Qlab at 96k with rme MADI cards.

[Janne Sivonen]

Hello list. I have a project where two MacPros with RME HDSPe MADI FX cards are running as main/backup machines. The system is running at 96kHz.
Any advice/thoughts or experience with Qlab at 96kHz? Anyone using the rme MADI cards? I have used these with good results at 48 for some time but during the last couple of weeks there has been some strange issues with 96k.
The main machine is taking forever when initializing files. This is compared to the backup machine that has a identical setup and runs much smoother.
Crippled audio. Sounds like dropped frames or maybe the hard drive not being able to stream data fast enough. I actually had this problem last month with my macbookpro and a rme HDSPe MADI fx installed in one of those Sonnet thunderbolt boxes. I tried with different types of source files (sample rates, long/short files) but at 96k the sound was the same as when trying to stream too many sound files from the internal drive of the MacBook Pro. Playing the same files with preview or iTunes worked fine. Switching to 48k was also fine.
Ay ideas are welcome.
Best, Janne

[Christopher Ashworth]

On Apr 18, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Janne Sivonen <janne....@svenskateatern.fi> wrote:

Hello list. I have a project where two MacPros with RME HDSPe MADI FX cards are running as main/backup machines. The system is running at 96kHz.
Any advice/thoughts or experience with Qlab at 96kHz? Anyone using the rme MADI cards? I have used these with good results at 48 for some time but during the last couple of weeks there has been some strange issues with 96k.

FWIW, there was a bug in QLab for many years where it was not ever sending out anything higher than 44.1K… and no one noticed.  So…you might consider just running at 48K. :-)

The main machine is taking forever when initializing files. This is compared to the backup machine that has a identical setup and runs much smoother.
Crippled audio. Sounds like dropped frames or maybe the hard drive not being able to stream data fast enough. I actually had this problem last month with my macbookpro and a rme HDSPe MADI fx installed in one of those Sonnet thunderbolt boxes. I tried with different types of source files (sample rates, long/short files) but at 96k the sound was the same as when trying to stream too many sound files from the internal drive of the MacBook Pro. Playing the same files with preview or iTunes worked fine. Switching to 48k was also fine.
Ay ideas are welcome.

We'd be happy to take a look at the console logs if you'd like. You can send them to sup...@figure53.com

You can get the console logs as follows:

• Launch /Applications/Utilities/Console.app
• Click "All Messages"
• Export this as a file and attach a copy to your email.

Best,

Chris

[Janne Sivonen]

On Thursday, 18 April 2013, Christopher Ashworth wrote:

FWIW, there was a bug in QLab for many years where it was not ever sending out anything higher than 44.1K… and no one noticed.  So…you might consider just running at 48K. :-)

I guessed this would come up! Unfortunately this is a question about system compatibility. The system sample rate is set at 96k and we are running madi. Even suggesting a madi sample rate converter after the rme card would feel very silly... I don't want to discuss the reasons for using 96k as it would not get me anywhere. Also more and more digital desks are using 96k as the internal sample rate or the possibility to go to 96k and higher so I think this discussion will come up more frequently and you need to find a better answer ;)

 

We'd be happy to take a look at the console logs if you'd like. You can send them to sup...@figure53.com

Thanks! 

I will send them over once I get to the studio tomorrow! 

Best, 

Janne

--
Janne Sivonen
Ljudtekniker /Soundengineer /Ääniteknikko
janne....@svenskateatern.fi
+358 50 5924362
(+358 50 3716443)

Svenska Teatern
Norra Esplanaden 2
00130 Helsingfors
vaihde (+358) 9616211

[Christopher Ashworth]

On Apr 18, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Janne Sivonen <janne....@svenskateatern.fi> wrote:

On Thursday, 18 April 2013, Christopher Ashworth wrote:

FWIW, there was a bug in QLab for many years where it was not ever sending out anything higher than 44.1K… and no one noticed.  So…you might consider just running at 48K. :-)

I guessed this would come up! Unfortunately this is a question about system compatibility. The system sample rate is set at 96k and we are running madi. Even suggesting a madi sample rate converter after the rme card would feel very silly... I don't want to discuss the reasons for using 96k as it would not get me anywhere. Also more and more digital desks are using 96k as the internal sample rate or the possibility to go to 96k and higher so I think this discussion will come up more frequently and you need to find a better answer ;)

No problem, I didn't want to try to dodge the question, just wanted to mention a potentially easy solution.  However, it's good to know 96K is necessary and we'll try to help make sure it works!

Cheers,

Chris

[Jeremy Lee]

Most of the desks that do 96k also have the ability to SRC at the inputs, yes?  I know the Yamaha and Midas consoles do.  The Pro2 can't even be forced into 48k mode, but the AES I/O all have the ability to SRC.

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
 
Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
 

-- 

Jeremy Lee

    Sound Designer, NYC - USA 829

        http://www.jjlee.com

[Jens Bacher]

They might src on the aes, but not on madi. You need the Direct out tech. Madi.src to do that.

[Jeremy Lee]

That's interesting. I guess 56/ 64 channels of SRC is too much to ask at that stage...

On Apr 22, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Jens Bacher <jensb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> They might src on the aes, but not on madi. You need the Direct out tech. Madi.src to do that.
>

> --
> --
> Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
> http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
>
> Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
>

> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[Tiger Audio]

96K is unnecessary.  It's all marketing and a complete waste of bandwidth and money.  It's particularly useless for live events where the noise floor of the room itself would far outweigh any possible audible benefit a golden ears might pretend to think they hear in a studio environment.  I suggest every one just settle down and push back against this foolishness.  Fourier said all complex waves are created by the combination of simple sine waves of various frequencies, amplitudes, and phase.

http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

[Tiger Audio]

MADI is so old, it's no wonder it's not particularly flexible.  At least it's fairly reliable.

[Paul Gotch]

On Tue, Feb 02, 2016 at 08:36:09PM -0800, Tiger Audio wrote:
> 96K is unnecessary. It's all marketing and a complete waste of bandwidth
> and money.

It is a waste of bandwith but it's not a waste of money in some
situations.

In live situations where both the direct and indirect sound can be
heard the processing delay can be a factor. Now the delay across a
single piece of equipment such as a mixing desk even at 48K is not
going to be a problem. However once you have multiple bits of equipment
each with their own processing delay then it can become a problem.

I agree it's pointless in situations where there is no direct sound or
the direct sound can't be heard as even the cummulative delay at 48K is
likely to be insignificant.

However 96K is enough, no body needs 192K

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Speaking of processing delay - the original message appears to have been posted in April of 2013. If we're going to have this incessant instantaneous back and forth, I don't know how we can keep up! ;-)

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab

Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qlab/20160203144803.GE32630%40chiark.greenend.org.uk.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.