deals Artnet
in and out if that interests you.
- r
Freddy Komp
Thanks for your awesome input, brilliant! Will look into those as soon
as the check comes! Excited :)!
f.
Freddy Komp
Thanks for your detailed answer! I went ahead and based on your tips did
some research into the softwares out there...
It almost seems as if DMXIS might even be enough for what I need to do,
but since you have been using both devices (hardware), can you tell me,
- can one use DMXIS with DMX USB Pro (and, if so, can one obtain a
(legal) copy of DMXIS software for cheaper?) - the reason I'm asking is
obviously to get the better hardware, but to start off with a seemingly
easier software that seems to play nicely with Qlab
- alternatively, is the DMXIS hardware close enough to the DMX USB Pro,
allowing you to use it with all the other software like it's big brother?
- also, can you program DMXIS in a similar way to the ETC express (some
sort of command line format, i.e. "channel 54 at 30 enter", "cue 56
record enter release", etc... doesn't have to be the same syntax, but is
there any other short-cut-based way apart from either your mouse or MIDI
faders?)
And when you said that DMXIS works for some things, but you preferred...
what were the limitations that you came across? I tried downloading the
software, but I don't think there's a demo - just an updater for
existing ones...
unfortunately, I don't own parallels (yet), so running QLAB and LF2 at
the same time might prove a challenge... but I'll try it on my PC side
to see how it works...
Still a little undecided, as you can see :)... DMXIS does seem tempting,
because I rarely control more than 48 channels at a time, haven't really
worked with moving lights, so basically I'm just looking for a stable
solution I can run integrated on my machine alongside qlab to save me
the pains of dragging i.e. the ETC Express 24/48 with me to a gig.
*
> Hey rabyn,
> Thanks for your detailed answer! I went ahead and based on your tips did
some research into the softwares out there...
> It almost seems as if DMXIS might even be enough for what I need to do,
but since you have been using both devices (hardware), can you tell me, -
can one use DMXIS with DMX USB Pro (and, if so, can one obtain a (legal)
copy of DMXIS software for cheaper?) - the reason I'm asking is obviously
to get the better hardware, but to start off with a seemingly easier
software that seems to play nicely with Qlab
LF2 has full midi support & the midi part of the program is getting better
& better by the week since people are requesting midi features & updates.
So no worry about LF2 playing nice with Qlab. I'm actually working on a
Qlab workspace file (to be shared) that will have 101 midi / LF cues
already programmed & tested. You'll just have to build your cues in LF &
then do a little setup work on both ends.
> - alternatively, is the DMXIS hardware close enough to the DMX USB Pro,
allowing you to use it with all the other software like it's big brother?
It s my understanding that the DMXIS hardware IS a DMX USB PRO but with a
DMXIS hardware key that lets DMXIS know it's there. It shows up in LF2 as
an accepted device so I would presume it will work with LF2 (don't have
anything to control with it at home.)
What you don't get with the DMXIS hardware that you do get with the
standard Enttec DMX USB Pro is the option of using it as an input in LF2.
DMXIS hardware is currently output only. Maybe this will change in the
future.
> - also, can you program DMXIS in a similar way to the ETC express (some
sort of command line format, i.e. "channel 54 at 30 enter", "cue 56 record
enter release", etc... doesn't have to be the same syntax, but is there
any other short-cut-based way apart from either your mouse or MIDI
faders?)
First off, based on what you've already said, you will want LF2. There is
no current command line for DMXIS but for LF2, yes. LF2 can do just about
anything that any light board or other software can & do it really well. I
think it's actually more flexible because Martin continues to offer
options that let it emulate different era's & types of boards. So if you
liked the "ETC blah blah blah" you can get LF to act like it (in the way
things happen when you program & run cues).
> And when you said that DMXIS works for some things, but you preferred...
what were the limitations that you came across? I tried downloading the
software, but I don't think there's a demo - just an updater for
existing ones...
