[QLab] adjust the volume of all cues with one knob sensor
Calliope Georgousi
I am interested in providing 1 knob sensor to adjust the volume level of all my video cues, this sensor hooked to digitizer>Emagic MT4 MIDI and can succesfully capture control changes.
Would you have any idea how to do this please?
Kind regards
Calliope Georgousi
BSc Multimedia Technology & Design
Brunel University, Uxbridge
Room 2
Block E
Flat 46
Isambard Complex
UB8 3FG
UK
www.calliopemuse.co.uk
Mob tel: +44 7564 042023
skype name: calliope8
*
I can't help you with your described method but I can tell you a much
easier way...
Route the audio outputs from your Qlab rig to an Ashly VCM-88C - 8 channel
VCA.
With a single 10k linear pot / fader wired to the master volume control
input, you can control all 8 channels discretely over a single 3 conductor
cable.
In my case, I just bought the Ashly RD-8C which has 8 channel faders plus
ON/OFF for each channel. It also has a master fader with ON/OFF.
Not a cheap option but rock solid.
Hopefully someone can help you with the way you want to do it.
*
On Thu, March 18, 2010 8:13 pm, Calliope Georgousi wrote:
> Dear QLab support
>
> I am interested in providing 1 knob sensor to adjust the volume level of
> all
> my video cues, this sensor hooked to digitizer>Emagic MT4 MIDI and can
> succesfully capture control changes.
>
> Would you have any idea how to do this please?
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Calliope Georgousi
I appreciate your prompt reply, however at this stage there is lack of time and money,as I am performing tomorrow.
I am considering two solutions:
"one cue to rule them all" is quite interesting idea. If I could have 1 cue to rule all the audio of my video cues (that is what I have mostly, as you can see in the screenshot attached)
- http://figure53.com/wiki/index.php?title=Script_-_Set_levels_with_MIDIPipe
- Group all my cues together and use a fader cue maybe?
Calliope Georgousi
BSc Multimedia Technology & Design
Brunel University, Uxbridge
Room 2
Block E
Flat 46
Isambard Complex
UB8 3FG
UK
www.calliopemuse.co.uk
Mob tel: +44 7564 042023
skype name: calliope8
Rich Walsh
> I am interested in providing 1 knob sensor to adjust the volume
> level of all my video cues, this sensor hooked to digitizer>Emagic
> MT4 MIDI and can succesfully capture control changes.
>
> Would you have any idea how to do this please?
If you only need it for 30 days (and you're working on a not-for-
profit show) you could download the demo version of Live, route your
audio through Live via Soundflower and use MIDI control of Live's
faders. Or, buy the cheapest version of Live, or something like
MainStage or Rax, and do the same thing.
Depending on how many cues you are controlling at once you may also be
able to use a variation on Filip Vandueren's:
http://figure53.com/wiki/index.php?title=Script_-_Set_levels_with_MIDIPipe
Rich
Rich Walsh
> • Group all my cues together and use a fader cue maybe?
A Fade Cue targeting a Group Cue (or indeed the whole cue list) is
only going to be able to make relative adjustments, which aren't going
to map well to an absolute CC value. Also, a Fade Cue is going to need
to run to have any effect.
What's the interface? Can you grab control of a master fader there (in
AMS, for example)? You won't be able to map it to MIDI (unless you've
got something fancy like a Metric Halo box), but it might be simpler
than trying to do it within QLab.
You could make two relative Fade Cues in a separate cue list,
targeting the main cue list; set one to fade up by, say +2.5dB over
1s, and the other to fade down. Set them to trigger on the extremes of
the CC values. You could then nudge levels up and down by banging the
controller to either end of its travel, and then wiggling it.
Even more complicated, use a Goto Cue loop to retrigger each of those
cues after 1s; make another cue that stops those Goto Loops when the
CC value is at mid-point. Then, if you put the controller to full the
level will keep fading up until you return the controller to the
middle (or you run out of headroom); likewise it will fade down if you
go to the bottom. You might want a few such stop cues with different
CC value triggers so you don't have to hit exactly 64 to stop the
fade. Does that make sense?
Calliope Georgousi
thus far I have put a MIDI input under pipes and the AppleScript and I pasted the script into the MidiPipe AppleScript trigger it says compiled, so how would I connect it to my cues? What's next like?
-Do I use MIDI cue or a MIDI SysEx?
BSc Multimedia Technology & Design
Brunel University, Uxbridge
Room 2
Block E
Flat 46
Isambard Complex
UB8 3FG
UK
www.calliopemuse.co.uk
Mob tel: +44 7564 042023
skype name: calliope8
On 19 Mar 2010, at 01:13, Calliope Georgousi wrote:
I am interested in providing 1 knob sensor to adjust the volume level of all my video cues, this sensor hooked to digitizer>Emagic MT4 MIDI and can succesfully capture control changes.
Would you have any idea how to do this please?
If you only need it for 30 days (and you're working on a not-for-profit show) you could download the demo version of Live, route your audio through Live via Soundflower and use MIDI control of Live's faders. Or, buy the cheapest version of Live, or something like MainStage or Rax, and do the same thing.
Steve Devino
Steve Devino (mobile)
Rich Walsh
> I am going to go for the MIDIpipe option then, I am actually half
> way through, if only I had more detailed as to how to use it....
1. Make sure you start from a blank MIDIPipe file with no pipes
already on the pop-up list
2. Double-click "Midi in"; adjust the input to match where your MIDI
is coming from
3. Double-click "AppleScript Trigger"; select all the text therein and
paste this modified script (check that it has actually stuck, too -
your screenshot shows the default text):
(* script by Filip Vandueren *)
(* modified for 1 controller *)
on runme(message)
tell application "QLab"
set myVal to (item 3 of message) / 127
if (item 1 of message = 176) and (item 2 of message = 0) then
set mySel to selected of workspace 1
repeat with myCue in mySel
if q type of myCue is "Audio" or q type of myCue is "Fade" then
myCue setLevel row 0 column 0 db ((myVal ^ (1 / 3)) * 132) - 120
end if
end repeat
end if
end tell
end runme
4. Either set your MIDI controller to send CC 0 on channel 1, or
adjust the values in the first if clause to match what it is sending
(the 176 & 0).
5. Open QLab, select the cue you wish to adjust, move your controller
and the Master level of that cue should move too.
Alternatively, this is what I was describing with the fade cues:
Rich Walsh
...some blithering nonsense about looping fades.
There is no need to create the loops I pictured, as if you want a 10s
fade make a 10s fade, don't loop a 1s fade 10 times! You can always
stop the fade after 1s.
So, Q101 & Q102 just need to be longer fades (over more level) - not
groups and loops. You could then go to an extreme and create a cue for
every value of the CC, with each cue fading up or down at different
rates (eg: have 20dB/s from 0-31 & 96-127, 10dB/s from 32-47 & 80-95,
1dB/s from 48-55 & 72-79 and stop from 56-71). You'd need each cue to
stop all the others in the cue list, which would best be done with a
script.
Steven Devino
Andy Dolph
though. I would love to have one or more master faders in Qlab that
would be after the cue's output. Mostly I'd just want one master
fader that would control all of the outputs together, but I could
think of situations where it would be useful to make a few outputs
independent of this "grand master"
Midi control of it would be ideal, but not totally necessary.
yes - I know this can be done with certain interfaces, or by going
through a console. But I'd love to have it right in qlab.
Andy
Christopher Ashworth
> I would love to have one or more master faders in Qlab that
> would be after the cue's output. Mostly I'd just want one master
> fader that would control all of the outputs together, but I could
> think of situations where it would be useful to make a few outputs
> independent of this "grand master"
Not sure I follow... sounds like you're describing the audio device
levels, which already exist?
If not, where in the signal flow would these additional faders live?
i.e. where in this handy graph from Jason:
http://figure53.com/qlab/tutorials/2-1.php
(Or maybe you mean that you want something that can be adjusted by a
cue?)
Dave Tosti-Lane
that would apply a fade to everything that is running without the need to
actually specify all the individual cues to target.