Just think of DMXIS as being for musicians that don't know anything about
programming lights. DMXIS doesn't try to cover the same ground that a
lighting board used in a theater does. So it's simple, effective &
streamlined for musicians who want to trigger their own lighting. DMXIS
can certainly do more but it's up to the user to figure it out. Where as
LF2 is ready to do theater / FOH lighting without making any excuses. Add
Enttec IP based wings & you've got an even better system that acts like a
regular lighting console. I haven't used them bu I'm sure they're great
for people who are turned off by the lack of buttons / knobs. LF2 can
accept DMX input (via a second device) from any DMX source so you can
always use your ETC for programming.
Here is the actual download for DMXIS,
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=70570&show=downloads
Play with it & see what you think. I like it. The beauty of DMXIS is that
it can be run via AU/VST/etc... so you can control your lights from inside
a DAW easily. If Qlab ever supports AU, DMXIS will be an even better
option for Qlab users.
> unfortunately, I don't own parallels (yet), so running QLAB and LF2 at
the same time might prove a challenge... but I'll try it on my PC side to
see how it works...
> Still a little undecided, as you can see :)... DMXIS does seem tempting,
because I rarely control more than 48 channels at a time, haven't really
worked with moving lights, so basically I'm just looking for a stable
solution I can run integrated on my machine alongside qlab to save me the
pains of dragging i.e. the ETC Express 24/48 with me to a gig.
I feel for you & it sounds like what you really need is just an old LF1 50
license (they sold it with 36/50 channel options for very little money in
a bundle with Enttec hardware). Maybe you can find one on Craig's list:)
I think the cost of a LF1-36 (there was nothing wrong with it for what I
did) 36 channel was almost free when you bought a Enttec box. Maybe $50 by
itself. When Cooper Tools bought out LF, they canned LF1 soon after but
gave a great upgrade path.
Re: Stability
Honestly, software & a PC/MAC will probably never be as
"stable" as a dedicated device (light board, CD player, etc) because there
are so many variables & with software, people who want new features &
changes cause the working version to break along the path & so a device
that can't change is more stable until it breaks (IMHO).
So if you want to know that your covered, I still think a light board is a
good way to go. In the case of the theater that I support, they ran a
whole season on an old DELL running both SFX 5.6 & LF1 & probably had more
issues with the operator not knowing how to use a computer than the
software / hardware itself.
The following season, they purchased (2) new cheap Toshiba's (so we could
have a backup) & we got (2) ODEs & the old DMX USB Pro became an input for
their old ETC console. When designers come in, it's nice to be able to put
the console in front of them & just record the looks they make. We also
give them control of LF2 (via the second laptop, wifi & screensharing) so
the designer doesn't have to sit in the booth.
Relatively stable & certainly more flexible & compact than their old light
board. Moving light & LED RGB fixtures friendly. A huge library of
fixtures already in LF2 with more being added all the time.
So I can't bad mouth a real board or DMXIS but I can also say that LF2 &
it's programming (Martin) are to lighting what Qlab & Figure 53 are to
audio & video playback. I've had weekend support calls returned from
Martin & he's in Auckland, New Zealand. He wrote me via the user list
during his honeymoon to answer one of my first tech questions!!! Maybe
Chris & Martin are cousins:)
If it were me, I'd buy a Enttec DMX USB Pro:
& a LF2-50 (256 channels) for $199
http://files.lifact.com/LightFactory_Setup.exe
& use the Aser for the moment via MIDI & QLab. Then when LF2 comes out for
Mac, you'll be ready & hopefully can transfer your license to the Mac.
Hopefully, by then, Qlab has a TELNET cue & maybe even a LF2 cue & you can
run one machine with no additional wires or hardware (other than the
Enttec box).
In the mean time, I would strongly suggest you download LF2 on your PC.
See if it makes sense to you. That's why I went with it over other non
light board options. Because I immediately liked the interface & the
support I got when I asked questions. Jeremy @ Enttec USA, is also great &
he's steered me thru all sorts of obstacle courses along the way to where
I am. So I think Enttec / LF are a winning combination period. DMXIS is
cool too for the right application.
Best Regards,
*