So, if I had just run a sequence of 12 cues and at a given point in time all
12 are still running at various levels, my grand master cue would go to the
output side and affect all audio outputs - ignoring the individual input
levels of the running cues.
This would allow a global fade to zero, or a global fade down in level -
kind of like a voice-over duck - and would also allow a global restore back
to running levels. All without changing the settings on the individual cues,
which would continue to run during the event. It would be just like grabbing
a VCA on a console that was assigned to all active channels and sliding it
down so that all levels were lowered, but the relative levels were all
maintained, and could be restored.
Dave Tosti-Lane
On FridayMar/19,FridayMar/19:1145 AM 11:45 AM, "Christopher Ashworth"
Sean Dougall
in the Edit Device dialog) -- but affecting all devices simultaneously,
and in a cue rather than a preferences dialog. Does that sound right?
Sean
Dave Tosti-Lane wrote:
> I think what's being asked for is a grandmaster - the ability to have a cue
> that would apply a fade to everything that is running without the need to
> actually specify all the individual cues to target.
>
> So, if I had just run a sequence of 12 cues and at a given point in time all
> 12 are still running at various levels, my grand master cue would go to the
> output side and affect all audio outputs - ignoring the individual input
> levels of the running cues.
>
> This would allow a global fade to zero, or a global fade down in level -
> kind of like a voice-over duck - and would also allow a global restore back
> to running levels. All without changing the settings on the individual cues,
> which would continue to run during the event. It would be just like grabbing
> a VCA on a console that was assigned to all active channels and sliding it
> down so that all levels were lowered, but the relative levels were all
> maintained, and could be restored.
>
> Dave Tosti-Lane
>
Rich Walsh
You can sort of achieve that at the moment by using a relative Fade
Cue targeting the whole cue list(s), but with two caveats:
1. Any cues you trigger after the fade aren't going to be at the new
dipped level.
2. Once you go down to -INF on a relative fade there's no way to get
back up again.
It could be a useful creative tool to be able to modify the output
matrix on the fly by adjusting the Edit Device settings with a Fade
Cue: imagine being able to evolve a complex bus mix into different
speakers without having to modify every component cue. For example,
say you have a tank sound effect comprising engine, exhaust, tracks,
turret, etc and you need to pan it en masse around the theatre: you
could make a stereo mix and then pan the mix by editing the
crosspoints in the Edit Device window rather than panning each
component individually. Then, you could finesse the underlying mix to
change the balance between the various noise generators as the tank
object passes. I don't think you could achieve this with a group fade,
but I may have overlooked something.
Rich
sam kusnetz
On Mar 19, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Andy Dolph wrote:
> I would love to have one or more master faders in Qlab that
> would be after the cue's output. Mostly I'd just want one master
> fader that would control all of the outputs together, but I could
> think of situations where it would be useful to make a few outputs
> independent of this "grand master"
Chris Ashword responded:
> Not sure I follow... sounds like you're describing the audio device
> levels, which already exist?
if i may, i believe that andy is indeed speaking of those exact faders. but what i (and i think other folks?) are saying is, those faders are right now buried in a preference window and are not dynamically adjustable during the run of a show, at least not in any simple manner.
> If not, where in the signal flow would these additional faders live?
>
> i.e. where in this handy graph from Jason:
>
> http://figure53.com/qlab/tutorials/2-1.php
that is a handy graph indeed! and in my book, we're talking about the last stage before the audio hardware, labeled "audio device output routing"
so i see two options, and i want to vote in favor of *both* of them.
option 1: allow midi access to the output routing window. hook up my HUI or whatever, and have eight motorized faders with which i can page through qlab's 48 output masters... sooo nice.
and option 2, you suggested yourself:
> (Or maybe you mean that you want something that can be adjusted by a
> cue?)
bingo! and i refer you to my ticket #435...
http://tracker.figure53.com/qlab/ticket/435
nothing but a fade cue that targets the output routing. hugely, hugely powerful. you don't need it often, but when you do need it, nothing else will do.
cheerio
sam
*
A movable window with one big "grand fader & grand mute" to ride the level
if need be in tech & mute if necessary. Midi controllable would be great
too but at least some sort of visual fader to grab on screen for those who
don't have midi controllers.
In my situation, I'm always at the tech table in the hall & my op & rig is
alway behind glass in a booth.
As an example, Light Factory has what I have described (see attachment).
The GM level is NOT saved or recorded in a cue. It's independent.
I've also noted the dimmer wheel which might make setting levels more
mouse / touch pad friendly. It actually rolls instead of sliding.
*
Andy Dolph
> option 3:
>
> A movable window with one big "grand fader & grand mute" to ride the level
> if need be in tech & mute if necessary. Midi controllable would be great
> too but at least some sort of visual fader to grab on screen for those who
> don't have midi controllers.
Yes - this is exactly what I'm looking for - something I can grab
quickly during tech to make everything quieter without pausing or
stopping the cues.
Andy
Rich Walsh
>A movable window with one big "grand fader & grand mute" to ride the level
>if need be in tech & mute if necessary. Midi controllable would be great
>too but at least some sort of visual fader to grab on screen for those who
>don't have midi controllers.
If such a control could be queried for its level via AppleScript then you could write a script that could update all active cues with the global change you just applied. However, in order to avoid the active cues list changing before you ran the script, it would be good if the "grand fader" could hold its own internal list of the cues that were active last time it was touched.
Rich
Steven Devino
In addition it is my belief that should someone want to automate fades on all channels at a master level via cue or script there are several existing methods to do this in QLAB now which are quite handy including fading Group cues and or fading a Cue List (which is another form of Group cue if I understand correctly.
If the desire is to have a "finger on the button" so to speak then scripts and cues are not part of the solution IMO.
Also it is my opinion that live sound should always be accomplished with the minimum number of systems and complexity necessary to do the task reliably. The shorter the tech week the simpler it should be (in general).
So to have a manual over ride you have a few choices:
1. Routing QLAB outputs through an external mixer or matrix with VCA control.
2. Using a FW interface that facilitates a multichannel or matrix master such as the Metric Halo Mobile I/O's.
3. Creating a MIDI or key command controllable master DCA control in QLAB such that its control can be managed using any kind of programmable, mouse, Contour Express or Trackball or remote USB fader. The caveat here is that mouse controllers or USB that are not running MIDI need to remain active when QLAB is not in the foreground. There is no reason to have this fader be controllable via cue command since we already have that capability.
Did I miss something?
Steve
Steven Devino
On Mar 19, at Mar 19, 2010 2:55 PM, Dave Tosti-Lane wrote:
> I think what's being asked for is a grandmaster - the ability to have a cue
> that would apply a fade to everything that is running without the need to
> actually specify all the individual cues to target.
>
We can do this now with any form of the fade cue. I normally apply my fades to just the master fader (every audio cue has a master fader all the way to the left of the screen). To accomplish an all channel fade simply set the fade and overall cue levels using the MAster. I only use the individual channel faders to set relative levels, I almost never fade the channels individually except as a special effect.
> So, if I had just run a sequence of 12 cues and at a given point in time all
> 12 are still running at various levels, my grand master cue would go to the
> output side and affect all audio outputs - ignoring the individual input
> levels of the running cues.
You can do this now by putting all of those 12 cues in a group and fading the group.
>
> This would allow a global fade to zero, or a global fade down in level -
> kind of like a voice-over duck - and would also allow a global restore back
> to running levels. All without changing the settings on the individual cues,
> which would continue to run during the event. It would be just like grabbing
> a VCA on a console that was assigned to all active channels and sliding it
> down so that all levels were lowered, but the relative levels were all
> maintained, and could be restored.
Like I said you can do this now with group cues and fades on a group cue.
For Example:
Group Cue - Jungle background
- Sound Cue - Birds (auto continue)
- Sound Cue - Bugs (auto continue)
- Sound Cue - Monkeys
End Group Cue
Fade Jungle background
The fade on Jungle background will fade all the sound cues running in the group.
Are you asking for something different?
Steve
Steven Devino
1. Any cues you trigger after the fade aren't going to be at the new dipped level.
2. Once you go down to -INF on a relative fade there's no way to get back up again.
Steven Devino
On Mar 21, at Mar 21, 2010 10:18 AM, Andy Dolph wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 8:43 PM, * <ra...@rabyn.com> wrote:
>> option 3:
>>
>> A movable window with one big "grand fader & grand mute" to ride the level
>> if need be in tech & mute if necessary. Midi controllable would be great
>> too but at least some sort of visual fader to grab on screen for those who
>> don't have midi controllers.
>
> Yes - this is exactly what I'm looking for - something I can grab
> quickly during tech to make everything quieter without pausing or
> stopping the cues.
Which I think means it should not be cue or script dependent in terms of work flow.
Steve
*
At least in theory, the Grand Master / Fader should NOT be programmable,
should have no affect on cues levels or fade levels (meaning doesn't
change the programming of them) & should default to 100% (either when the
window is closed or when Qlab is closed) so that sadness doesn't result
when someone forgets to restore the GM to 100% at the end of the day.
Being able to control the GM from midi or USB would be great too.
On every lighting console & lighting software package, the GM level is NOT
written into anything. You can program the entire show with the GM @ 0 if
you like.
In my mind, the GM would be a repeat of whats in the audio preferences
under device but would be larger, user friendly & would also have a MUTE
button.
Maybe also a PAUSE ALL / PLAY ALL buttons.
This way, the tech process can be easily adjusted from one place.
The GM level would be from 100$ to 0 with 100% being where ever the device
setting is in preferences & with 0 being where ever the infinity setting
is in preferences. It would also display where it's sitting...
-5
- 15
etc...
I can see how it would be nice to go into the 100% + range with the GM but
that opens up a whole other can of worms.
With my Ashly VCM88 system, I can actually add gain with its GM & also add
more gain with the individual channel faders so there is the danger of
overloading the next gain stage & not knowing it (until you hear it). In
the case of the Ashly, it can provide +20dB to -75dB Level Control.
*
On Sun, March 21, 2010 11:45 am, Steven Devino wrote:
> Which I think means it should not be cue or script dependent in terms of
> work flow.
Steven Devino
With my Ashly VCM88 system, I can actually add gain with its GM & also add
more gain with the individual channel faders so there is the danger of
overloading the next gain stage & not knowing it (until you hear it). In
the case of the Ashly, it can provide +20dB to -75dB Level Control.
Dave Tosti-Lane
single group would collapse the display in a way I would prefer not
to do.
I hadn't realized that the fade cuelist option was there - and that
could do what I was thinking of here.
But as Andy and Ra replied - I'm more interested I that non-cue
related "manual" control available for interfaces which don't have it
built-in. The ability to pull everything down like the GM on a light
board or vca/dca master on a console. This might make me comfortable
with a console free system on occasion.
Dave
Sent Fromm my shoe-phone
No? Would you believe...
Steven Devino
I'm already using group cues extensively - and having all cues in a
single group would collapse the display in a way I would prefer not
to do.
fk...@email.de
Just also putting my hand up for - and this is obviously a big request, so could be implemented part by part and/or at choice -
- MIDI and manual controllable GM display,
- preferably with numerical display (so that you see what you are doing) as well, and
- preferably with the mute button (and possibly other transport buttons for general pause/start), also controllable via MIDI (MSC or MIDI messages), maybe with a dedicated MIDI channel/device ID.
That way, the whole thing could be controlled via an external MIDI device by a sound person, without overcrowding the space where the OP sits. Just a thought.
Plus, if one then would want to review what happened, to adjust the "programmed" levels later, one could just record all MIDI commands for that period, play that MIDI track back in real time, and adjust ones show at home, if time in the theatre is not available (I'm sure there are MIDI logging utilities that could do that somehow, right?)
--
Kind regards,
--
Freddy Komp
40 Wadley St
Macgregor QLD 4109
mobile: +61 (0) 420 806 624
phone: +61 (0) 7 3102 3331
email: fk...@email.de